shaolin saiyan Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 what were some of the greatest rivalries that were formed during the heresy? i know some like the if and iw, the ec and we, and the sw and ts.but i'd like to know more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Leman Russ - Lion El Johnson Leman Russ - Magnus Lorgar - Roboute Guilliman Alpharius - Roboute Guiliman Rogal Dorn - Pertubaro Rogal Dorn - Konrad Curze Blood Angels - World Eaters (brotherly competition if Im not mistaken) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertebrae Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I didn't know about Conrad and Dorn, or about World Eaters and Blood Angels. Could you post a link? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Dorn and Conrad had a fight IA:NL Â The WE & BA thing is from IA:LW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Kurze went Crispin Glover on Dorn in an argument. They Legions don't really hate each other more than the normal traitor vs. loyalist spiel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The Index Astartes Sons of Horus mentions a few chapters that were competing in the same field of warfare and hence were used by Horus for the same task so as to incite a greater effort by both Legions to outdo the other. I would not cound any of those as real "rivalries" though. I probably would also not count a brief fight between Dorn and Curze, but I don't remember the details of that fight right now. Â While Alpharius and Guilliman had a disagreement on optimal combat doctrine and can be seen as rivals, I think Lorgar was simply envious of Guilliman, and there was not really any conflict between ideologies between them. I have to check the Index Astartes Word Bearers again, perhaps Guilliman did comment on Lorgars approach, but I guess it would have been mostly because of the inefficiency of it. Â Perhaps Horus and Guilliman could be seen as Rivals, even though the Background does not spell that out. The Index Astartes Sons of Horus does tell that the Lunar Wolves aspired to liberate and conquer more worlds than any other Legion, but we know that this crown goes to the Ultramarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Evar Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 In the IA- Ravenguard Horus and Corax had disagreements and a fight was only avoided when Corax removed his RG from under Horus's command. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhbad Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Really the only true Rivalries i can think of is. Â IW & IP SW & DA WE & BA Â The Ultramrines were probably rivals of the Lunar Wolves, they didn't really deal much with Lorgar before the Heresy and he did have disagreements with Alpharius. Â Russ & Magnus wasn't a rivalry it was hatred (mainly on the SW side aswell). Â Likewise Corax disliked Horus' manipulative behaviour. Â Curze only attacked Dorn because Dorn had found out about his visions. Â It is likely that these may have had rivalries: Â WB & EC (Both Fanatic about the Emperor in different ways) S & IH (Both legions are builders) NL & RG (Both stealth troops, yet 1 uses Terror) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1964906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Perhaps Horus and Guilliman could be seen as Rivals, even though the Background does not spell that out. The Index Astartes Sons of Horus does tell that the Lunar Wolves aspired to liberate and conquer more worlds than any other Legion, but we know that this crown goes to the Ultramarines. Â Â In continually seeking to prove themselves as the greatest Legion, they did indeed achieve most in terms of sheer numbers of worlds brought into the Imperial fold prior to the Heresy. Â So just in the IA we have conflicting info. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1965098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustermaker Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Alpha Legion and Word Bearers have a little bit of a rivalry. Their cultists fight quite a bit when they meet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1965612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Luna Wolves - smurfs cannot be counted as a rivalry :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1965700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 In continually seeking to prove themselves as the greatest Legion, they did indeed achieve most in terms of sheer numbers of worlds brought into the Imperial fold prior to the Heresy. Good find. When I was looking for the Lunar Wolves's achievements I was looking in the earlier part of the Index Astartes, where it was only describing their goal to liberate the most worlds. And it would not really be a contradiction with a later statement that they indeed did so, and least not a contradiction within the same article. It might still be a contradiction to earlier (C:UM 2nd) and later (C:SM 5th) Codices. Though, the article describes that they "brought worlds into the Imperial Fold". Which could also have been achieved by negotiation and diplomacy, as the article suggests Horus did on several occasions.  "He was charismatic, persuasive and had an innate understanding of psychology. He could read men in order to use their strengths or exploit their weaknesses. These skills made him a well-loved leader, but also allowed him to find non-military solutions when others would simply have attacked. On many worlds, a blunt explanation of the destructive might at his disposal and a day's parley with the planetary leaders was enough to bring them into the Imperial fold without bloodshed." - Index Astartes Sons of Horus  Emphasis mine. Perhaps Worlds that willingly joined the Imperium are not counted as "liberated", but are still counted as "brought into the Imperial Fold". And of course, the article then describes how the Lunar Wolves's hastiness to conquer as many worlds as quickly as possible were often not very thorough, and that often the Iron Warriors or the Ultramarines were left behind to clean up after them. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1966019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 well they thoroughly brought sixty-three-nineteen into the Imperium ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1966771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Sorry for the threadomancy, but whenever a thread like this appears I can't help but think of the Salamanders and the Night Lords. Â Now, I know there is no official fluff supporting this, merely it's a theory of my own. But, considering the opposing nature of the primarchs and their respective legions, it fits. Vulkan and his boys were steadfast defenders of the human race, and saw themselves as the ultimate protectors of the Imperium's most precious resource. On the flipside, we have Konrad Curze. Here is a primarch who espouses a control scheme of obedience through fear and terror, and brutal, torturous murder of vast amounts of men, women, and children. Â I would personally like to see this developed further. Anybody have any other thoughts on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1976918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 It did not seem to have come to blows between them. Indeed, IIRC it was Dorn who openly criticised Curze and got into a fight with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1976932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Dorn confronted Curze without wanting to fist fight, but Kurze was mental and attacked him. If Dorn had wanted a fight he wouldn't have gone in a robe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1977062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Hunter Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Can I just ask out of the Loyalist legions, who hates the Word Bearers and the Emperors Chidlren the most? I know you can say that the Iron Hands are the rivals of the Emperors children but the Iron Hands don't really get up to much in the terms of mass slaughterings or anything really? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1977855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 All of them. And read the Purging of Contqual (sp?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1977860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaolin saiyan Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 so i have heard of most of these, but what about the raven guard, white scars, nightlords, salamanders, death guard, and dare i say blacklegion whom im sure anyone could be considered a rival with for the simple fact they were the ring leaders of the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1978576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Traitors hate loyalists, but their arn't any standout rivalries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1978657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Traitors hate loyalists I am sure the feeling is mutual. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1978793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I urge you guys to consider my salamanders and night lords theory as a source for great rivalry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1979021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSion Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 i know that the night lords and imperial fists were rivals in as much as Dorn was the emperor's praetorian and the Haunter was the tame monster. They both had fundamentally different ways of doing things. Fists tried to do things with love and the night lords tried to do it with fear. Â in all honesty i think neither primarch was too easy to get along with. Dorn because he was an arrogant so and so and Kurze because he was brooding and unfriendly. Â as for the others... as has been said i reckon the LW/SH ia is the best source that i can think of. Â and iirc it was: WE vs BA Sallies vs DG NL vs WS Â thats about all i can remember at the moment, but i think these were more proffessional rivalries than outright hatred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1982268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Night Lords didn't like the White Scars? Never heard of that before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1982330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSion Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 as i said, i think it was a more professional rivalry so whenever horus wanted a rapid strike hed pick one of thoese two Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/166795-what-were-some-of-the-great-rivalries/#findComment-1983565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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