lucifer light bearer Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I just bought the Redeemer/Crusader box and want peoples opinion on which I should build for my Salamanders army. it looks something like this. Vulkan 10 man tactical squad, flamer, multi-melta, powerfist combi flamer, drop pod 10 man tactical squad, flamer, multi-melta, powerfist combi flamer, rhino 5 terminators, TH/SS Venerable dreadnought, extra armor, heavy flamer, assault cannon, drop pod Venerable dreadnought, extra armor, heavy flamer, twin linked lascannon, drop pod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott-S6 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Depends on what you're fighting. Redemeer rules against MEQ but the Crusader gets better and bett as the enemy gets weaker. Here's some numbers (assuming 6" move, no stormbolter and no multi-melta, 3.5 hits per flamer.) Redemer (flamer+AC) AV3=3.9 AV4=5.9 AV5=5.9 T3AV5=5.9 Redemer (2xflamer) AV3=5.8 AV4= 5.8 AV5=5.8 T3AV5=5.8 Crusdaer (2xHB+AC) AV3=2.8 AV4=5.6 AV5=8.3 T3AV5=10.1 The MM is also an advantage to the Crusader. The redemeer can't use it withou reducing it's other fire. The crusader can use it, against another target if it wants). So, the answer to your question is: Magnets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maligoare Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Being Salamanders, I think the true answer to the question is "More Flamers!!". In all fairness, I would go with the Redeemer if you want fixed mounts. Otherwise go with what Scott said and magnetise them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel44 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 The LRC has always done pretty good for me in the past, but i'm now tempted to try out the LR Redeemer in my space wolf army, nothing like a barbacue to start the battle :P plus the Redeemer fits the Salamanders fluff better, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hmmm, ether the 'OMG:cussBBQ' land raider or the dakka land raider. well I personally got a redeemer and fielded it before it's release date (games day '08) because well the giant flamers look cool and thanks to a previous old crusader I had, I still have a spare multi-melta, storm bolter (now a converted 'extended barrel' version), the TLAC and th sponsons from the redeemer set and so I'm gonna buy a basic one to field the crusader. sorry drifted off on my rambles, anyway it's all about personal choice and what you face most. I chose the flamers because I faced power armour and cover save hogs (I'm looking at several xeno scum right now!) and so the dakka would be wasted. However since the crusaders real saving grace is it can still transport more than the redeemer (how this works I don't know, the tanks for fuel is the same for the bullets) and fire all it's weapons on the move (bar HK that should be fired turn one at enemy armour). Magnets are your friends but if you like me and want to be able to look at 3 land raiders and then field them, then you should just go with flamers, their cool and very effective (far better than hurricanes IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I think the answer to this lies in whether or not you're planning on transporting units in it. If you're transporting those TH/SS termies in it, I'd probably recommend the redeemer. I wasn't high on the redeemer until last week, when I played a team game with a guy that was playing one. The sucky part about them is getting both flamers into the mix. You basically NEED machine spirit for this. Best use for the LRR is to drive it right down the middle of your opponent's lines, unload the goodies and spend a few rounds flaming things. The Flamestorm cannons REALLY rip through things. I'd personally magnetize it if I were you. Strangely though, I have a feeling as though I'd probably play with it more as a LRC than a Redeemer. There's just something about two flamers as sponsons that doesn't sit well with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Thanks for all the advice. I've never magnetized anything anyone have any good instructions on how? Where would I find the magnets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I generally just go to Michael's and buy their neodymium magnets. The small ones tend to work well for predator/land raider sponsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Swift Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 i personally choose the crusader just because i can fit an extra terminator in there with my termy squads which that extra termy can be very very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Peon Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I would always say crusader, being able to move 6 and shoot everything is just too good to give up. 12 bolter, 3 assault cannon and the multimelta is too good to pass up. I do like the idea of the flamers but as you give up the assault cannon really I cant see it being as much use. Also when you get a weapon destroyed I have rarely seen anything but the multimelta picked. As for the magents rare earth magnets are pretty strong and you can find plenty of places n the net that you can buy them. I recently started using them and have found it not as hard as I expected to drill out the space. I would recommend using green stuff to make sure the magnet is securly in place and also not showing when its all together. I see that there are 3 uses for a land raider and for 2 you have nothing better in your codex. 1. transporting termies and vanguard(for some reason) to assault from (crusader is better) 2. being a bullet magnet (both are the same and the best we have) 3. shooting things up (really for the points you can get alot of vindicators/pred's/whirlwinds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 I do like the idea of the flamers but as you give up the assault cannon really I cant see it being as much use. What? Redeemer has hull-mounted twin-assault cannon, just like Crusader. The only difference between the two are the sponson guns and transport capacity; the Crusader can transport big units of Terminators etc, while the Redeemer has same capacity as basic Landraider. Also when you get a weapon destroyed I have rarely seen anything but the multimelta picked. I dunno....considering the power of the Flamestorm cannons, I think most people would pick the sponsons when attributing 'weapon destroyed' results. However, taking off the multi-melta means anything with AV13+ can largely ignore the Redeemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Also when you get a weapon destroyed I have rarely seen anything but the multimelta picked. I dunno....considering the power of the Flamestorm cannons, I think most people would pick the sponsons when attributing 'weapon destroyed' results. However, taking off the multi-melta means anything with AV13+ can largely ignore the Redeemer. You are aware that the controlling player chooses the weapon, right???? GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 You are aware that the controlling player chooses the weapon, right???? GC08 :huh: No they don't. '3 Damaged - Weapon Destroyed One of the vehicle's weapons (chosen by the attacker) is destroyed...' pg. 61, BRB, 2008 That has been the case since 4th edition anyway, dunno where you got that idea from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Master Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 What I don't like about the Redeemer is the very short range of the flamesorm cannon. Once you're in the thick of it, it's all fine. At least in terms of making use of your weaponry. But being in the thick of things also exposes you to meltas in 6" range (and they will make a mess of the LRR if there is more than one, charges by units with meltabombs, monstrous creatures (an avatar makes a fine mess of any armour, as do carnifexes and their likes). Another advantage of the LRC is that it will be able to use all its weaponry - Assault cannon, Storm bolter and hurricane bolters against infantry, and the multimelta with power of the machine spirit against a character, tank or MC. A redeemer on the other hand needs the machine spirit to be able to effectively use both flamers, and that leaves the melta (should you take one) wasted against something that is best taken care of by flamers. A LRC has more firepower than your average tactical squad (and is considerably tougher as 80% of my opponent's long-range weaponry will be useless against it, whereas any weapon, if in range, is of some use against space marines), and once you get into 12" of your opponent is when the fun truly begins with 14 bolter shots and an assault cannon to soften up whatever my termies inside will charge in the assault phase. That way they can take on literally anything with very high chances of success. With Salamanders, however, more flamers are better than anything else, and there is little like the smell of burned promethium greeting you when you disembark to smash whatever pitiful remnants of your target have survived those flame cannons. And the bigger the flamer the happier your Salamanders will be. So with Salamanders, I'd always take the redeemer. Because of the fluff. My army has a crusader because crusaders are just the darn coolest land raider version there is (and my whole army basically consists of what I consider "darn cool"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Also when you get a weapon destroyed I have rarely seen anything but the multimelta picked. I dunno....considering the power of the Flamestorm cannons, I think most people would pick the sponsons when attributing 'weapon destroyed' results. However, taking off the multi-melta means anything with AV13+ can largely ignore the Redeemer. You are aware that the controlling player chooses the weapon, right???? GC08 ;) What edition you playing, GC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 As it has been said, it depends. There are advantages/disadvantages to either tank. One has a LOT of firepower, but the other ignores cover. One has long range, but an average (for marines) weapon. This discussion only matters if all you are going to use is one tank for any opponent. In which, the LRC is the safest bet. It is easier to use than the Redeemer and is more forgiving tactically. But neither is truely better than the other. That's just a matter of opinion ... in my opinion :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesauceninja Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I use a redeemer with TH/SS termies. Love it againts my marine friends ;) and your salamanders take the redeemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corton Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Heres the numbers.. :o Its good vs. this.. <_< It sucks vs that... <_< Look,its simple. Which one looks cooler? There your awnser. The last thing you need is to look like a jerk because you are trying to maximize your effectivness against a particular army. Now this is a game,and you are supposed to have fun, but so is your opponent. My advice to you is this; don't be a lemming and follow the 'leader' cause the say it is the best, do your own thing. If it looks cool, make it work for you-you could devise tactics, run it differently....whatever! It is important to remember-have fun! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Heres the numbers.. :eek Its good vs. this.. ;) It sucks vs that... <_< Look,its simple. Which one looks cooler? There your awnser. The last thing you need is to look like a jerk because you are trying to maximize your effectivness against a particular army. Now this is a game,and you are supposed to have fun, but so is your opponent. My advice to you is this; don't be a lemming and follow the 'leader' cause the say it is the best, do your own thing. If it looks cool, make it work for you-you could devise tactics, run it differently....whatever! It is important to remember-have fun! :D What is this "fun" you speak of? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yergerjo Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I play an Iron Hands Successor, but my current company had extensive anti-armor/siege training from the Sallys...so I'm packing the Redeemer for my CA Vulkan's personal ride. I didn't waste the time or magnets because for this tank, I painted her up with a nice flame motif...looks pretty good...(No didgi-cam at moment). Thing is too...the Redeemer seems to be the scarier of the LR variants anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 What I don't like about the Redeemer is the very short range of the flamesorm cannon. Once you're in the thick of it, it's all fine. At least in terms of making use of your weaponry. But being in the thick of things also exposes you to meltas in 6" range (and they will make a mess of the LRR if there is more than one, charges by units with meltabombs, monstrous creatures (an avatar makes a fine mess of any armour, as do carnifexes and their likes). True, but if you plan in advance (ie take out enemy anti-tank), the flamestorm cannons can be very powerful. Only Terminators can ignore the templates, everyone else is dying horribly (or being forced to roll weak invul/FNP saves). It's as much a psychological weapon as a practical one (oh noes, the flamers o' death are coming! Shoot it with everything!). Thing is too...the Redeemer seems to be the scarier of the LR variants anyways... Definately. Forge World recently released a 'Grey Knight Redeemer' kit, ahead of the next IA release (which is rumoured to contain Malleus units/lists). I'm hoping that the rules for such a beast make the sponsons to ignore invul saves (dunno what they'd call the guns, 'mega-incinerator' or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredcorsair Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 It depends on your playstyle. All-around/ poweplayer wise, the crusader is better, but if you want to zoom up and kill crap, the redeemer is for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 because youre sally's wouldn't the redemer's flamer's be twin linked or somthing? that is a sally rule right? because everything under the template is automaticly hit, how does MS work for the flamestorm cannon's? personaly i wouldn't even expect you to need to fire them at a squad... just say "plop" and see how much you hit right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Peon Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 - Vulcan does not affect the flamestorm cannons on the redeemer, but all other flame/meltas it does work for. - Twinlinked of any template weapon means that you can reroll to wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 because youre sally's wouldn't the redemer's flamer's be twin linked or somthing? that is a sally rule right? No, only Flamers, Heavy Flamers, Combi-Flamers and Melta weapons get twin linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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