DevianID Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hi all, I was wondering--of the daemon generals here, what is your stance on Fate Crusher? Also, is there other tourney builds that perform better than fate crusher? For those unaware, Fate Crusher is a daemon build that uses Fateweaver with many bloodcrushers. The reroll save from Fateweaver makes everything nearby as close to invincible as it gets. A typical list at 1500 might be: Fateweaver 8 Bloodcrushers with all upgrades (for wound allocation ala nob bikers) 1x5 plague bearers 1x5 horror with changeling and bolt 1x8 plaguebearer with icon 3 grinders with either s8 ap3 blast or s10 ap1--depending on prefrence Obviously the idea is that very few people will be able to kill the daemons fast enough, and once the crushers assault then its over. Dreads are killed by fateweaver, the horrors, or the grinders, to open up the way for the bloodcrushers--and other than dreads there is not much that can beat bloodcrushers. I know some other units are popular (fiends of slanesh) but they tend to lose to other 'cheesed' lists; while this one has fewer bad metagames thanks to the resiliancy. Is there a more effective build, or is fatecrusher at the top for tourney play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Well, Crushers are death to anything. This lists biggest weakness is Fateweaver, who even with a rerollable 3++ is only T5 and thus easily bought down by sustained firepower. Also, I think your troops would lack the resiliance they need for objective holding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Honestly, you'd never catch me playing that army at a tourny. You basically have no scoring units, and you basically have what? Two units that take advantage the good oracle. Now, a better Fateweaver list (imo) would be this: Fateweaver, a few fiends, a fair amount of plaguebearers, some princes (preferable winged Nurgle ones, problem is they cost a lot). With this list, the idea is that Kairos and the princes go up in a 'V' formation and tear the heart out of the enemy while the fiends pick off fire support units. The enemy has to take out the MCs (if he can) and Nurgle princes with re=rollable saves are not gonna die any time soon. Even so, I'm not sure it's all that great of a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 the Idea of the Nurgle princes with re-roll saves seems a little better.. Nurgle princes are very hard to kill, and with the re-roll saves.. it's just evil.. Altough Crushers can destroy almost everything they assault.. problem is to have enough troops to still be able to score some objectives with such lists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
==Me== Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Crushers destroy what they assault, but who's stupid enough to let them assault you? Crushers move 6" and have ridiculously large bases, so you either have to risk mishapping or taking dangerous terrain or deploy in open terrain. Crushers can't kill Dreads and other AV12+ walkers, Crushers are slow as hell, and Crushers are slow as hell. A Mech army will have a field day with that build as you have nothing to hurt tanks and they can avoid your non-scoring uber unit all day. If I'm running Fateweaver, it's with Tzeentch DPs, Horrors, Seekers, Flamers, and Fiends. It's much more mobile, capable against mech, and still hits plenty hard. Bloodcrushers are like Nob Bikers and Monoliths, scary on paper and great for smashing noobs and people who don't know how to counter them, but laughably easy to handle once you've figured them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 If I were to build a list for tournaments, I'd go with some big heavy hitters. I think Bloodthirsters are pretty much the essential in any assault army, and seeing as daemons are primarily assault, I'd rather use them. I've been playing around with some lists, and here's one I came up with. HQ Bloodthirster x2 -Unholy Might Elite Bloodcrusher x3 -Fury of Khorne Troops Plaguebearers x10 -Insturment Plaguebearers x10 Heavy Support Soul Grinder -Phlegm Soul Grinder -Tongue Daemon Prince -Wings -Iron Hide -Unholy Might -Mark of Khorne Just something I came up with quick. Aren't most tournies 1850 now, though? With 1850 you could do a lot more... I like my heavy hitters, and I'd even be tempted to throw in another DP or 2 and have 5 winged monstrous creatures to descend upon the enemy. I've never run this list, seeing as I only have one Bloodthirster model. But it's tempting to try out... For 1850, I've run this a number of times... HQ Bloodthirster -Unholy Might Great Unclean One -Aura of Decay -Breath of Chaos Elite Bloodcrusher x4 -Fury of Khorne Troops Bloodletters x15 -Instrument Bloodletters x14 Plaguebearers x7 Plaguebearers x7 Heavy Support Soul Grinder -Tongue Daemon Prince x2 -Iron Hide -Mark of Nurgle -Noxious Touch -Breath of Chaos Comes out to 1849. The DPs may not have wings, but I usually have the shutzpah to DS them close enough to the enemy to make wings unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 If I were to build a list for tournaments, I'd go with some big heavy hitters. I think Bloodthirsters are pretty much the essential in any assault army, and seeing as daemons are primarily assault, I'd rather use them. I've been playing around with some lists, and here's one I came up with. HQ Bloodthirster x2 -Unholy Might Elite Bloodcrusher x3 -Fury of Khorne Troops Plaguebearers x10 -Insturment Plaguebearers x10 Heavy Support Soul Grinder -Phlegm Soul Grinder -Tongue Daemon Prince -Wings -Iron Hide -Unholy Might -Mark of Khorne if your first army list is 1000 points them i think i got a list to counter that. and the fatecrusher. 2x Herald of Tzeenech 2x chariot 2x breath of chaos 2x mastery of sorcery 200 2x Herald of Tzeenech 2x chariot 2x breath of chaos 2x mastery of sorcery 200 1x bloodcrusher 40pts 1x bloodcrusher 40pts 10x bloodletter 160 10x bloodletter 160 1x deamon prince 1x deamonic gaze 100 1x deamon prince 1x deamonic gaze 100 i worked out a little maths yesterday while making this list, 10 BL can hold there own aginst a bt for a max of 3 turns roughly and equally deal 2 wounds to the GD. while my heralds and DP can annihilate a GD in one turns worth of shooting. if that isnt enough i have about the same number of BC as Duskraider and roughly enough BL to do the rest. However i cant kill the SG in shooting ill just assault it and it will die in one turn or two ;). what do you think? i dont like fateweaver as he can bug out of the game at any time effectively loosing 33% of your army. thanks antique_nova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 I think fatecrucher needs more than 1000 points to be effective, as fateweaver's main ability is the save bonus, but at 1000 you dont have enough units making use of the reroll saves to be worth it. However, no tournies I know of run less than 1500 points, and most doubles around here run 2x1000 so even then the force multiplier of fateweaver gets better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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