Seahawk Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 So in an upcoming club tournament a special rule allows me to take any non-HQ, non-tank unit as a Troops choice instead of it's normal FOC slot. I'm debating which army, but my Word Bearers might make an appearance. These are what I'm choosing between: a 10 man unit of terminators or a 15 man unit of havocs, with any weapon options available. Which would you do? Or is there a better choice? I figure the terminators because, well, having a big 2+/5+ unit as a Troops choice makes holding an objective fairly easy, while havocs being a scoring unit are finally worthwhile taking, sitting on a home objective and doing it's thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_wu Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Oblits would be cheesy as well. Raptors or bikes could work. I just laughed at thinking of scoring spawn which would not be worth taking. Havocs would be better if they are in a large unit. You could also do chosen. Wait I have the craziest and cheesiest idea scoring nurgle bikers. That is just evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 If you're being very competative, take a big unit of Nurgle Bikers, as doctor_wu said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would have to do the full unit of 10 termi's with 2 reapers, a couple of combimeltas , and a couple of CF/PF. Sure, somebody could math-hammer that unit apart, but math-hammer doesn't take coolness factor into consideration does it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would have to do the full unit of 10 termi's with 2 reapers, a couple of combimeltas , and a couple of CF/PF.Sure, somebody could math-hammer that unit apart, but math-hammer doesn't take coolness factor into consideration does it ? But he's playing in a tourney, so I doubt he'd want coolness over game effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh_perfesser Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 So in an upcoming club tournament a special rule allows me to take any non-HQ, non-tank unit as a Troops choice instead of it's normal FOC slot.We already get elites as troops with Zerks, Plague Marines, Noise Marines and Thousand Sons :D I'd do the Terminators. When they are scoring units, they become a completely different beast. Where they are really only good as minimum size Termicide units, with scoring added you'd want to run them completely opposite, in a large unit to Deep Strike on a objective, clear it and steal it in late turns. Set them up like a mixed Deathwing unit, capable of shooting and assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Yeah, I gotta go with large unit of Nurgle Bikers, give 'em 2 specials and a champ with a fist. They'll survive anything your opponent can throw at 'em, they can get wherever they're needed, and they'll hit hard when they get there. Pretty sweet deal! :) Other than that, best I can think of is a large unit of nurgle or tzeentch terminators. Deep-strike down, and damned if they're ever moving you from that spot. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would take a 3 man Oblit unit. We already have nice offensive scoring units, what we dont have is good longe range scoring units! (wel maybe the 5 man noise marine w/ blastmatser but I say meh to that one). Nurglebikers are too expensive, making them a troop choice doesnt change that fact, Oblits are already great so they will be even greater! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would take a 3 man Oblit unit. We already have nice offensive scoring units, what we dont have is good longe range scoring units! (wel maybe the 5 man noise marine w/ blastmatser but I say meh to that one). Nurglebikers are too expensive, making them a troop choice doesnt change that fact, Oblits are already great so they will be even greater! But they can easily get picked off by Lascannons ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Okay that comment really doesnt make any kind of sense to me... Just because Oblits can be killed now suddenly makes them a bad unit?? Oblits are one of the best things in the codex and almost every good 40k player will agree with me I guess. The lasscanon still has to hit, wound and you can take a 4+ cover save. And then you still got 2 left. And that fire wont go at your princes, rhinos or whatever units you have and are vulnerable to lasscanon fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Okay that comment really doesnt make any kind of sense to me... Just because Oblits can be killed now suddenly makes them a bad unit?? Oblits are one of the best things in the codex and almost every good 40k player will agree with me I guess. The lasscanon still has to hit, wound and you can take a 4+ cover save. And then you still got 2 left. And that fire wont go at your princes, rhinos or whatever units you have and are vulnerable to lasscanon fire. Who says you're gonna be in cover? Also, Devastator Squad with 4 Lascannons will toast the Obliterators - what's the point of taking them as Troops if they're gonna die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarRedsun Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 i like the idea of chosen. throw in 4 special weapons, and a power weapon champion. have them outflank, and you will easily drive any long range defense units sitting on objectives scared. thats just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd lean towards a big Terminator squad (or perhaps bikes) with either icon of nurgle or tzeentch. Hard to kill, large and scoring. Chosen for outflank could work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 lol Dev squad with 4 lasscanons, who takes that one?? One of the least competative choices there is. But I wont bite anymore after this, I should know better :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I wouldn't do Havocks, honestly they're basically the equivalent of normal CSMs other than the ability to spam heavy weapons. Terminators would make for a very tough objective camper and with a 10 man squad, most of the Icons are totally valid choices. Obliterators are also a good choice, a little bit expensive though for 3 of them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soshuro_tenchi Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Terminators would probably be the best option. They are the toughest unit you can get for a reasonnable point cost. But oblits as troops and scoring would be good because you already take them in your list so they would just get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janekk Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Who says you're gonna be in cover?Also, Devastator Squad with 4 Lascannons will toast the Obliterators - what's the point of taking them as Troops if they're gonna die? To put them on home objective, thus take cover saves and spam lascannons at range. Also beign armed with powerfists and nice array of short range weaponry they can hold it just fine against enemy troops. Squad of chosen in rhino would be quite nice. Arm them with 5 flamers and they can clear any objective with ease or outflank with them for suprise objective grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsoftaurus Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I wouldn't tweak stuff around too much just to take advantage of this rule and risk throwing the whole chemistry of your army off. With so many effective troop choices in the Chaos book already this doesn't benefit you as much as it could others. So I'd say either: A) just build your list as you would normally, then decide which of the other units you've picked you'd like to upgrade. or B ) decide which area you'd like to effectively have a free 'slot' for - like take a unit of Oblits as Troops as well as 3 HS slots of tanks/defilers/more oblits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 lol Dev squad with 4 lasscanons, who takes that one?? One of the least competative choices there is. But I wont bite anymore after this, I should know better :) Why does everything with you have to be so compe-- oh, right, you're one of those guys who supposedly lives in a land where you haven't heard of fun games. Back on topic, this may sound silly, but what about a large unit of Raptors? Now BA won't be the only army with Assault Marines as Troops :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 I don't have raptors :). I'm still leaning strongly toward havocs at the moment to fulfill a nice anti-horde dakka role in the form of 4 heavy bolters. Add that to a defiler and I feel I have my anti-horde pretty well set, while the havocs (as Troops) can sit on the home objective and score, also defending it, if need be, as well as a raptor squad. The two CSM squads will pull AT duty, with dual meltas and meltas on the rhinos, with a pair of obliterators as backup. Lastly, I feel a 4-man terminator unit with a heavy flamer led by Abaddon should make a nice mess of things, and make it easy to clear enemy objectives for my CSM squads. This is a 1500 pt tournament, and some mission objectives require your HQ killing the enemy HQ. He'll do it in style...I would like a 10 man terminator squad as troops and scrap the hoavcs, but that would decrease my long range fire base I like using. I know there will be at least one of each of these attending: Orks, Tau, Eldar, Daemons, Space Marines, and Space Wolves. Should I come up against the first 4, the havocs would be more valuable than the terminators. I do not prescribe to the jeske's or apparently zhukov's play style (though I like zhukov's perspective better sorry jeske :P); I go competitive and fun, not WAAC. There's something to be said for both, but I suppose I should've chucked that out there to begin with. A) just build your list as you would normally, then decide which of the other units you've picked you'd like to upgrade. This is great advice, and really it's what I'm doing, while also gathering opinions from other people. I just can't see how obliterators would ever be good as a Troops unit. In smaller games, like this 1500 list, they can only have 6 wounds max at a wimpy T4; too easy to smash, in my experience. I'd rather have them landing close and blowing tanks or somesuch, like a rich man's termicide squad. Or clear away hordes with flamers. In either case, they're in perfect place to die the next turn, so yea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I just can't see how obliterators would ever be good as a Troops unit. In smaller games, like this 1500 list, they can only have 6 wounds max at a wimpy T4; too easy to smash, in my experience. I'd rather have them landing close and blowing tanks or somesuch, like a rich man's termicide squad. Or clear away hordes with flamers. In either case, they're in perfect place to die the next turn, so yea... That's what I've been saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 i like the idea of chosen. throw in 4 special weapons, and a power weapon champion. have them outflank, and you will easily drive any long range defense units sitting on objectives scared. thats just me though. i agree here, outflanking a chosen unit ( in a rhino) and it being a scoring unit is probably a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I would beg to differ from the choices above. I declair a unit of 20 raptors with icon of nurgle. You can claim an objective and never let it go until you've swarmed it. Though if it had to be one, I would pick havocs and give them an icon of tzeentch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 why do some people come with choices which normally are totally NOT VALID. The whole game doesnt change suddenly now you can make 1 other unit scoring. But why are people thinking its so easy to kill 3 Obliterators?? Are some of your guys playing with no cover at all, and you only take low target priority units?? I normally play with 2 princes and 2 berzerkers in the least as offensive units. The enemy has to focus fire on them or else they destroy his army. My oblits ussually survive: 1. either cause they cannot be shot at if I block certain enemy fire lines with terrain or rhinos. Or: 2. the enemy doesnt have long range after turn 3 and they are still standing. Sure outlfanking or deepstriking units can still target them and probably remove them in the case of strong outflaking units (genestealers, Land raider with hammer termies), but this destroys other units too right?? How do you guys normally hold an objective if you think 3 oblits are destroyed easily? Putting 20 plague marines on it? I just dont get your points guys. Please come with good arguments. And please somebody else who agrees with me, help me haha :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 They're less survivable than a 6 man squad of Termies (ID), that's why we're saying they're gonna die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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