infowar Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hey, I'm building a BL army and I really want to put a Lash Sorc in with my 9 man Kberz squad in their rhino. I know Khorne hates sorcery, but I wondered what the general opinion on this is. It seems like in BL itself, these opposed forces would always be working together anyway, albeit grudgingly and with a greater goal in mind. (I already have a Tz Termi Lord, so I have units of all the powers except for Nurgle.) More importantly perhaps, Is this sort of thing ever disallowed at 40k events? I am quite new to the game and I have spent the past several hours looking into this question, so please don't nuke me if this is a dumb/obvious question. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 It is not disallowed that i have ever heard of. Is it unfluffy? Sort of. None of the Chaos Gods get along that well, but It is Slaanesh that is Khorne's major enemy not Tzeentch. Khorne followers have a healthy distrust of Sorcerers and view sorcery as weak and cowardly, but it is not the same sort of hate they'd have for slaanesh. If it was a Slaanesh sorcerer though that would be the worst of both worlds. However, it is Black Legion. And in Black Legion stuff like this is allowed and tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowar Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Very helpful, thanks. Do you think it might be better to make the Berzerkers a 10 man squad and sort of keep the separate Sorc behind their screen, but still able to push/pull things near them as chance permits? I've been looking into a bike or mount Sorc that might work in a scenario like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Not only do brzrkrs hate sorc's, but khorne hates slanny more then anyone/anything else. The sorc would be dead before the hatch was closed on the rino. This dex falls way short on fluff. So yea, anyone who cares anything about fluff would definately frown on this. I've been a BL player for more then a decade and seen 4 codices (or army list) come and go and Brzrkrs would not be wking w slanny sorc's much less in the same squad even in a BL army. The current dex does a terrible job with the BL fluff, it seems the guys that wrote this dex couldn't be bothered to take 45 minutes or so to read the established fluff of the BL the went back to 2nd ed. IMO there is no greater fluff infraction possible in chaos then to but a slanny sorc in a squad of brzrkrs. It is not disallowed in tourneys b/c it is allowed in this codex, but you could (and should) take a hit on comp. or sportmanship scores. If you really want to know BL fluff, get your eyeballs on codex csm's 3 (not a great dex but a good blurb on BL fluff), codex csm 3.5 (expanded, more detailed fluff on BL), the WD with the IA for BL (a whole artical on BL :angry: ), and the oldest and IMO some of the best BL fluff "Slaves to Darkness" the codex rule book back in 2nd ed. You could try using searchy on these forum to find some of these things but I'm not sure how well it will wk on a fluff topic. Or you can PM me and I will give you the readers digest version or BL fluff (it'll take me several days to get around to it ;) ) Welcome to BL and the B&C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowar Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Well, thanks for the info. I agree that it's very unclear to a new 40k gamer, going by the latest rulebook and codex, exactly what role the fluff is supposed to play in actually playing the game. I think there should be some clear rules or at least some restrictions on violating the fluff, as you say. I have a big stack of White Dwarfs and they don't seem to take it too seriously in their demo games. I do recall reading in the forums somewhere that the Marks of Chaos have changed a great deal to allow just the sort of thing my original question was about, but somebody who wasn't interested researching the fluff would probably just look for the most effective combinations. Under the Chaos deity section of the CSM codex, I don't recall even a hint that the gods are opposed to one another. Having said that, "you go to war with the army you have," to quote the spectacular Donald Rumsfeld (sarcasm). I'm pretty much done buying the models for the army I am building, so I guess I'll have Khorne and Slaanesh units in the same army. Having been warned, I wouldn't now put a Slaanesh character with the Zerks, but I'm still going to have to use them in most cases. I have a lot of Slaanesh icons/marks in my list and changing that would cost points. Hopefully if I keep said models rather far apart and don't make it too blatantly unfluffy-looking to my unfortunate opponents in the future, I can maintain a reputation somewhat above that of an ordinary slime mold. Thanks again for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Fluff reasons aside, i wouldn't put a lash sorc with zerks anyhow. Give it wings and have it squad hop arond and hang out in whichever transports don't have 10 man squads. And don't forget that I6 force weapons are amazing when facing ICs, most of which are I5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 They go well in a raptor unit using flight. Having an instant killer and a first turn assault unit is very promising especially at the size of 20 in one squad. Makes for a powerful charge, dont mind the gun losses with 2x10 raptors, namely with icon of slaanesh. RUn down the enemy and make good on single turn squad wipers. 12" move, lash average 7" to you, 6" assault (25", where most are 24"-18" from you). People wont be too mad because it isnt a prince, use only one and they have no room to complain. Its a simple synergy with 2 choices, raptors and sorcerer. Fist the champ for all-rounded combat. And your good to go. Also as a side note, ranged sorcerer joining a small bike unit with 2 plasma guns+combi-using champ is a decent little ranged unit that can get close in a hurry and envelope an area in hot stuff. (3 flamers+wind of chaos for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Fluff reasons aside, i wouldn't put a lash sorc with zerks anyhow. Give it wings and have it squad hop arond and hang out in whichever transports don't have 10 man squads. And don't forget that I6 force weapons are amazing when facing ICs, most of which are I5! And 3+/4+ invulnerable saves or ethernal warrior :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Fluff reasons aside, i wouldn't put a lash sorc with zerks anyhow. Give it wings and have it squad hop arond and hang out in whichever transports don't have 10 man squads. And don't forget that I6 force weapons are amazing when facing ICs, most of which are I5! And 3+/4+ invulnerable saves or ethernal warrior :tu: The only Eternal Warriors i can think of off the top of my head are daemon princes, avatars, and a couple special characters that are rarely seen. The only 3+ invuls i can think of are storm shield marine commands and, necro lords maybe? There are certainly a lot more 4+ or 5+ without EW :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Fluff reasons aside, i wouldn't put a lash sorc with zerks anyhow. Give it wings and have it squad hop arond and hang out in whichever transports don't have 10 man squads. And don't forget that I6 force weapons are amazing when facing ICs, most of which are I5! And 3+/4+ invulnerable saves or ethernal warrior ;) The only Eternal Warriors i can think of off the top of my head are daemon princes, avatars, and a couple special characters that are rarely seen. The only 3+ invuls i can think of are storm shield marine commands and, necro lords maybe? There are certainly a lot more 4+ or 5+ without EW :woot: Heh, but who use something other than Daemon Prince when playing chaos (yes, i use chaos lords and sorcerers mainly, but fluff player does not count!) ? Who not use Storm Shield when he play SM (or ethernal warrior character)(yes, i not use storm shield, but i stated already that fluff players does not count!) ? Really only viable target is Ork Warboss. Necron Lord have 4++ inv, Eldar Characters also have 4++ inv - sometimes with re-roll. Tyranids have ethernal warrior, Daemons Have ethernal warrior, SoB have 2++ inv if they use act of faith. Ig characters will be not independent characters, Inquisitors have retinue. What i missed ? Tau ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Fluff reasons aside, i wouldn't put a lash sorc with zerks anyhow. Give it wings and have it squad hop arond and hang out in whichever transports don't have 10 man squads. And don't forget that I6 force weapons are amazing when facing ICs, most of which are I5! And 3+/4+ invulnerable saves or ethernal warrior :( The only Eternal Warriors i can think of off the top of my head are daemon princes, avatars, and a couple special characters that are rarely seen. The only 3+ invuls i can think of are storm shield marine commands and, necro lords maybe? There are certainly a lot more 4+ or 5+ without EW :D Heh, but who use something other than Daemon Prince when playing chaos (yes, i use chaos lords and sorcerers mainly, but fluff player does not count!) ? Who not use Storm Shield when he play SM (or ethernal warrior character)(yes, i not use storm shield, but i stated already that fluff players does not count!) ? Really only viable target is Ork Warboss. Necron Lord have 4++ inv, Eldar Characters also have 4++ inv - sometimes with re-roll. Tyranids have ethernal warrior, Daemons Have ethernal warrior, SoB have 2++ inv if they use act of faith. Ig characters will be not independent characters, Inquisitors have retinue. What i missed ? Tau ? Are you really arguing that force weapons are useless because their targets get saving throws agianst them and they arn't good against every single HQ choice? Well duh. What is? You could apply that argument to any ability of any character in any codex. They are still the best option for killing ICs even if they do have a good invul, and if they have EW you stay away and keep lashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Well, thats my point. They are not reliable, and people tend to protect their character against ID weapons. I cant remember when i played last time against army where i would choose sorcerer instead of daemon prince (or even instead lord with daemon weapon), if i would have option to do that in re-match scenario (as my only change). Sorcerer is good against most HQ choices. People tend to choose the other HQ choices :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_wu Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 The sorcerer can take out tau commanders well as well although that is not very difficult. Invul saves on the tau commander is a points sink. You also could do it against crisis suits with drones if one of your wounds gets on a crisis suit force weapon the crisis suit which will kill any attached drones. Remember you can still use force weapon against a lot of things without eternal warrior that still have multiple wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Well, thats my point. They are not reliable, and people tend to protect their character against ID weapons. I cant remember when i played last time against army where i would choose sorcerer instead of daemon prince (or even instead lord with daemon weapon), if i would have option to do that in re-match scenario (as my only change). Sorcerer is good against most HQ choices. People tend to choose the other HQ choices :P Yeah, and this doesn't disagree with what i originally said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Well, thats my point. They are not reliable, and people tend to protect their character against ID weapons. I cant remember when i played last time against army where i would choose sorcerer instead of daemon prince (or even instead lord with daemon weapon), if i would have option to do that in re-match scenario (as my only change). Sorcerer is good against most HQ choices. People tend to choose the other HQ choices Yeah, and this doesn't disagree with what i originally said. Sure. I should've been more clear in my earlier posts (it's common in my case unfortunetely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowar Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 any suggestions on actually modeling the wings on a metal chaos sorc? I don't think I'm good enough with green stuff yet to sculpt them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Night Stalker: Ah, no problem. Infowar: If you want simple wings, try the possessed winged backpack, or the little bone wings from the spawn sprue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 This kind of thing is exactly why I and many like me cannot stand the new codex. New players have no way of knowing the intricacies of various chaos armies and what is or isn't a faux pas because the codex just skips most of what made chaos interesting in the first place. Just so you know, there used to be a rule called "Ancient Enemies" which meant that if your HQ had say mark of khorne you couldn't take slaanesh units and vice versa because khorne and slaanesh hate each other. Also a khorne character could not join a slaanesh squad as far as I remember. Now it's all a mishmash free for all because apparently the last codex couldn't be properly understood by people with double digit IQ's so GW "streamlined" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infowar Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Well the codex isn't exactly new anymore, fortunately. I've been wondering how soon we can expect a new CSM codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 4+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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