Frogstar168 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 So, I played a 1000 game - my vanilla Marines vs. Blood Angels led by Mephiston - and got stomped. Mephiston, supported by some DC, killed half of my army by turn 2 (including a generic captain with RB, heavy tac squad and terminators). My question is: do I simply treat him like a daemon prince and shoot him to pieces, or is there something else I am missing? Also, any one have any experience with using one of the new SM special characters against Mephiston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kluft Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Lysander will most lily mess up mephiston pretty hard. All he needs to do is hit him once, and mephy is dead on a 2+. Otherwise, plasma guns work just fine. Will wound on a 2+ and give no armor save or FNP. Really hes not that tough. He has NO invul save and no eternal warrior. If they gave him an inv save he would become beast, but alas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Krak missile or lascannon, a wound from either will kill him outright. Althoughhe gets his armour save against the missile, so a lascannon is best. Failing that, powerfist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Scorpion Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Mephiston is Toughness 5, so you'll need a S10 hit to Instant Kill. He is hard, but the lack of an Invulnerable Save makes him killable with enough high strength low AP shots. Drop a Vindicator shell on his head and say goodbye! Combat is a no go unless you are Calgar or Lysander, he'll just Instant Kill anyone else with his Force Weapon. I reckon Mephiston would take out a full Tactical Squad before a hidden Power Fist took all of his wounds, especially if he is running around with the Death Company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Oh damn he is, in that case, demolisher cannon. Or a dread in CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstar168 Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yeah, he killed my Relic blade wielding Captain, and most of my terminators before they could even strike with his Init 6. So, lots of AP2 and/or Str10 shooting ... or Lysander. thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Dreads are best.. You cant just put a pie plate on him and expect it to work.. He will have a bodyguard and you will roll at least one 1 and guess who doesnt get hit... Same with plasma guns and lascannons - a unit of 5 DC (he had a chaplain in the unit?) will soak up ALOT of firepower... The amount of hurt you need to bring in this range and how hard it is to obtain and then focus it on the one unit will ensure that whatever else he takes will be having its merry way with your army... Dreads are golden as DC cant hurt it.. mephiston has a very long shot (odds) with a plasma pistol but otherwise cant hurt it and you can direct that str 10 punch right at mephistons head.. If he doesnt have a chaplain or one of the special characters (which ever one it is) then his DC (with attached characters) have to move towards the closest visible enemy unit... Shepard him around with a landspeeder - he is at long odds to hurt it if he makes contact but you can easily keep it out of 18' range and have it as the closest unit... You can get him to go backwards or sideways or whatever... Take him on a tour of the gaming table.. Sure he can get mephiston out of the unit in his turn but then Mephiston is solo and ripe for those lascannon and plasmagun shots to the face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kluft Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Just a quick reply to the above post. DC can certainly hurt dreads, infact they can kill dreads pretty good. Str 5 on charge +6 (for 1d6) + 1-3 (rend) Charging 5 death co get 20 attacks of which 3.333 will rend and 2 will pen 10 DC get 4 pen Not charging 5 dc get 1 pen on avg, 10 dc get 2 pen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockdeity Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 how about an epistolary libby with quickness? I10 + charged force weapon + no inv save. Just have to worry about the psychic hood, but then again, you can be challenging his powers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 how about an epistolary libby with quickness? I10 + charged force weapon + no inv save. Just have to worry about the psychic hood, but then again, you can be challenging his powers as well. Thought that might be a good idea once myself, but Mephiston has a psychic hood and therefore it just ain't reliable... I would say Dreads are best too, long as you can get the counter charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Augustus Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Dakka Predator all 95 points for it lets face it for 10 points who doesnt want anouther 2 shots (all be it a storm bolter but lets not forget ive seen a Drop Pod's storm bolter drop a blood thurster) 10 shots most being ap 3 so its not to be sniffed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 You get Pred destructors with most chots at AP3??? Gimme! But He's got a 2+ save anyway so that doesnt really make much difference. sternguard squad would probably toast him, dreadnought in CC, vindicator, lots of plasma shots (dev squad maybe if you get lucky on the scatters) or lascannons. Just dont get into combat with him with your usual big-hitters like termies or characters apart from Lysander or Marneus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Augustus Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 hmmm dont i look silly ap3 heavy bolter..... i looked at the heavy 3 and thought hmm must be ap any ways way i would do it i'd go chaos lash him somwhere safe then obliterate him back to the stone age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tual Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Charging5 death co get 20 attacks of which 3.333 will rend and 2 will pen 10 DC get 4 pen 20 attacks is 10 hits... 2 pen is above average.. and equates to a 2/3 chance at a kill AFTER all those 6's? So you need a - 4+ THEN a 6, AND THEN 3+ AND THEN a 5 or a 6... what else bar a landraider has better odds in the marine dex? AN IRONCLAD! hehe - the odds are long though... seriously.. even in 4th ed I felt safe with charging dreads into DC.. Mainly Ven. Dreads, but the stock standard will definately put up a good show.. Seriously, mathammer lysander and add in mephiston with the 5 DC and see what happens.. I think as a low point answer, a dread or ironclad is definately the most viable.. With the charge, dreads (including their own shooting on the way in) become rather strong as anti uber units.. Tigurius would be best.. simply for the str 6 increase.. a standard libby will struggle.. 4 attacks, 2 hits and needing a 5+ to wound.. but then, Tiggy is more points, and still open to the roughly 50% chance of being nullified on the instant kill - And then you still have a 2 wound char punching on with 5 crazy DC... My money is firmly on the dread or ironclad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Retreat Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Mephiston and his Honor Guard suffer from one thing - lack of invulnerable save. Calgar and Lysander can take him face-to-face, and Sicarious could on a lucky day. Really, any CC with an invulnerable save would work, such as a squad of TH/SS Termies. Numbers will carry the day, as the TH's will wound on 2's. A Combat Squad with Plasmagun/Combi-plasma will probably put him down. 3+/2+/No Save, and you just need 3(?) wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Just a thought, but if you're lucky Khan could probably take him down for a lot less pointswise than Calgar at least, and I think Lysander but I can't remember the points for him. I still feel dreads are best though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well: Khan 160 Lysander 200 Calgar 265 (with TDA) Either way big differences in points that could be nicely spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Retreat Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Khan would have to hack through his wounds, though. Possible, yes, but with Calgar or Lysander, you've got a good chance of a one-turn kill. Sicarious also has the chance, admittedly a lower chance with his Coup De Grace. Sometimes it's not about the points, it's about efficiency of getting the job done. If you can kill his scariest HQ in one round of assault, you've got the rest of the game to get the points back from a spendy character. Here's the baseline to kill him though - Invulnerable save! 4++ is nice (Captain/Master/Chaplain) as it will protect you from that Force Weapon, 3++ is better (SS). High WS - You have to actually hit! Chaplains can of boost this on the charge, but with Wings of Sanguinus, don't expect that to happen all the time, Powerweapon/Fist/Hammer - Letting him have a 2+ save is a no-go. Use something with power to bring him down, The Fist/Hammer won't instakill, but wounding on 2+ instead of 5+ makes a huge difference. Also, and I may be wrong on this, but isn't Lysander's hammer only Str 10 against vehicles? Or is it all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogstar168 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Gen. Retreat - your baseline is most helpful. and, yes, all hit from Lysander are Str 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Khan would have to hack through his wounds, though. No, he doesn't - he causes Instant Death on a 6 remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Used Khan today against Mephiston, although Khan got force weaponed he instapopped Meph also with a 6 to wound. Remember that Khan has the same In. as Meph when he charges. Funny that Meph was 65 points more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesdiablesrouge Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Dreadnoughts can instant kill mephiston yes ............ but you forget that if he's with the death co or tactical squad (why?????) death co do have rending but also have krak grenades like tactical squads etc. so they def can hurt a dreadnought - glancing hit (immobilise it at best - or take all weapons & immobilse twice and its dead). Best combination for mephiston is with corbula & cc terminators (3 claws, 2 hammers) in a LRC. If u charge out mephistons going at I7 S6 so he can glance a dreadnought - or speed past and plasma gun him in the rear). If you roll phsycic power might of heros give the extra D3 attacks give it to ur thunder hammer - then that dreads going down n better yet stand mephiston at the rear of the squad no base to base contact for u. Same goes for when moving around the board - leave mephiston at the back of the squad then when defenders react you can place him well away from power weapons, fists claws or dreadnoughts etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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