foster Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 *Sigh* I guess I'll toss out the absolute best way in the current ruleset of 40k to completely and totally ruin a Nob Bike unit/list. Deploy/move to the second floor of a set of ruins. Yeah, it's that simple. Bikes cannot move to floors higher than the first and so, they can never be in base to base contact with you to assault. Stand around and pelt them with bolter shells and bad words all game while they cry. You even get a cover save from their abysmal shooting, not that you need it since you're rocking 3+ armor or better. If an objective based game, deploy objectives accordingly. If no ruins, see all prior posts. Not exactly the best strategy since they get lots of str 5 shots with their bike weapons (can't remember if they're twin-linked or how many shots, but it's alot), as well as the option my brother uses by equiping them all with combi flamers at 5 pts per modal. No matter what you can't hide and shoot them so you're gonna need something hard hitting or another strategy instead of "hiding in buildings", which is what my brother wants me to do so his other units can hit me at initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Because I quite clearly stated TWICE in this very topic that I don't have, and can't get, any vehicles? Apart from that it's a great idea. :lol: Doing it with vehicles is significantly easier, but I don't have any!!!!! Reading FTW people.... Viperion In my 3 games against Nob Bikers they've never got the charge on my terminatators. Why? Because they are in a land raider. The problem with the Nob Bikers is that they can generally engage 1/2 of your army. By turboosting the first turn they get a 3+ cover save, a FNP roll for most things that get through that. Then they shoot and assault the following turn. In 3 games the most I've been able to kill off before they hit my lines is 3 Nob Bikers, thats still 6 Bikers the PainBoy and the warboss. The only way to stop them is to insta kill them or hope for some great luck from the dice gods if you are playing space marines. Ok as the OP said, no vehicles, so your termis will have to foot slog to the nob bikers.... you can say with decent certinaty that the nobz will not get into combat with the termis.... which lends even more strength to my idea of VGV, the jump packs give them the mobality required to chase the bikers down, yes alone they will not kill a fully kitted unit of PK bikers, but you'll have a minimum of 2 other units for the nobz bikes points cost to weaken them with before the VGV hit.. This tactic may not work for everyone, but i've had great success in combining units to counter strengths of 'uber' units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlessedSword Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 If your going to assault them, than use Honour Guard or Assault Terminators, you want power weapon attacks because of FNP and 4+ Armour Saves, and you want either crapload of attacks at higher initiative or fewer attacks at S8. Vanguards upgraded with power weapons are simply not worth their point value in comparison to these other two units and lack the assault power. You should also take into consideration including a commander that bolsters your melee capability like Kantor or Khan, preferably Kantor since he automatically gives you the option of taking an Honour Guard. TH/SS Assault Terminators are the best choice due to S8 instakilling and the 3+ invulnerable save. A fully loaded squad will absolutely pulverize the Nob Biker Squad. Chapter Master Pedro Kantor x 1 – 175 - Power Fist - Power Armour Assault Terminators (10) x 1 – 400 - Thunder Hammer - Stormshields Compared to a similarly priced Nob Biker Squad Nob Bikers (8) x 1 - 590 - Pain Boy - Eavy Armour & Cybork Bodies - Waaaagh Banner - Powerklaws x 2 Nobs strike first with 24 S4 attacks, of those, 16 hit, 8 wound, 1.33 get past the armour save meaning you lose 1-2 terminators, we'll assume 2. The Terminators and Powerklaws than strike at the same time, the Terminators attack with 32 S8 attacks, of those, 16 hit, 13.33 wound, 8.88 are unsaved meaning 8-9 of the Nob Bikers get instakilled right on the spot. Kantor also strikes with 4 S8 attacks, of those on average, 2.66 on hit, 2.22 wound, and 1.41 are unsaved meaning chances are likely that the nob biker squad gets annihilated after the first turn of assault. The Nob Power Klaws get 6 attacks, 4 hits, 3.33 wounds, 1.11 unsaved meaning in total you will on average lose around 2-3 Assault Terminators before likely annihilating the Nob Squad, not a bad deal. An Honour Guard squad can take the Nob Biker squad when properly outfitted (although in my configuration, it would require taking a Chapter Master and Kor'sarro). Kor'sarro Khan x 1 – 160 - Moonfang - Power Armour Honour Guard (10) x 1 – 400 - Champion w/ Relic Blade - Sacred Banner Total points is 560 which is again comparable to the Nob Biker squad used previously. The entire squad gets Furious Charge which is useful in this situation given that everything is T5. Lets say you get the charge, all the bolt pistols inflicts a single wound on around 1 Nob Biker based on the previous calculations. Korsarro strikes first with 5 S5 attacks, of those, 3.33 hit and 1.66 wound, 1.11 unsaved. In total, 2 of the Nobs now have 1 wound on them on average. Every Honor Guard member than gets 5 attacks on the charge meaning you'll be dishing out 45 S5 attack. Of those attacks, 22.5 hit and 11.25 wound on average, 7.5 of which are unsaved, all the Nobs now have 1 wound, of the two that were already wounded, one or both are killed off, leaving 6-7 Nob Bikers left. The Champion strikes with 5 S7 attacks, of those, 3.33 hit and 2.77 wound, 1.85 go unsaved about 2 more Nobs are killed right now, leaving 4-5 left, we'll say 5. Of the 5 Nobs, 3 strike with 12 S4 attacks, 8 hit, 4 wound, .66 go unsaved meaning 0-1 Honour Guard are killed on average, 6 S8 attacks arethan made, 4 hit, 3.33 wound, all go unsaved meaning in total 3-4 Honour Guard get killed off. The Honour Guard win the assault, if Nobs don't retreat, they will most likely be wiped out the next round. Still the Honour Guard are less effective against the Nobs than the terminators (although they can arguably be more effective against other Ork units). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foster Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 If your going to assault them, than use Honour Guard or Assault Terminators, you want power weapon attacks because of FNP and 4+ Armour Saves, and you want either crapload of attacks at higher initiative or fewer attacks at S8. Vanguards upgraded with power weapons are simply not worth their point value in comparison to these other two units and lack the assault power. You should also take into consideration including a commander that bolsters your melee capability like Kantor or Khan, preferably Kantor since he automatically gives you the option of taking an Honour Guard. TH/SS Assault Terminators are the best choice due to S8 instakilling and the 3+ invulnerable save. A fully loaded squad will absolutely pulverize the Nob Biker Squad. Chapter Master Pedro Kantor x 1 – 175 - Power Fist - Power Armour Assault Terminators (10) x 1 – 400 - Thunder Hammer - Stormshields Compared to a similarly priced Nob Biker Squad Nob Bikers (8) x 1 - 590 - Pain Boy - Eavy Armour & Cybork Bodies - Waaaagh Banner - Powerklaws x 2 Nobs strike first with 24 S4 attacks, of those, 16 hit, 8 wound, 1.33 get past the armour save meaning you lose 1-2 terminators, we'll assume 2. The Terminators and Powerklaws than strike at the same time, the Terminators attack with 32 S8 attacks, of those, 16 hit, 13.33 wound, 8.88 are unsaved meaning 8-9 of the Nob Bikers get instakilled right on the spot. Kantor also strikes with 4 S8 attacks, of those on average, 2.66 on hit, 2.22 wound, and 1.41 are unsaved meaning chances are likely that the nob biker squad gets annihilated after the first turn of assault. The Nob Power Klaws get 6 attacks, 4 hits, 3.33 wounds, 1.11 unsaved meaning in total you will on average lose around 2-3 Assault Terminators before likely annihilating the Nob Squad, not a bad deal. An Honour Guard squad can take the Nob Biker squad when properly outfitted (although in my configuration, it would require taking a Chapter Master and Kor'sarro). Kor'sarro Khan x 1 – 160 - Moonfang - Power Armour Honour Guard (10) x 1 – 400 - Champion w/ Relic Blade - Sacred Banner Total points is 560 which is again comparable to the Nob Biker squad used previously. The entire squad gets Furious Charge which is useful in this situation given that everything is T5. Lets say you get the charge, all the bolt pistols inflicts a single wound on around 1 Nob Biker based on the previous calculations. Korsarro strikes first with 5 S5 attacks, of those, 3.33 hit and 1.66 wound, 1.11 unsaved. In total, 2 of the Nobs now have 1 wound on them on average. Every Honor Guard member than gets 5 attacks on the charge meaning you'll be dishing out 45 S5 attack. Of those attacks, 22.5 hit and 11.25 wound on average, 7.5 of which are unsaved, all the Nobs now have 1 wound, of the two that were already wounded, one or both are killed off, leaving 6-7 Nob Bikers left. The Champion strikes with 5 S7 attacks, of those, 3.33 hit and 2.77 wound, 1.85 go unsaved about 2 more Nobs are killed right now, leaving 4-5 left, we'll say 5. Of the 5 Nobs, 3 strike with 12 S4 attacks, 8 hit, 4 wound, .66 go unsaved meaning 0-1 Honour Guard are killed on average, 6 S8 attacks arethan made, 4 hit, 3.33 wound, all go unsaved meaning in total 3-4 Honour Guard get killed off. The Honour Guard win the assault, if Nobs don't retreat, they will most likely be wiped out the next round. Still the Honour Guard are less effective against the Nobs than the terminators (although they can arguably be more effective against other Ork units). I personnally plan to go hunt Nob Bikers with a 6 man Terminator Squad with Kantor, but I will have them in a Land Raider Crusader plus multi-melta to help me catch those bikers. Very expensive for 675pts which is over a 1/4 of my army, worth it if they get to do their jobs. The only problem I see is that Kantor might die before the TH/SS's are able to strike, which would mean losing 1+ attack bonus and an expensive modal. Might not matter anyway since the Nob bikers are going to die anyway, just wanted to get that out there. On second thought's is an IC really needed to go with this unit? It just seems we're going abit over board here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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