Pacific81 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Storm of Iron writes that the Iron Warriors were present at the seige of Terra. It makes mention of them being the ones to help crack the defences laid out by Dorn around the palace, and also that Forrix fought alongside Peturabo through the breach in the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 As far as I understand it, it was effectively White Scars, Imperial Fists, and Blood Angels against World Eaters, Death Guard and Iron Warriors. The Emperor's Children were mostly killing civilians and not really helping the siege, and the Sons of Horus were a "strategic reserve" (fancy word for cowards if you ask me). The Death Guard were most certainly present as they were tasked with holding the Lion's Gate Spaceport and had to fight White Scars over it, eventually being pushed back. The Iron Warriors besieged the walls, and along with the Legio Mortis (which was placed under Perturabo's command) breached the walls of the Imperial Palace. At this point the World Eaters and some Khornate titan legions stormed the breach over and over, taking huge casualties but slowing pushing back the loyalists. The Iron Warriors decided that their job was done and instead attacked the Imperial Fists fortress monastery on Terra, demolishing it with seismic charges and then basically disengaging. Oh and I think the Thousand Sons were in orbit and their sorcerers fought to a psychic standstill with various loyal psykers. This is from a White Dwarf from many years ago (7 or 8 now) so who knows, it might have been retconned by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 As far as I understand it, it was effectively White Scars, Imperial Fists, and Blood Angels against World Eaters, Death Guard and Iron Warriors. The Emperor's Children were mostly killing civilians and not really helping the siege, and the Sons of Horus were a "strategic reserve" (fancy word for cowards if you ask me). The Death Guard were most certainly present as they were tasked with holding the Lion's Gate Spaceport and had to fight White Scars over it, eventually being pushed back. The Iron Warriors besieged the walls, and along with the Legio Mortis (which was placed under Perturabo's command) breached the walls of the Imperial Palace. At this point the World Eaters and some Khornate titan legions stormed the breach over and over, taking huge casualties but slowing pushing back the loyalists. The Iron Warriors decided that their job was done and instead attacked the Imperial Fists fortress monastery on Terra, demolishing it with seismic charges and then basically disengaging. Oh and I think the Thousand Sons were in orbit and their sorcerers fought to a psychic standstill with various loyal psykers. This is from a White Dwarf from many years ago (7 or 8 now) so who knows, it might have been retconned by now. Remeber the Word Bearers were also present, or at least a contingent of them under Lorgar were (the rest having attacked Calth) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 This is from a White Dwarf from many years ago (7 or 8 now) so who knows, it might have been retconned by now. You are thinking of Index Astartes: The Siege of the Emperor's Palace. It's not been retconned, but probably will when the HH series gets to Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 many sources place the thousand sons there as well, using their sorcery to counter what defenses remained of the Imperial Palace. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Can I ask where you read that WL Kieran? the IA article for them doesn't mention it either way (other than Mgnus fought with Horus at Istvaan 5), and I always assumed the legion was effectively broken by the Space Wolves at Prospero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Chaos should have won the siege, but for the stupid lack of discipline of the Chaos forces. The Emperor's Children weren't helping at all, the Iron Warriors abandoned it during the crucial late stages, and the Sons of Horus didn't fully commit their forces. Horus was surely aware of the limited time he had to break the Palace's defenses, so unless we're to assume he was an idiot, the EC and IW legions simply ignored his explicit orders (and now hypocritically blame him for not winning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Can I ask where you read that WL Kieran? the IA article for them doesn't mention it either way (other than Mgnus fought with Horus at Istvaan 5), and I always assumed the legion was effectively broken by the Space Wolves at Prospero. the worst part is i cannot find my IA Thousand Sons article...but the Collected Visions states it in plain english, as does my pdf. Warhammer 40k Bible. i could have sworn i have read it elsewhere though...but the Collected Visions does state that the Thousand Sons were very understrength due to their parting gift from Russ. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Can I ask where you read that WL Kieran? the IA article for them doesn't mention it either way (other than Mgnus fought with Horus at Istvaan 5), and I always assumed the legion was effectively broken by the Space Wolves at Prospero. It's from Index Astartes: Siege of the Emperor's Palace. The Thousand Sons were used to breach the Inner Palace with sorcery, as the siege equipment was stuck outside the outer walls. However, the Blood Angels and Imperial Fist Librarians managed to counter their sorcery from their perch in the Sky Fortress. Apparently not many were there, as the legion was still scattered and disorganised, but Magnus was present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ufthak Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Having checked the Collected Visions and various internet "sources", i can conclude that ALL Legions were present in some form save -the Night Lords (moving around the Galaxy in a rabble leaving nothing but rubble), -the Alpha Legion (sent to nail White Scars and Space Wolves in place but only managing to stop the Space Wolves for a short period), -the Space Wolves (Bloodied by the fight against the Thousand Sons and stopped by the Alpha Legion long enough to not take part in the siege) -the Ultramarines (nailed in place by most of the Word Bearers for sufficient time to not take part in the siege) -the Dark Angels (having their own problems on Caliban...) -The Raven Guard (Corax having taken the survivors back to his homeworld for overfast experimental rebuilding of the Legion) Every one else was present... -The Imperial Fists had the entire Legion present (4 understrength, battered veteran Companies that accompanied Dorn and Garro and fought on Mars plus the rest of the Legion which returned from Istvaan with Sigismund) -The White Scars (having managed to escape the Alpha Legion nigh unscathed) -The Blood Angels (having purged Signus with heavy casualties) -The Death Guard (emerging from the Warp as Plague Marines in time to take part in the siege, horrifying the other traitors as much as the enemy with their pong) -The Sons of Horus -The Emperor's Children -The World Eaters -The Word Bearers (a small contingent (40 companies?) which had not gone to Calth to attack the Ultramarines) -The Iron Warriors (or at the very least Perturabo himself...the Collected visions state that he directed the bombardment and destruction of Imperial defences, so probably a contingent of his Legion was present. But one must not forget that most of the Legion was scattered throughout the Galaxy manning nigh impregnable fortresses commanded by warsmiths, which would give the Imperial Fists backbreaking work after the siege...) -The Thousand Sons (Collected Visions states that Magnus managed to flee the Space Wolves with a large portion of his Legion with the help of "a mutual ally" of himself and Horus (probably meaning Tzeentch or Chaos itself) and rendevouz with Horus just before the siege, implying that his Legion also took part. The text goes on to say that the Thousand Sons were in the First Wave in the assault on Terra together with the Emperor's Children, the Death Guard, The World Eaters and the Word Bearers) ...there are, however, two Legions where no one can surely say anything: -The Salamanders (having returned from the Isvaan V massacre without their Primarch and with barely a handful of Marines, their immediate fate is unknown. They could possibly have been on Terra defending the Palace, or they could have left to rebuild their Legion, like the Raven Guard) -The Iron Hands (with most of the Legion having PROBABLY survived Istvaan V (Ferrus only took his veteran companies to the fight, the rest never made it to the system in time), there is much speculation as to what they were doing while the siege was underway. Maybe they were mostly destroyed, maybe they were lost in warp-storms for a while, maybe they were to busy mourning Ferrus, OR MAYBE THEY TURNED TRAITOR TOO HAHAHAHA *insane laughter*) :P As to the strengths: Collected visions states the defenders had between one and two million Imperial Army troops, Mechanicus forces and Terran PDF/militia in addition to the three Legions. The traitor strengths can't be assessed for sure, though I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Horus had six million cultists, traitor Imperial Army and Dark Mechanicus forces in addition to the Traitor Marines... Hope this helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 the Dark Angels (having their own problems on Caliban...) Caliban happens after the Siege of Terra, the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves were heading to Terra together. Their imminent arrival was what made Horus drop his shields and face the Emperor. He had hoped to face a beaten, wounded and demoralised Emperor but ran out of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Can I ask where you read that WL Kieran? the IA article for them doesn't mention it either way (other than Mgnus fought with Horus at Istvaan 5), and I always assumed the legion was effectively broken by the Space Wolves at Prospero. the worst part is i cannot find my IA Thousand Sons article...but the Collected Visions states it in plain english, as does my pdf. Warhammer 40k Bible. i could have sworn i have read it elsewhere though...but the Collected Visions does state that the Thousand Sons were very understrength due to their parting gift from Russ. WLK Ok thanks for that, going to have to get me some o' that IA:Seige of the Palace! Great post by the way Ufthak, nice piece of research! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aastenu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Where was Jaghatai khan at the battle for Terra and during the siege of the Imperial Palace? Why was Lion El Jonson so late to realise what had happened with Horus ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Why was Lion El Jonson so late to realise what had happened with Horus ? Because hes a traitor.. muhaha! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Where was Jaghatai khan at the battle for Terra and during the siege of the Imperial Palace? Why was Lion El Jonson so late to realise what had happened with Horus ? Jaghatai was at Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Where was Jaghatai khan at the battle for Terra and during the siege of the Imperial Palace? He and the White Scars made a lightning charge to retake the Lion's Gate spaceport to halve the flow of traitors to the planet. They succeeded, and spent the rest of the Siege defending it in a protracted battle with the Death Guard, who Horus committed to retaking the spaceport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aastenu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 RIGHT ! Thank you all ! Indeed Jaghatai was in Terra and was frustrated with the Salamanders for not being there on time, if I am not wrong, Jonson a traitor? I think this is a mere speculation, I have heard the story before but not from an official source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 That's because it wouldn't be fun to speculate about his allegiance if it was made official :D If you ask me he has no goolies and just waited it out to see who emerged triumphant. I've never liked the DA's and their ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 RIGHT ! Thank you all ! Indeed Jaghatai was in Terra and was frustrated with the Salamanders for not being there on time, if I am not wrong, Jonson a traitor? I think this is a mere speculation, I have heard the story before but not from an official source... The novel "Angels of Darkness" is the source. And although it obviously doesnt claim the Lion is a traitor. It sure gives a different perspective of the Fallen - which then leads us to question the lionite angels' loyalty. (or so the reviews say. i havn't actually read the book myself as im not a big enough fan of the DA!) The Ending is suppose to get us to question the Lion's loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 The book suggests that the Lion could have made it in time to throw his Legion into the fray, but didn't as he was waiting to see who won so he could then join up with the victor. It also suggests that the Fallen weren't "chaos" as various other sources have claimed, but were cast aside by their Primarch and weren't happy about it. The Fallen attacked the Lion and his Astartes because he wasn't loyal enough to the Emperor and then the Fallen were cast out through time and space due to Caliban's proximity to the Eye. At least according to a captured Fallen being "interrogated." What I've never understood about the Dark Angel's fluff is why half the entire Legion was left on Caliban. According to everything I've read, the Great Crusade was getting stretched thin, at least in terms of Astartes to Expeditions. Why would Horus or the Emperor allow half of a Legion to sit on one planet? This would be somewhere around 5000+ Astartes. And it could be as much as ten times that depending on the size of the Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 The book suggests that the Lion could have made it in time to throw his Legion into the fray, but didn't as he was waiting to see who won so he could then join up with the victor. It also suggests that the Fallen weren't "chaos" as various other sources have claimed, but were cast aside by their Primarch and weren't happy about it. The Fallen attacked the Lion and his Astartes because he wasn't loyal enough to the Emperor and then the Fallen were cast out through time and space due to Caliban's proximity to the Eye. At least according to a captured Fallen being "interrogated." What I've never understood about the Dark Angel's fluff is why half the entire Legion was left on Caliban. According to everything I've read, the Great Crusade was getting stretched thin, at least in terms of Astartes to Expeditions. Why would Horus or the Emperor allow half of a Legion to sit on one planet? This would be somewhere around 5000+ Astartes. And it could be as much as ten times that depending on the size of the Legions. Indeed, theres certainly something fishy going on with the Dark Angels! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri the Corrupted Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 One can not trust the Dark Angels, who knows what kind of foul mutations they hide in those monkish robes? They're a bunch of xenos loving, opportunistic scally wags if you ask me. And besides, only hippies would paint their armour green and start living on a mobile rock and Cartman has taught us well in disliking all hippies! Back on topic: after the death of the Warmaster his legions were in a great hurry to evacuate, but what about the Chaos Titans? How did they leave? Did they join forces with other Chaos troops or did they just ran like hell to the EoT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aastenu Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 The book suggests that the Lion could have made it in time to throw his Legion into the fray, but didn't as he was waiting to see who won so he could then join up with the victor. It also suggests that the Fallen weren't "chaos" as various other sources have claimed, but were cast aside by their Primarch and weren't happy about it. The Fallen attacked the Lion and his Astartes because he wasn't loyal enough to the Emperor and then the Fallen were cast out through time and space due to Caliban's proximity to the Eye. At least according to a captured Fallen being "interrogated." What I've never understood about the Dark Angel's fluff is why half the entire Legion was left on Caliban. According to everything I've read, the Great Crusade was getting stretched thin, at least in terms of Astartes to Expeditions. Why would Horus or the Emperor allow half of a Legion to sit on one planet? This would be somewhere around 5000+ Astartes. And it could be as much as ten times that depending on the size of the Legions. For sure I would say there is something wierd about the chapter and surely the Fallen are strangely untainted by chaos and simply disagree with certain practices but I would go as far as to speculate that all Dark Angles are chaos worshipers and traitors. The key to what is happening is the role and identity of the Unseen and their relations with the both Lion and Azrael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 What I've never understood about the Dark Angel's fluff is why half the entire Legion was left on Caliban. According to everything I've read, the Great Crusade was getting stretched thin, at least in terms of Astartes to Expeditions. Why would Horus or the Emperor allow half of a Legion to sit on one planet? This would be somewhere around 5000+ Astartes. And it could be as much as ten times that depending on the size of the Legions. I suspect it was half the Dark Angels at the point the Loyalists returned to Caliban. So, whilst it may have been around a thousand Marines or more (particularly since Caliban is far away form Terra, and deep in what would have been enemy territory), when they were left there they wouldn't have been half the Legion. By the time the Loyalist DA returned, their numbers would have been thinned by the Heresy and so they would have no numerical advantage over Luther's men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I suspect it was half the Dark Angels at the point the Loyalists returned to Caliban. So, whilst it may have been around a thousand Marines or more (particularly since Caliban is far away form Terra, and deep in what would have been enemy territory), when they were left there they wouldn't have been half the Legion. By the time the Loyalist DA returned, their numbers would have been thinned by the Heresy and so they would have no numerical advantage over Luther's men. Well the 2nd founding can sometime detail their post-Heresy strength. With 3 known successors, that means roughly 4000 Dark Angels came through. And they were badly mauled in the fight for Caliban. So for half of the Legion to be on Caliban, 5000+ might be a good estimation. Luther was doing the recruiting for the Dark Angels on Caliban and while he might have been left with 1000 or so initially, over the time they were left there could have grown to half the Legion when you take frontline losses into account. But it just seems weird that so many Astartes were left in one place. Also, Caliban was brought into compliance, so it wasn't behind enemy lines or anything. Just close to the Eye of Terror which, with the pre-Heresy attitudes we see towards Chaos, would have been seen as a space phenomena and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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