Ork Bike Nobs: Ah, but there's a catch...

[Viperion]

What is the best method for dispatching a mob of Ork Biker Nobs?

 

Here's the catch: No tanks. None. Nada. Zip. In fact no vehicles at all except for:

 

Landspeeders (Storm or otherwise)

Dreadnoughts

Drop Pods.

 

Not even Rhinos or Razorbacks.

 

So, what's the best way (point for point) for dealing with these hard-@@@ses?

 

Cheers,

Viperion

[eyescrossed]

This shouldn't be in the rules section.

[greatcrusade08]

This shouldn't be in the rules section.

 

???

 

Nobs on bikes, are T5 W2 with cover save and can be upgraded to FNP right?

 

Then what you need is lots of firepower, preferably in the form of heavy bolter/assault cannon for high strength and number of shots, of course S8 weapins will still insta-kill..

As for ridding them of cover saves, a heavy flamer is still the best toy in the box for that...

 

GC08

[kaiserstole20]

Until I got some vindicators I had the same dilemma. The answer for me was missile launchers. I think I had 7 in my last game between devastators and tacs.

[eyescrossed]

This shouldn't be in the rules section.

 

???

Don't play dumb with me - you know for a fact that this was in the rules section before it got moved.

[greatcrusade08]

Don't play dumb with me - you know for a fact that this was in the rules section before it got moved.

 

????

 

GC08

[eyescrossed]

Don't play dumb with me - you know for a fact that this was in the rules section before it got moved.

 

????

 

GC08

*Sigh* Before you edited your post, it ran along the lines of "your post isn't constructive, but you're right, it shouldn't be in the rules section" and then you changed it to question marks.

[Giga]

Missile launchers insta-kill nob bikerz just fine. Meltas are even better since they ignore their FNP, the only problem is the range.

 

On the other hand if you're into potentially self-destructive methods, a librarian with vortex of doom will shut them down just fine.

[greatcrusade08]

*Sigh* Before you edited your post, it ran along the lines of "your post isn't constructive, but you're right, it shouldn't be in the rules section" and then you changed it to question marks.

 

Ah yup your right, but i thought i was in the rules section too....when i realised i wasnt and couldnt find the re-direct i changed it to ???...

 

Back to OP, a nice uber unit will chop them up good, that way there is no cover saves or FNP...

Marneus and hammernators or some such...

 

GC08

[Jackelope King]

Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields are probably the best you're going to get (insta-killing, feel-no-pain and armor-ignoring, and power-klaw-eating-storm-shield-wearing).

 

The other strategy I've heard nice things about is spitting a few Thunderfire Cannon shots (of the subterranian variety) at the squad every turn and forcing them to make dangerous terrain checks and rolls to move through cover to slow them down and to deny them the 3+ cover save from turbo-boosting, but I've only started using one of these babies myself.

 

Finally, forcing them to chase a squad of attack bikes with multimeltas or eat a trio of nob-killing shots each turn is nice to disrupt their best-laid plans, even if you're being forced to shoot through their cover save.

[Arc]

Missile launchers insta-kill nob bikerz just fine. Meltas are even better since they ignore their FNP, the only problem is the range.

 

On the other hand if you're into potentially self-destructive methods, a librarian with vortex of doom will shut them down just fine.

 

Nope, Missile launchers will still negate their FNP just fine since you can't take it if it instant kills you.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

The best way to take out biker nobs are my drop pod ironclads with twin-linked heavy flamers and Ironclad assault launchers ^_^ Oh, your power klaw only get's three attacks? And it needs fives to glance while I instagib your bikers with four attacks ignoring your smoke and FNP? Well GG.

[Deathwing]

Wouldn't the nob bikers just run away from the Ironclad and hit something softer in that case? It would seem the sensible thing to do. For objective based missions, the Ironclad can't hold, just contest (while the nob bikers I do believe can hold) and in KPs the nob bikers could easily tear through easier targets (easily gaining more than 1 KP without too much loss). They would also be able to outrun the ironclad as it can't assault on the turn it drops.

 

Although, if the player is true to the ork way of thought, they would probably not do the sensible thing and try to rip apart the big giant robot.

 

One more thing to add, I agree with the TH & SS approach, but that again requires you to get to grips with a faster more mobile opponent which may or not work. The Thunderfire Cannon is an interesting idea and one that I've never considered (though as a Dark Angel we don't have access to them so it's kinda a moot point for me).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Missile launchers insta-kill nob bikerz just fine. Meltas are even better since they ignore their FNP, the only problem is the range.

 

No they don't, because they have 3+ cover saves (when they're not slowing down to shoot+assault things), 4+ cover standard, and the attached Warboss can FNP the krak rounds. Meltaguns will negate FNP on the Warboss, but he can still suck up meltagun wounds because he's T5.

 

On the other hand if you're into potentially self-destructive methods, a librarian with vortex of doom will shut them down just fine.

 

He won't get an oppertunity to use it. The Nobz Bikers will roar up the board and munch the Libby+attached squad to death before he can cast it.

 

The other strategy I've heard nice things about is spitting a few Thunderfire Cannon shots (of the subterranian variety) at the squad every turn and forcing them to make dangerous terrain checks and rolls to move through cover to slow them down and to deny them the 3+ cover save from turbo-boosting, but I've only started using one of these babies myself.

 

Thats not a bad idea. Negates their 3+ cover (which is a major reason why massed S8+ doesn't work on them with shooting), and you can control their movement until your clean-up crew (the TH+SS guys with Pedro) show up to smash them to death.

 

Finally, forcing them to chase a squad of attack bikes with multimeltas or eat a trio of nob-killing shots each turn is nice to disrupt their best-laid plans, even if you're being forced to shoot through their cover save.

 

Not really. They can catch those bikes and kill them, and they'll only lose maybe 1-2 models to the multi-meltas on the one turn you get to shoot them.

 

The best way to take out biker nobs are my drop pod ironclads with twin-linked heavy flamers and Ironclad assault launchers devil.gif Oh, your power klaw only get's three attacks? And it needs fives to glance while I instagib your bikers with four attacks ignoring your smoke and FNP? Well GG.

 

May I remind you that he'll have 3-4 powerklaws, plus the Warboss? Even with losing the charge bonus, they're still putting out 14-17 x powerklaw attacks, which is enough to wreck your Iron-Clad quite easily. You do go first, but you'll only hit with 2 of your attacks on average (they have WS5 from their 'Waagh! Banner' bearer), and he'll likely save one wound with cybork (it's a 5+). So, at best you mush 1-2 Nob Bikers, then the surviving Warboss+powerklaws hit home and demolish the Dreadnought.

As for the twin-heavy flamers, you'll only cause as many wounds as you get hits. In this case, you'll hit probably 6-7 models (depending on how big his Nob Biker units are), and probably wound with 5 hits (due to S5 and re-rolls). He then has 5+ cybork and FNP against it, plus funky wound allocation to prevent any one Nob dying.

 

One more thing to add, I agree with the TH & SS approach, but that again requires you to get to grips with a faster more mobile opponent which may or not work. The Thunderfire Cannon is an interesting idea and one that I've never considered (though as a Dark Angel we don't have access to them so it's kinda a moot point for me).

 

Thats why you have Landraiders :) so you can box them in and assault them. At worst he'll charge the Raiders and rip them to pieces, but that then leaves them stranded in front of your angry TH+SS squad. You then charge and win combat, then run them down (unless boss-pole restores order).

[foster]

This shouldn't be in the rules section.

 

???

 

Nobs on bikes, are T5 W2 with cover save and can be upgraded to FNP right?

 

Then what you need is lots of firepower, preferably in the form of heavy bolter/assault cannon for high strength and number of shots, of course S8 weapins will still insta-kill..

As for ridding them of cover saves, a heavy flamer is still the best toy in the box for that...

 

GC08

 

Nobs can have a medik that grants the unit feel no pain, if you take him out that the squad loses that ability.

 

For fire power and lots of strength 8 hits usually a Land Raider Crusdor and Terminator Assualt Squad is perfect for taking those bikers out, but steep on points. This is pretty much the standard unit to use against Nob bikers, but if you don't feel like spending 500pts on a single unit then lets all think what other units can be used instead.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Nobs can have a medik that grants the unit feel no pain, if you take him out that the squad loses that ability.

 

Yeah, but he's next to impossible to kill, given how tough the Nob Painboy is anyway, plus the quality of the ablative wounds surrounding him. Vindicare Asasssin and Telion are really the only ones that can take him out.

 

For fire power and lots of strength 8 hits usually a Land Raider Crusdor and Terminator Assualt Squad is perfect for taking those bikers out, but steep on points. This is pretty much the standard unit to use against Nob bikers, but if you don't feel like spending 500pts on a single unit then lets all think what other units can be used instead.

 

For non-vehicle units thats really your only option. On the plus side, that combination is good against virtually all other armies, so you aren't tailoring yourself into a corner (ie making yourself too good against one army build, while neglecting others).

 

If we talk about tanks, Vindicators are the best answer. Remember to screen them with infantry, so the Nobz are forced to shoot down the Marines first before they can tackle the Vindicator itself. S10 AP2 will quickly kill them off, even while turbo-boosting.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Wouldn't the nob bikers just run away from the Ironclad and hit something softer in that case? It would seem the sensible thing to do. For objective based missions, the Ironclad can't hold, just contest (while the nob bikers I do believe can hold) and in KPs the nob bikers could easily tear through easier targets (easily gaining more than 1 KP without too much loss). They would also be able to outrun the ironclad as it can't assault on the turn it drops.

 

Although, if the player is true to the ork way of thought, they would probably not do the sensible thing and try to rip apart the big giant robot.

 

One more thing to add, I agree with the TH & SS approach, but that again requires you to get to grips with a faster more mobile opponent which may or not work. The Thunderfire Cannon is an interesting idea and one that I've never considered (though as a Dark Angel we don't have access to them so it's kinda a moot point for me).

 

 

They could, and also be letting My ironclad go for their objective holders as well. I've never seen an Ork player who doesn't have the ideology, "If I hit it with a power klaw, it goes splat!" Defensive grenades are very rare for MEQ and most ork players won't see it coming. Especially when the Ironclads are the only thing I have on the table at the time (Full DP list)

[Deathwing]

They could, and also be letting My ironclad go for their objective holders as well. I've never seen an Ork player who doesn't have the ideology, "If I hit it with a power klaw, it goes splat!" Defensive grenades are very rare for MEQ and most ork players won't see it coming. Especially when the Ironclads are the only thing I have on the table at the time (Full DP list)

 

If the ork player ignores the Ironclad(s) and you use it to go after the ork objective holders and contest, I think it won't be so bad for the ork player. The nob bikers can wipe out your objective holders (and other troop options) and then hold onto yours. Game ends in favour of the orks 1 objective to none. That is assuming none of your scoring units make it to the ork objective and the nob bikers wipe out whatever is at your objective(s). Keep in mind that the Ironclads are too slow and short-ranged to threaten the bikers if they choose another target to go after. If you drop all your troops on the ork objective, it will make it easier for the nob bikers to wipe out all your troops (bunched together would allow the nob bikes to charge multiple units) and then turbo boost away.

Anyways, now we're entering the realm of what-if's and I don't want to go there.

 

As Reclusiarch Darius pointed out, the nob unit would probably have 3-4 power klaws and even an Ironclad won't last long against that (though arguably longer than a regular dreadnought). A tarpit unit could render the nob bikers useless for a time, but I don't think the marines have one.

I have to admit the wound allocation rules makes nob squads a lot harder to deal with when they are equipped properly and used by someone who knows how the rule works. I never noticed that the ork player could direct S8 hits to the warboss and he would still get his FNP against some of them. That's just diabolical.

 

Sadly, given that the OP has no Land Raiders, trying to get a TH & SS terminator squad to the nob bikers may be a problem but is still one of the best approaches. Pie plates are good, but again the OP doesn't have the vehicles to use that strategy (though a pair of chapter masters might work ok)

[greatcrusade08]

Ive been scratching my head thinking of ways to beat Nobs on bikes, and it came to me..

 

SNIPERS.... wounds on 4+, occasional rending, cheap and numerous enough to kill a couple off even with cover saves, and if you include Telion he can take out the Medik

 

GC08

[Viperion]

Just to address a couple of points that have come up:

 

1) There aren't any weapons (I think?) that BOTH ignore cover and are Strength 8+, so either the Nobs will get FNP or they'll get cover. This pretty much can't be avoided, can it?

 

2) I don't own any tanks. Although I MAY be able to scrounge up a Rhino from somewhere, something like a Vindicator or Land Raider is beyond my means at the moment.

 

Personally I'm leaning towards lots of Missile Launchers, as they'll be useful against the rest of the Ork force as well, and Krak missiles will only give the Nobs their cover saves.

 

Anyone know what's more effective - ignoring the 3+ cover save, or ignoring the FNP roll? (Basically do I go for S8 shots, or heavy flamers?) I haven't run the math or have the inclination to do so.

 

Also, I'm not necessarily looking for a one-unit uber death kill, combined tactics (within the parameters) are fine too. I like the long range death of Missile Launchers, plus one or more drop podded Ironclads sounds like fun ;)

 

Oh, and I am planning on taking Telion to deal with the Painboy (eventually, but 36" range does go a long way, if you'll pardon the pun)

 

Cheers,

 

Viperion

[greatcrusade08]

Just to address a couple of points that have come up:

 

1) There aren't any weapons (I think?) that BOTH ignore cover and are Strength 8+, so either the Nobs will get FNP or they'll get cover. This pretty much can't be avoided, can it?

Thunderhammers or power fists only...but those are CC

 

Oh, and I am planning on taking Telion to deal with the Painboy (eventually, but 36" range does go a long way, if you'll pardon the pun)

 

Classic :P, take away FNP and use heavy flamers to kill them off.

 

GC08

[Viperion]

Thunderhammers or power fists only...but those are CC

Yeah, I've heard you don't get cover saves in CC :P Getting into CC with guys on bikes is a bit of a trick, assuming the opponent isn't dumb enough to charge your bait unit... The trick I guess is to give them no choice in the matter.

 

Classic :P, take away FNP and use heavy flamers to kill them off.

Yep kinda liking this theory but not sure how to make it work... food for thought there!

 

Viperion

[greatcrusade08]

Classic :D, take away FNP and use heavy flamers to kill them off.

Yep kinda liking this theory but not sure how to make it work... food for thought there!

 

Viperion

Cheap speeders, if you take a squadron of 3, you shoot with each one before they remove casulties, this way you can do the 2 wounds to each nob quite easily.

 

GC08

[Giga]

No they don't, because they have 3+ cover saves (when they're not slowing down to shoot+assault things), 4+ cover standard, and the attached Warboss can FNP the krak rounds. Meltaguns will negate FNP on the Warboss, but he can still suck up meltagun wounds because he's T5.

I never said they'd never get a save. Getting around that cover save is never an easy thing. :P

 

Best way (apart from th/ss terminators in a land raider and/or something really killy like a vindicator) to deal with nob bikerz is volume of high strength fire. Throw enough high str shots at them and they're bound to fail cover saves, and with a little luck these will end up instakilling stuff.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

TH/SS rips through them.

They can invul and FNP HFs, but 5+/4+ is better than 4+/4+ from your PoV.

Vulkan helps.

No tanks means TH/SS though.