zarnak21 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I belive the Emperor lead the other Primarch's to belive that the missing 2 were dead or lost. This plays on the part of the emperors personality that the Lion seemed to encapsulate. This sort of misterious hidden agenda / misstrust. The strongest 2 ideas I've thought of as their powers are: Invisibility - A truly covert Primarch much more the assasin than the general. Although does lead his legion as a leader on surgical strikes. I think they were off destroying key Necron facilities during the great crusade to slow the speed of the necron awakening so the Imperium couild grow strong enough to counter it. My view is they lost contact before the Horus Heresy and nevery returned. They will return in the end time to stand with humanity. Null Primarch - Prehaps chaos could not take him/her away from earth as the others were. Prehaps conflict in its creation between what it was and the powere of the warp used to create it caused the tank to crack (as horus saw one of the tanks cracked). He / she could be head of the sisters of silence or a covert leader of a small legion of null spacemarines. Prehaps they were the Emperors last defence against strong advesary such as magnus or the later beefed up horus. My thoughts are that the Emperor held them back as a last resort against Horus right untill the very end but then never used them. Over come with greif he/she went in to self exile. They will return in the end time to stand with humanity. Just what I was think of when I was out running. I like the null idea. I think I prefer the idea that it is a he and has a seperate legion of null marines. I may even make some conversions using culex assasin heads. What to you think. Good Ideas or bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch Corax Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 While these are nice opinions, there is no info to back them off. That's like me saying; "in the far reaches of space, there exist a race called the Blargians." You need to back it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarnak21 Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Well I don't realy need to back it up as their is absolutly no information on the lost 2 appart from invisibility is mentioned as a power of the priamrch's (it in codex imperialist I think). I think a null primarch would be interesting though as it ties the necrons in from the start - prehaps he was called Pariah or Animus. For me rambling thoughts on things like this are all part of the hobby. Prehaps this is in the wrong forum Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazard Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I think the Invisible part is a joke by GW staff. He's invisible - we wont see him :) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalfedan Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Null Primarch You mean like Jurgen the blank from the Ciaphas Cain series? That would make an AWESOME primarch! you could just send him to the Eye of Terror for the ultimate purge! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustermaker Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 prob sent them into the Imperial Web Way to hold it against chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I think that a Null Primarch is a great idea but think how unpleasant it would be to have a Legion full of null marines running around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 i've thought about a null primarch before since it sort of makes sense right? magnus = super psyker so that would make fagnus = super null :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1934973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 The Invisible Primarch quote is from Rogue Trader, although back then 'Primarchs' were not Primarchs in the way we understand them today, and were more of a Marine commander figure (so I'm not sure how much credence you can put in that information to be honest). Zarnak21, you need to get hold of the Dark King & Lightning Tower short stories, they put to rest alot of the more radical theories about the nature of the missing Primarchs and legions. In summary, we know they existed, and were re-united with their legions, but then they failed the Emperor in some way (the nature of this is not explained). I doubt that we shall ever be told exactly what happened to them. Interesting ideas though, many of the Primarch'd did have extra abilities, so something like this would not have been out of the question for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindaris Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Zarnak21, you need to get hold of the Dark King & Lightning Tower short stories, they put to rest alot of the more radical theories about the nature of the missing Primarchs and legions. In summary, we know they existed, and were re-united with their legions, but then they failed the Emperor in some way (the nature of this is not explained). I doubt that we shall ever be told exactly what happened to them. Indeed. We know they were found, that they took part in the Crusade but then something happened. Something bad. We also know they did not fight other legions or dissolve into civil war within their own Legion. How do we know this? Because until the Heresy all the marines present the thought that Astartes fighting Astartes is unthinkable. Obviously if it had happened before it wouldn't be unthinkable. But we know Dorn mentions that what happened with these two could have been a warning about what happened with Horus. So we know they didn't leave on friendly or fatal terms (they didn't just get wiped out by some advanced race). Of course the Primarchs know more then what your average Astartes knows. So we can't truly rule out a civil war within a legion as long the news would only reach the Emperor and the Primarchs. So its possible part of a Legion fell to Chaos and the remainder they remained loyal fought to preserve their Legion and in the end very few if any survived. We know Horus wasn't the first to be turned. But maybe neither were the Wordbearers. What do I think happened? I think both Legions fell to Chaos. Some went deep into space or on their own agenda. But some others infiltrated other chapters and helped the corruption from within. Edit: Also consider present day... from the Eye of Terror. All those different Chaos Warbands. Maybe... just maybe some of those warbands arn't really just random fallen marines joined together. They could be one of the missing Legions and honestly who would ever know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 they probably went all bermuda triangle in space :) lol just kidding Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miniman Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm particularly keen on the "Null Primarch" theory myself. It seems like a viable, educated option. Like SonOfHorus said, you have a super-beefed up psyker, why not have a complete void? Seems like all the Primarchs have their "other halves", Dorn and Peturabo for example. One builds fortifications, the other destroys them. So that could evidently fit into the fluff. Interestingly, you can combine a few theories and have the Big E deciding that the "null" legion be wiped from the map, and make it seem like somthing bad befell them, so they can toddle off and do secret Necron work. And then everybody's happy! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazard Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 A viable theory... BUT! The presence of a null is painfull to a psyker and the Emperor despite not being a common mortal possesed with psychic talent was still a psyker of sorts... How would he react to a Null? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarnak21 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 A viable theory... BUT! The presence of a null is painfull to a psyker and the Emperor despite not being a common mortal possesed with psychic talent was still a psyker of sorts... How would he react to a Null? Prehaps he sent them away and took down their figure heads (like in Dark King & Lightning Tower - Pacifer81 I have it ). Although it would seem strange to do so. I always thought that they had a disagreement with the emperor and either refused to take part in the great crusade or didn't agree with his meathods. Prehaps he put them both 'on ice' in his dungeon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I like the idea of a Null Primarch, but the problem is "Where are you going to find a Legions worth of Blanks". Before and during the Great Crusade, there weren't a million worlds in the Imperium, not to mention that while a lot of worlds populations do have the genetic markers to produce one or two Blanks per several billion, a lot of Blanks produce such an aura of unease and unnaturalness in their parents that many are killed at birth, or soon after. I can't imagine that the Emperor would be able to be in the same room as one, let alone create a legion of Nulls. Just the sheer difficulty of finding 5000+ Blanks would mean that creating a Legion like that would be impossible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well he founded the sisters of silence and they were most often accompanying him so the emperor must have had some sort of resistance to nulls. Plus, he wouldn't have needed 5000 nulls. 1000 or even just a few hundred would do just fine for an elite unit dedicated to fighting chaos. And also think about this, the sisters of silence were an all female force of nulls. What if all the male blanks in the emp's service were made marines? It would also explain why that legion was destroyed, the null effect became too strong and eventually the emperor grew to hate the null primarch due to the effect and had to destroy him and his legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 A viable theory... BUT! The presence of a null is painfull to a psyker and the Emperor despite not being a common mortal possesed with psychic talent was still a psyker of sorts... How would he react to a Null? Prehaps he sent them away and took down their figure heads (like in Dark King & Lightning Tower - Pacifer81 I have it ). Although it would seem strange to do so. IIRC the statues of the 'missing legion' Primarchs have been covered up, but are still standing in the Vestuary along with those of all the other Primarchs. Interesting point there Askari as to why all the nulls seem to be women. Is it something peculiar to females, or like you said there was some other purpose with those who are male? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1935980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 IIRC the statues of the 'missing legion' Primarchs have been covered up, but are still standing in the Vestuary along with those of all the other Primarchs. Interesting point there Askari as to why all the nulls seem to be women. Is it something peculiar to females, or like you said there was some other purpose with those who are male? there is evidence of a male blank, jurgen, the ever trusty aid to commissar cain, but he is the only one i have ever heard mention of...that is very odd now that i think of it. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Culexus Assassins are largely portrayed as male, so there goes the "female null" theory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 exactly i was gonna say cullexus as well they're mostly if not all male i belive. but the null primarch idea is stll pretty cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Ahh ok, well maybe the Silent Sisterhood job has a recruitment policy that favours females employees - kind of like sectretarial work? We haven't noticed it yet, but theres one silent sister whos a man at the back of a picture, shuffling around and looking all akward, all the while wishing he could occassionally have a chat about football or baseball.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 well if the sisters of silence took males they wouldn't be called sisters :P they'd be called the family of silence ^_^ :P lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindaris Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 It would also explain why that legion was destroyed, the null effect became too strong and eventually the emperor grew to hate the null primarch due to the effect and had to destroy him and his legion. Sorry, but I don't think so. Dorn say the unknown two could have been a warning about the Heresy. It would have taken more then just the Emperor to take down a Legion, especially if it was filled with Blanks. He would have needed the help of another Legion and then that puts in the whole idea of brother vs brother, which was unthinkable before the Heresy. Now the idea of the Primarch himself being a Null, its possible. The Blankness that creates unease would likely have been partially countered by the Primarch nature and this Primarch might have seemed more like an average Joe rather then a walking god like Horus and the others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 My 2, far-fetched cents: It would make a LOT of sense if the 2 legion had fallen to Chaos. On Horus Rising becomes quite clear that the Emperor know about the Chaos Gods, but he hides it even from the primarchs - he speaks about extraplanar creatures, but nothing near the true nature of the Chaos Gods as we know in 40k. So, he deletes all the info about those legions, to keep his "reason-above-obscurantism" rule valid. But, when everything goes upside-down and Chaos it's not a secret anymore, the Emperor is already tied to his throne, and his secrets are his alone. :D A second idea, based on the references about "exactly half" of the legions turned to Chaos, that only one Legion followed the fate I described above, and the other died slaughtered/facing that Legion - that would fit with the theories about Dark Angels and Emperor's Children: 1) Legion A turns to Chaos; 2) Legion B is sent by the Emperor to destroy them, but is destroyed instead; 3) Emperor's Children almost fall victim of the Legion A (that's why their number became so thin that they are united to the Luna Wolves)... 4) ... but are saved by the Dark Angels (which takes much of the time of the DA participation in the Crusade) 5) the records of Legion A purging by DA are deleted, to keep the cover up - and DAs deals with a lot of secrecy about that, guarding a secret that the Emperor himself asked them to protect. It fits with the Dorn comment about the fall of the 2 Legion being possibily a prelude to the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 It would also explain why that legion was destroyed, the null effect became too strong and eventually the emperor grew to hate the null primarch due to the effect and had to destroy him and his legion. Sorry, but I don't think so. Dorn say the unknown two could have been a warning about the Heresy. It would have taken more then just the Emperor to take down a Legion, especially if it was filled with Blanks. He would have needed the help of another Legion and then that puts in the whole idea of brother vs brother, which was unthinkable before the Heresy. The other missing legion :D In all seriousness, I doubt the null theory myself, but the two missing legions aren't something I've ever bothered to think about much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/164488-null-primarch-invisible-primarch/#findComment-1936913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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