Tell me your command squad loadouts.

[tedwin183]

So I am back on the command squad thing again. This time, I am thinking it might be cool to have 3 of them with plasma guns, 1 with a plasma pistol and either ccw or power weapon, banner and then the apoth. I'd like to hear other people's command squad builds. I have heard the best way to run command squads is to keep them specialized.

 

 

Type away.

[rockdeity]

Vanilla squad with bp + ccw is the best I think. 2-4 plasmaguns makes sense because you can offset the risk of gets hot somewhat. That's really the only configuration that make sense to me. Giving them upgraded ccw, including storm shields, and it might as well be terminators or honor guard for better cost efficiency. They are there to soak wounds for your captain. Let them do that :rolleyes:

[Grindgodgrind]

I work mine for combat, Company Champion, Company Banner, Flamer dude, and guy with Power Fist. They've done pretty well so far, too.

[Steve Irwin]

Hey people,

Using the Dark Angel Codex here, so no great boon for me, I can only upgrade two guys... :)

Anywho, I have a Standard Bearer, an Apothecary, the Company Champion, and two Plasma Gunners.

This Squad will hang back, blazing away with the Plasma Guns, and allowing re-rolling failed Leadership/Morale/Pinning checks with the Company Banner (12” range though).

The Apothecary can auto-save any Plasma Gunner who get a little excited (just like your old Apothecaries), so the Squads firepower output will hopefully remain at a maximum; and he can do this once per Player Turn, not per Game Turn.

There also Fearless, which is sexy for what I intend to do with them (shoot!).

Then in the Squad I put the Company Master (Fearless too...), armed with only a Power Sword, just for a little close combat punch; he provides Leadership 10 to my entire force, which again is pretty sexy.

I hope that helps! ^_^

Steve

[TheReclusiarch]

I use two with Close combat weapon and bolt pistol, one with storm shield, a company champion and of course the Apothecary. The storm shield marine sometimes stops an AP3 shot or two, the others are just there to escort the captain into combat. The champion is pretty cheap so I got him as well, to boost the Captain's already awesome close combat skills.

[Olesh]

I use two with Close combat weapon and bolt pistol, one with storm shield, a company champion and of course the Apothecary. The storm shield marine sometimes stops an AP3 shot or two, the others are just there to escort the captain into combat. The champion is pretty cheap so I got him as well, to boost the Captain's already awesome close combat skills.

 

If you're going to take a storm shield for the express purpose of intercepting AP3 shots, you really may want to take more than one to ensure that you can, first, allocate more than a single AP3 wound, and two, get redundancy. You've got a 1/3 chance of losing your AP3 wound-taker, but if you have a backup, the unlucky first turn krak missile isn't as big a deal.

[Captain Malachi]

Apoth gets a bolter, captain gets a bolter with hellfire rounds and a relic blade, everyone else gets a plasma gun. They ride in a razorback. Good bye MEQs.

[TheReclusiarch]

I use two with Close combat weapon and bolt pistol, one with storm shield, a company champion and of course the Apothecary. The storm shield marine sometimes stops an AP3 shot or two, the others are just there to escort the captain into combat. The champion is pretty cheap so I got him as well, to boost the Captain's already awesome close combat skills.

 

If you're going to take a storm shield for the express purpose of intercepting AP3 shots, you really may want to take more than one to ensure that you can, first, allocate more than a single AP3 wound, and two, get redundancy. You've got a 1/3 chance of losing your AP3 wound-taker, but if you have a backup, the unlucky first turn krak missile isn't as big a deal.

 

 

 

Naa, I'm saving my points. Usually my command squad die from massed small arms fire anyway. ;)

[gdeathlegion]

Apoth, Banner, Champion, PFist + Storm Shield, Storm Shield + Chainsword.

Captain with Relic Blade, Plasma Pistol, Storm Shield.

 

Stick em in combat with a chappy and we're in business.

[vhati]

apothecary, champion and 3 guys with flamer

 

they come with a razorback with TL-Heavy flamer and will probably be drop-podded when I buy one.

 

 

And of course I've been thinking of including Vulkan as my second HQ choice.

[Brother Cassern]

I'm liking this set up; Company Champion, Standard Bearer, Apothecary, one Vet with a Thunder Hammer and Combi-Flamer\Melta, one with BP&CCW or a Meltagun\Flamer, with a Chaplain and Captain attached in a Rhino. At the prices people pay for kitted out Razorbacks I'd rather take a Vindicator or Dreadnought...

[Chucku]

The Command Squad is one of the strongest SM units in the codex.

 

Don't be afraid to spend the points making them so. That's all I'm saying.

[Warp Angel]

If a command squad starts to exceed 200 points in cost, I buy terminators instead.

 

If I want CC capability at the same price, I go with volume of attacks with the same price of Vanguard instead of a command squad.

If I want shooting capability at the same price, I go with the same price in Sternguard.

If I want a great bike squad for CC, I just add a chappy as an HQ choice.

 

I see the command squad as a points sink.

[Chucku]

If a command squad starts to exceed 200 points in cost, I buy terminators instead.

 

If I want CC capability at the same price, I go with volume of attacks with the same price of Vanguard instead of a command squad.

If I want shooting capability at the same price, I go with the same price in Sternguard.

If I want a great bike squad for CC, I just add a chappy as an HQ choice.

 

I see the command squad as a points sink.

 

Okay, I'll say more.

 

A Command Squad, with FNP and Storm Shields, are as tough to kill as TH/SS Terminators (on up to S7 hits). But they can be better armed for the close fight (I like Lightning Claws and meltaguns). They fit in a Rhino. They can perform sweeping advances. It takes no slots on the FOC.

 

When partnered with Korr'saro Khan they Furious Charge and Hit&Run as well as giving Khan FNP.

 

This unit is a deadly scalpel which can eviscerate units when they charge. Since they're limited in size they generally do not wipe out an opposing unit in the first turn of assault - which means they stay safe from fire during the opponent's turn - but definitely thin out the opposition and stand up well to return attacks, even from power weapons. Plus they can leave assault using Hit&Run.

 

Sternguard are fine but assault is to shooting as 2 is to 1 these days, besides which a well provisioned Command Squad has good shooting ability with meltas and flamers. Vanguard are similar but have a higher initial cost, don't have FNP and can't take meltaguns or flamers.

 

IMHO, it's worth the points.

[Ryjak]

Looking at what the Command Squad does (protect your Captain) and what it has available, I see only two viable ways to load them out... give them 4 special weapons and make them shooty, ablative wounds, or make them a true bodyguard carrying Storm Shields. If you want an integral HtH escort for your HQ, upgrade to a Master and get the Honor Guard, since they all get power weapons... and Artificer Armor is pretty good too.

[Chucku]

The thing is the Command Squad can be both shooty and excellent in HtH + have good power weapons and nigh the best invul save in the game. FNP essentially provides a 2+ Save (mathematically, since 1/2*1/3 = 1/6) for non-power weapon attacks. Honor Guard in artificer armor can't stand up to power weapons, period, or shoot worth a damn.

[Resv]

The only time lately that I have actively fielded a Command Squad is if they are on bikes. I know this is an expensive addition but this one unit if kitted out for CC fills a much needed gap in my bike army. In a way it is like having a really fast unit of Terminators able to keep pace with one of the best HQs in the C:SM, your lowly Bike Captain. If you really get saucy you can toss in a Mounted Chaplin and switch out your Captain for Khan and you have EVEN MORE death on wheels withe the fastest unit we have. Also, never forget that Bikes are Relentless, so if you really want to make that Plasma toting squad then this is a great platform for it. Sure it is a point sink but it can give your army an extra kick that it might not have had.

 

Now, all of that aside, if you take an IC on foot or something of that nature then there are much more cost effective options available to you. Sternguard, Vanguard, and Terminators can be taken in greater numbers for the cost of outfitting only 5 troops.

 

Oh to add something useful to the thread, my Mounted Command Squad is the most expensive unit I have ever played with at 325 points. In every game I have played with them in the last month and a half I have never lost more than 2 per game, and this is my most overworked unit responsible for most of my kills. The are quite possibly the most frivolous unit I could field but I have seen the damage they can cause with t5 and FNP keeping them around. I have eaten units of Nob Bikers with these guys and come out unscathed. But I sacrifice a lot with such an expensive unit.

[Chucku]

@ Resv

 

I ran a similar bike Command Squad in a bike army I was toying with. Their Relentless, T4(5) and move capabilities when bound with Khan were awesome for all the reasons you've given and had similar results in that they were the dominant force on the board. Very survivable and very killy.

 

I wound up forsaking the bike army, though, for one based on armor. Too many issues with losing expensive troops to difficult (ie dangerous) terrain, being susceptible to the Lash and getting blasted by massed Nidzilla Barbed Stranglers (S8, no FNP). These issues more or less go away when mounted in a Rhino (though no 12" move & charge and plasmaguns were turned in for more meltas :P ).

 

However your experience bears out my thesis - that a well-outfitted Command Squad, though expensive and small, are a dominating force with high attack potential and high persistence.

[Resv]

Lash will always be a problem, so will stranglers. They key to it is a liberal use of Storm Shields. Recently I started playing around with adding in a Librarian on a bike along with the Command Squad just to try to up their staying power.

 

Abandon all the cool stuff like thunder hammers, power weapons, plasma guns, and strip them to their basic kit. You get a cheap unit of veterans with FNP, very simple and effective in their own way. However, anything they can do in their basic state another unit can do better for 10 more points. Vanguard get better basic kit and Sternguard get hellfire shells, I'm not a huge fan on the other ammunition. The very moment you buy them up, honestly, THE INSTANT you start to customize out your Command Squad you call into question the points you are spending. FNP is great, but after playing Plague Marines for such a long time I have seen how easy it is to get around. The best thing you can take is the Company Banner with all of the awesome effects you get from it. In any other situation I would out right abandon my Command Squad for a cheaper solution.

 

The only thing they can do which Vanguard and Sternguard can't is hop on a bike and serve as Mounted Veterans. I won't get into the tactics and theory of a bike army here, but in this role they really do shine and can truly prove their worth. Here is where I have a hard time defending myself, I buy up gear on my command squad like it was going out of style. In my mind they need to be effective for their role and in a Bike heavy army they need to keep up with my Captain and serve the vital role of Killer in an army of Cleaners. So buying the right gear is part and parcel to their direct effectiveness. Only in this role would I ever include them into my army.

[Chucku]

They had Storm Shields but 3+ or 3++ didn't matter against S8 attacks. A failed armor save meant death with no FNP.

 

My experience still points to the fact that a Command Squad kitted with LCs, meltaguns/flamers and SS are awesome. I ride them around in a Rhino, do drive-by's with melta or flamer (depending on the target), then dismount next turn, shoot again and assault with Khan's Furious Charge.

 

An example from a game I played not too long ago:

- drive up with a Rhino inside 6" to a LR filled with Assault Terminators & a Chappy

- unload with 3 meltaguns, hit twice and pen twice, destroying the LR

- get shot at by enemy AT fire in the opponent's turn but since I was masked by the LR get cover saves, which I make

- Rhino gets assaulted by the Termies and blows up (no kills either side)

- my turn I zot two Termies with melta shots and do two wounds with bolter pistol/flamer and kill one Terminator.

- then assault with Khan - getting more than a dozen hits and 8 power weapon wounds which kills all but the Chappy

- Chappy makes a wound on Khan, who saves

- the Chappy as a Fearless model then had to take 4 saves versus wounds = dead (ETA - actually 4 saves...)

- consolidate out of view by disabled LR

Score:

Command Squad - 6 + 1 LR

Assault Terminators + Chappy - 0 + 1 Rhino

[Bannus]

If a command squad starts to exceed 200 points in cost, I buy terminators instead.

 

If I want CC capability at the same price, I go with volume of attacks with the same price of Vanguard instead of a command squad.

If I want shooting capability at the same price, I go with the same price in Sternguard.

If I want a great bike squad for CC, I just add a chappy as an HQ choice.

 

I see the command squad as a points sink.

I don't consider them a point sink - but a very specialized unit.

 

Their role is to sit in the center of your army where the banner can have the most benefit. The Apothecary is there to keep the small squad alive and they shoud be kitted out as a reserve unit - to throw into the fight only when the line begins to weaken.

 

Keep them cheap. Just because they can take a boatload of options, doesn't mean they should. :(

[General Retreat]

What would you guys think about Standard, Plasma Pistol/Powersword/Meltabombs x 3?

 

That's 235 points I think, and you know I'd have to put them in my trusty LC/T-L PG w/ EA Razorback. So 325 if all my math is right. My codex has gone to miss.

 

Add Sicarious for 200 or just a regular Captain w/ Powersword, Plasma Pistol for 130.

 

The Vets would all get 3 PW attacks standard (9), plus 6 regular from the Standard/Apothecary, the Captain 4. On the charge, that's 17 PW attacks and 8 regular attacks, after 4 plasma pistol shots (with FNP so you don't risk those vets or Captain) and 2 bolts.

 

450 points could feasably be squeezed into 1250 or more, I think...

 

Any thoughts?

[Scott-S6]

I have a CC tooled-up command squad with captain and razorback. It's pretty pricey.

 

In a lot of games it's not worth taking. Too many points and it's either not good enough at fighting and gets whipped or doesn't have anything worth fighting. E.G. against a daemon prince+chaos lord I'd rather shoot them. Against imperial guard, there's nothing that needs a squad that killy.

 

So, in a big game where they can really go on the rampage they're okay. Against an army with one or two medium-ability CC units (e.g. necrons, marines) they're useful.

 

Other times, I prefer to take a Damacles as my HQ