Dyp100 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 OH, Lorgar got turned like this: He got sad, and became shocked. When he recovered Kor told him to deny the Emperors teaching, and finding something deserving of worship, Erebus then told them of a Religion on one of the words they conquered or Lorgars "home" World pre-Emperor Religion, and enter Corruption to the Chaplin ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Unfortunatly each of the Primarchs have come to represent something in the Human Psyche. Lorgar has become the need in people to beleive in something. Look at todays religeons.I'll not go into detail as I'm sure I'll break plenty of forum rules id I do. To some people however, without beleif in God(s) life has no meaning. Aetheism is anathema to them. That and it was a really good plot hook, just another time the Emperor groomed his sons to fall ;) Disciple Very true about the Primarchs representing something in the Human Psyche. Its hard to determine some of them though! Corax, Vulkan, Khan, Ferrus Manus for example. Even Guilliman and Sangiunius could be hard to determine ;) ---- And yes i dont think we should downplay the fact that the majority of the Primarchs turned because of the Emperor's actions/mistreatment: Angron turned generally because the Emperor abducted him from his home planet and he was forced to watch his army of gladiators be slaughtered, Angron refused to even take command of the World Eaters legion for a long time, and never forgave the emperor. (also because of his implants he was a logical khorne worshipper) Horus Felt that the Emperor had betrayed him by leaving the Great Crusade without telling anyone why. Your father and Best friend who you had fought side by side with for hundreds of years, withdraws to the safety of Terra, without explaining, how would you feel?! Whispers began to spread of the Emperors selfishness wantin to achieve Godhood. He also had huge doubts of his ability to be Warmaster. Perturabo and his legion fought in the bloodiest of wars throughout the galaxy, being used as mere garrison troops was shaming for the Iron Warriors, while Perturabo seemed to fight in the bloodiest of sieges, he recieved next to no praise from the Emperor, whilst Dorn and Guilliman were publically hailed as great heroes. Magnus the Red was loyal to the Emperor and tried to warn him of Horus' betrayal, but instead of believing his son, he damned him, forcing him to turn to Chaos. Lorgar had his world ripped from him, when the Emperor reprimanded him. All he had known was crushed by the Emperor, he was obviously devastated, becoming ripe for corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Instrument Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Didn't Lorgar turn Horus? XD No, Erebus did. I just finished Horus Rising and have moved onto False Gods (going through the first eight books again) and everytime I read Erebus' name I just want to rip him out of the book and slam his head in the door :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd say Angron turned first depending on when he was found in relation to Lorgar being chastised. I remember reading somewhere that he pledged himself to Khorne in his rage and grief over what the Emperor had done and he took control of his Legion after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalfedan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Alpharius didn't side with Horus, not really. Yeah, because Alpharius is the good guy. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Didn't Lorgar turn Horus? XD No, Erebus did. I just finished Horus Rising and have moved onto False Gods (going through the first eight books again) and everytime I read Erebus' name I just want to rip him out of the book and slam his head in the door :angry: I've got the same feelings. Simply hate the guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Didn't Lorgar turn Horus? XD No, Erebus did. I just finished Horus Rising and have moved onto False Gods (going through the first eight books again) and everytime I read Erebus' name I just want to rip him out of the book and slam his head in the door I've got the same feelings. Simply hate the guy.... I have to admit even though im a follower of the true gods :P :P I didn't like Erebus either! - he was portrayed with that intention in mind i think, the author wants us to hate him :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I agree with everyone above, but it just proves hes well written...KINDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Kor Phaeron turned first I think, he then convinced Lorgar there were other Beings in the Universe who would accept his worship instead of the Big E.. After that, Kor Phaeron and Lorgar turned their legion.. then well.. we know what happened next.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Yes, as I said above: Lorgar sad, Kor says don't work for the Emperor and find things that deserve worship, and Erebus suggests Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 After that, Kor Phaeron and Lorgar turned their legion.. then well.. we know what happened next.. GW never explains why the deranged rites, rituals, and practices that are part and parcel of Chaos worship were accepted by Lorgar's Legion. It is one thing to believe Lorgar when he says (without any real evidence) that the Emperor has betrayed them, it is quite another to be convinced that the proper response to the alleged betrayal is to perform blood sacrifices and rip the eyes out of your serfs so they can't view your divine form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 It was probably a slow process. Lorgar tells them that the Chaos Gods are more deserving of their devotion. They praise the Chaos Gods. Lorgar and the other Chaplains discover that the Chaos Gods need more than just words when they are worshipped, so the Legion begins minor rituals and slowly they expand out to sacrifices and all the other nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispy the klown Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 After that, Kor Phaeron and Lorgar turned their legion.. then well.. we know what happened next.. GW never explains why the deranged rites, rituals, and practices that are part and parcel of Chaos worship were accepted by Lorgar's Legion. It is one thing to believe Lorgar when he says (without any real evidence) that the Emperor has betrayed them, it is quite another to be convinced that the proper response to the alleged betrayal is to perform blood sacrifices and rip the eyes out of your serfs so they can't view your divine form. more than likely he did a ritual to show themthat the chaos gods actuely exist and do reward you for your efforts to convince them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Khammon Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The Word Bearers are the first Legion who turned to Chaos. Then came the Sons of Horus. Angron and the World Eaters were the first Legion to side with Horus and his New Crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 actually, not to derail anybody, but Collect Vision states that Magnus was already looking into the Warp powers prior to the Emperor's arrival...he wasnt a servant of chaos, but a traitor to his promise to the EMperor. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I personally want to rip out Erebus' gene-seeds and feed them to him :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aastenu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would say Fulgrim, he was already striding away from the Imperial Truth after assigning Fabius Bile to alter the geneseed of the Emperor . Angron must have came second and after that Mortarion . However I think the first heretic must have been Lorgar who initiated Horus into the dark arts through his child Erebus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Well, it seems like it is very hard to find out. Legion, as well, yesh. Seems like the fates (AKA, Gods) were playing against are poor traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamafore Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Didn't Lorgar turn Horus? XD No, Erebus did. I just finished Horus Rising and have moved onto False Gods (going through the first eight books again) and everytime I read Erebus' name I just want to rip him out of the book and slam his head in the door :D I've got the same feelings. Simply hate the guy.... I have to admit even though im a follower of the true gods :P :P I didn't like Erebus either! - he was portrayed with that intention in mind i think, the author wants us to hate him ;) It worked. I'd of shot him halfway through the first book he was in. Btw why did Mortarion join with Horus in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 It worked. I'd of shot him halfway through the first book he was in. Btw why did Mortarion join with Horus in the first place? When Mortarion went after the last Warlord on Barbarus, he couldn't persue because the surroundings were too poisonous (sp?) even for him.. The Big E appeared and killed the warlord.. Apart from that I don't know if there were any other things.. Horus was Warmaster for a reason so I guess he kinda knew what to say.. Maybe he felt thet the Emperor had abandoned them when he retreated to Terra while they must keep on fighting for the Great crusade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 actually, not to derail anybody, but Collect Vision states that Magnus was already looking into the Warp powers prior to the Emperor's arrival...he wasnt a servant of chaos, but a traitor to his promise to the EMperor. WLK Again though traitor to a promise is one thing, actively plotting the demise of your leader something else entirely. No doubt Magnus believed in what he was doing, and that it would genuinely benefit himself and the crusade - even at the end when he had erred and accidentally removed the shielding around the golden throne, the Emperor still only called for him to be brought back to earth - It was Horus that altered this order and got Russ to attack instead. There are other examples of legions using their own interpretation of the rules - The Night Lords were going to be called to account for their actions in massacres, as were the World Eaters. However, there actions were in line with their legions personalities - you could no sooner ask them to change their modus operandi than you could change their fundamental nature. As far as these legions were concerned, they were still carrying out the will of the Emperor, albeit with a twist, even if they were beginning to become a pawn of chaos. For me, it comes down to intent. Erebus, Kor Phaeron, Lorgar and the Word Bearer's knew what they were doing, and that it would involve the destruction of the Emperor, and they actively pursued it. i don't think any of the other traitor legions I mention had this actively in mind until they were variously convinced by Horus or else ended up on the wrong side by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus lo volt Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Kor Phaeron turned first I think, he then convinced Lorgar there were other Beings in the Universe who would accept his worship instead of the Big E..After that, Kor Phaeron and Lorgar turned their legion.. then well.. we know what happened next.. We do indeed! Kor went to Ultramar and found out the "painful" way that a Gauntlet of Ultramar can fit up a Wordbearers back-side.... :) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Mortarion turned because he believed that martial strength should dictate who rules and Horus convinced him that the Emperor was weak and therefore undeserving of rule. Also Mortarion had a weird populist side that involved all men being free with the strongest among them as leaders and Horus promised him that their new Imperium would be egalitarian in this way, ironic that his legion because the iconic Slaves to Darkness. Also Perturabo turned not just because he felt he was being dishonored but that he actually believed that the Emperor would eventually betray him and that the rebellion on his planet was orchestrated by Rogal Dorn to create a pretense for him to be shamed and removed since he had served his purpose. This caused him to cull most of the planet in a rage at which point he had to turn. The irony of course is that the rebellion was caused by Perturabo's own adopted father who Perturabo overthrew and whose army he used to conquer the planet prior to the Emperor's arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Disciple Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 We do indeed! Kor went to Ultramar and found out the "painful" way that a Gauntlet of Ultramar can fit up a Wordbearers back-side.... :) :) Tell that to Calth mate. We'll be back with the full might of the Legion this time :huh: But yeah Erebus, I think Lorgar just sent him to get some peace from him. Kor Phaeron was definatly the first as far as we know, not sure about those two lost legions though. Disciple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Kor Phaeron turned first I think, he then convinced Lorgar there were other Beings in the Universe who would accept his worship instead of the Big E..After that, Kor Phaeron and Lorgar turned their legion.. then well.. we know what happened next.. We do indeed! Kor went to Ultramar and found out the "painful" way that a Gauntlet of Ultramar can fit up a Wordbearers back-side.... ;) :) Is there any way you can have a giant Powerfist shoved up your arse without it hurting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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