chaos spawn

[Fausto2071]

its pretty bad ass how many options their are for modeling them, but they seem like crap with legs to me. do they have any use?

[killersquid]

I useually use 6 or 9 in my chaos army. They are quite resilient, besides what their stats make them out to be. Plus they are quite fast. Nearly every game they get off a second turn charge on something. But they are really hit or miss. Either do really well, or really bad. But their speed and monstrous size and number of wounds makes them a very good fire absorber. They close in fast and can make an opponent shoot them, instead of other juicer troops units. I use them agaisnt orks quite a lot and they are dirty against them. Especially when they are mostly wounded on 6's by anything with S3.

 

Often times, their charges let me open to counter-attack what ever counter-attackers he puts into them. So they end up being a helpful-set-up unit.

 

3d6+3 S5 attacks on the charge is never something to scoff at either. marines wound 'em on 5's in close combat, so they often wont take anything in the way of wounds until the fists kick in.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

They are nice if you have a Gift of Chaos Sorc, but otherwise are not considered to be particularly competitive.

[eyescrossed]

They're crap. With legs. Sometimes even tentacles.

Jokes aside, they're pretty worthless in my opinion unless you use a lot of them at once.

[Mutt-Man!]

3T5 wounds to get rid of.

1T4 3+ save wound to get rid of.

 

3 Anti-Marine wounds compared to a buttload of basic gun rounds (lasgun, bolter, eldar/ork etc basic guns)

 

Thing is, often they only get one chance to spit the small shots before the spawn get there. They cover your armor save units with a 4+ cover save, and tie up the enemy with an average 8.03%(IIRC) move a turn with difficult terrain+fleet and almost double that when you charge. So 8"x3=24". Thats just the average. They do hell to any unit with strength 3, or units with very powerful attacks that dont attack so often (thunder hammer terminators). So they do their job well. But often, people pick other units for the same job.

 

They do well in high terrain battlefields. Where they dont roll dangerous terrain(bikes/transports/jump packs) to get to where they're going so that pulls out the factor of losing anyone or speed due to terrain.

 

So if you want a unit that is backwards durable compared to a marine, something to scare the opponent for a turn instead of using your heavy support for that, or you want something that can munch entire mobs of orks and the like with relatively few models, and if you like the idea of not caring what terrain is on the battlefield and you like the 4+ cover saves they give marines behind them (they are big enough to cover tanks LoS!) then they are a prime model to use.

 

People dont poke around their real use before snuffing them. This could be an additional advantage, people may ignore them until its too late. Remember Loyalists get 1 attack a model, and you get up to 6 per model, it would take forever for one unit of marines even fitted with power weapons to take a unit of 3(9 wounds) spawns out in melee.

 

Try to expose them to fire when you have other units that come within range to split fire, otherwise they do get shot up because they are "the only option to shoot at". People make that mistake, treating them like marines. Think of them like eldar instead.

[chillin]

I have never used them b4 b/c on paper they don't look useful, but mutt-man and squid, you have definately given me some stuff to think about. And of course great modeling oppoturnities, maybe some converted WHFB minators or ogres. Might have to give them a try.

[the jeske]

they give up kill points and anything that by passes t5 [and there is some stuff like that played] kills them dead . there are match ups where they do nothing [ork bikers nobs kill them with the high number of power fist attacks , same with BC spam builds ] . sure they can tie up tacticals , but a chaos army beats tacticals without spawn . + they arent cheap to make them useful one need to use 2x3 units and while cheap , spawns arent free and those unit mean less oblits less termicide . I would rather have a working meta against LR rush builds or better chance of beating nobz , then be eveb better at tieing up tacticals.

[Mutt-Man!]

Reverse marines I mentioned, right?

 

We have daemons, we have spawns, we have MEQ's that are arguably the best is most fields of combat, we have big critters and scary vehicles, and a better pie plate choice then loyalists get, we get everything. Because we dont lack in much, is why its hard to find a "Splinter in the 360 pie" a direct use. Its there for people with spawns that want to use them, and the option is there when we want to build a list that is different, and most importantly its there to ensure lists heavy in Vespids/Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons/Genestealers/Harlequins/non str10 spam(like havocs+chosen, plasma termi squads etc) and the like cant vapourise our specialists in one volley, rather have to deal with Spawns and even Daemons. (Some may argue 3 daemons are better then 1 spawn, try getting close enough and keeping an icon alive for a lucky unit of reserves rolling).

 

Its a flipside use that is availible to us. Thats the main thing, I wont argue termicide units are more useful in more variety of situations. I use them a lot myself. Though when I feel like 60 raptors with nurgle icons, and I want a small wall screening force in my 2500-3000 point one list force, I normally pack spawns and daemons.

[Hellios]

our specialists in one volley, rather have to deal with Spawns and even Daemons. (Some may argue 3 daemons are better then 1 spawn, try getting close enough and keeping an icon alive for a lucky unit of reserves rolling).

 

They are called one thousand sons >.< my 1kson army <3's daemons. On that note I also use spawn normally from gift of chaos, although I have been known to use them in squads as I have 10 :S I'm not a big fan of them when KP's come into play but yer they can be useful as for disruption and distraction. Although I would never to rely on them to do anything other than to absorb some fire and if they make it into combat kill soft units.

[the jeske]

and I want a small wall screening force in my 2500-3000 point one list force,

but mutt thats apo size . normal games today are 1750-2k pts[1500pts in uk]. sure a lot of stuff can be put in a 3k pts army and "work" and a lot of the good stuff aint so good at those pts [oblits , 2lash princes] . but I cant agree that spawn are generally ok , because they work well in 2.5-3k pts armies.

[Mutt-Man!]

Agreed Jeske, but mentioned before, its hard to find a spot for a "Sliver in the pie". I happen to have almost everything for a chaos force of any kind up to 2k, and enough to field an entire side of an apocalypse force up to 22k (without HQ's). So I can manage to build such forces with little sidesteps that the usual gamer wouldnt have and I face off against other big army gamers that prefer 3k standard fights.

 

In most 2k and less I would at most field about 1 or 2 spawns along dreadnoughts, to forward a vindicator rush, and otherwise fodder style combat that I have already filled with bike-cide, term-cide units. (Nice effect I must say even as a pawn role)

[Hydra Bait]

I think chaos spawn are pretty useful for tying up monstrous creatures. What's the point of throwing space marines in their shiny power armor if they're just going to lose it anyway?

a couple packs of spawn will really throw a nidzilla list for a curveball.

[Cornelias]

yeah i must agree the spawn kit is absolutely smashing, it's just unfortunate the only use i've ever had out the 2 i got with my army deal when the codex was release is as a proxy for oblits :P

[Lord Humongous]

I think chaos spawn are pretty useful for tying up monstrous creatures.

 

Lesser demons do that even better. Cheaper per wound, with a 5+ invulnerable save. And generally easier to get into position.

[Mutt-Man!]

Well on the offhand spawns create consistant attacks until a model is entirely removed compared to marines that would be there. Cheaper then 3 marines, and taking "power weapon" hits up the wazoo. Creating a decent rush of strength 5 attacks on the backhand too, could be just as well as having lesser daemons for the job. Daemons though are more durable, if a little less offence and spawns are better in that situation then regular marines. Facing Greater Daemons and power weapons that is...

[the jeske]

mutt but a single spawn generates generally less attacks then 3 csm [not to mention zerkers] . spawn do "ok" against tacticals or anything wih low str /low number of attacks , the problem is there arent many untis like that used in good armies.

[Megalodon]

Spawn have their uses; like running up a flank with a couple of Dreads to soak up any fire frenzy shots.

[Cornelias]

that's an extra 40 points on top of your already sub-par dreadnought, i'm sure i'd rather spend my points elsewhere :angry:

[Megalodon]

that's an extra 40 points on top of your already sub-par dreadnought, i'm sure i'd rather spend my points elsewhere :angry:

Feel free to do so. 2 Dreads and a spawn running up a flank are a serious CC threat to the enemy, and forces him to make tough decisions on what to fire at.

[Cornelias]

well that's about at the cheapest 240 points for 2 dreads and a spawn..........

 

1. chaos lord, wings,icon,daemon weapon,melta bombs + 6 LSD = 238 points

 

2. land raider with daemonic possession =240 points

 

3. 3x oblits = 225 points

 

4. 6x terminators, icon of khorne,3x combi-meltas,chainfist = 240 points

 

5. 7x havocs + 1 champ, 4x meltagun,IoCG,powerfist,rhino = 240 points

 

that's a total of 5 ways to better spend 240 points on non scoring units, tbh i'd even consider possessed to be more useful than 2 dreads and a spawn.

[Mutt-Man!]

Its a bunch of potential strength 5 attacks in melee, on a model that doesnt care if you use power weapons. There are superior models for the job I'm sure, but being multi-task for a very direct role and cheap to get one as a "complete unit" and being the cheapest unit to field in the whole codex. A points filler is even a role in itself for someone who doesnt want 11 marines in a rhino unit, or already has a packed HQ and doesnt want to squeeze a few marines out for a cheap sorcerer.

 

Lots of uses that are far from eachother. Even if its the weakest unit in the codex, doesnt mean its weak as a unit itself. If Imperial Guard got them, well would they prefer those over orgyns? (Speed and such being its main factor)

 

Older case in point from my experiences. Banshee's that I have charged with them really hate them. Incubi have had much better success, but still lost equal points value in the same melee. Three have munched a total of 70 or more grots, making their cost back and opening orks for a barrage of non-cover save bolter hits. Among other things that I rather not use 6 raptors for 3 spawns (9 wounds vs 6).

[Megalodon]

Cornelias, I'll agree those are all good choices, but everyone of those choices is just one unit; my 240 is 3 units and more difficult to eliminate.

 

At 2000 points I use the Dread spawn combo as a form distraction on the opposite flank of a refused flank attack. Don't discount this combo until you've tried it, I have found it to work great.