Fave HH book and why?

[Galadren]

I am really looking forward to the forthcoming Prospero Burns book. We need a book that shows Space wolves and Thousand Sons as more than just the basic stereotypes we associate with them (I'm looking at you, Battle for the Abyss...)

 

Well, from that interview with Abnett, Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons will essentially be the same events but told from the point of view of each side, so that sounds really interesting.

 

And yeah, it took me forever to read Abyss. I had the hardest time getting into it.

[DarkGuard]

For me, it was the opening trilogy (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames) that were my favourite. The story of Horus' betrayal was amazing, and the books were full of epic moments, especially Galaxy in Flames. It gave me a respect for the Luna Wolves Legion, in particular Loken and the Loyalist, and set high prospects for the rest of the series.

 

Fulgrim would be second, with Descent of Angels coming in after that for me (I'm a Dark Angel fan).

[Captain Juan Juarez]

1st: Legion

2nd: Flight of the Eisenstein

3rd: Mechcanicum/Tales of Heresy Collection

 

Last: Descent of Angels

I MADE myself read it, simply because it was part of the series.. It was terrible in my opinion, and I read and write ALOT.

[Galadren]

Last: Descent of Angels

I MADE myself read it, simply because it was part of the series.

 

Hah, same here.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Last: Descent of Angels

I MADE myself read it, simply because it was part of the series.

 

Hah, same here.

 

I felt it was more an exploration of becoming a Legion than a crucial moment in the history of the Heresy.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

I've taken something (or a lot of things) away from all of them. I haven't gotten to read Fallen Angels or hear the Lightning Tower/Dark King ones yet, unfortunately. It's easier to state things I didn't like.

 

I didn't like Horus' fall. I feel more could have been made of it. Not to say it wasn't good, but it didn't do the event justice for me. His turn should have been the culmination of many forces, including interior ones, with the Chaos Gods having virtually convinced him to fall, utterly, almost before he is even presented with the option.

 

I didn't like the 'Daemon Sword' aspect of Fulgrim's fall. It should have played a part, sure, but not as massive a one. Otherwise it's blatantly A Wizard Did It.

 

I didn't like Descent of Angels as it pertains to the Horus Heresy series, because it doesn't, really. It's an origins tale for Jonson and a setup for the fall of Caliban, which are respectively pre- and post-Heresy stories.

 

If they're going to do that, they should do Primarch origins stories for all known Primarchs and a few for the Scouring post-Heresy. Maybe they could do this in such a way that the fight between Horus and the Emperor is the absolute climax of the series; then I'd be around late middle age when they finished. :devil:

 

I didn't like Legion's ending, because it doesn't show Alpharius taking a 'third option' as well as it should. And it doesn't present within its pages that the Cabal might be wrong or lying (though it's easy enough to do out of the pages).

 

I didn't like Battle For The Abyss... overall. The plot was dull, the villains were retarded, the characters were cliche. I read it for Skraal. And a bit for Mhotep. But mostly Skraal.

 

Also, I think Lord of the night could be consider as an heresy book, along with the heresy serie. We get to see a primarch mind thanks to Zso Sahaal memories. Konrad Curze is describe in a far better way than many primarchs until know.

 

There should at least be a Night Lords book done in homage to Lord of the Night. The dichotomy of Konrad Curze and the Night Haunter would be awesome.

 

What galls me even more is that some people apparently actually want things demystified and ambiguities cleaned up as they equate something being open to interpretation as a plot hole as not everything was served up on a silver platter, ok stepping off the soapbox now.

 

I sort of agree here. The Heresy felt very epic before the books, very legendary (which it should).

 

Of course, knowing how it all turns out, I was reading with a sense of morose fatalism

 

Which the authors capitalize on brilliantly.

[Lord_Caerolion]

There should at least be a Night Lords book done in homage to Lord of the Night. The dichotomy of Konrad Curze and the Night Haunter would be awesome.

 

Indeed. As much as I liked that Dark King was written, I didn't like how it effectively turned Night Haunters character into "muahaha! I am evil again!" The end of it was good, but the rest wasn't that great.

There's no depth to a character that's evil because he feels like it, and it gives him no motives. If he was so despairing about humanity and just wanted to kill, why the hell did he make himself King, instead of just becoming a serial killer? Lord of the Night gave Curze a motive for what he did beyond being a moustache-twirling supervillain. Instead of being a sadistic, callous monster, just there to terrify people, like most people imagine him, make him the "benevolent" ruler who despite wanting to help his subjects, realises that only brutality can create the order he requires, and despairing over the enjoyment he gains from the terror of his prey.

I mean, he's obviously intelligent and cares about academia, given that he wrote an autobiography, and seemed to be involved in the ruling of his Kingdom (rather than simply an executioner to chase those who broke the law), yet I always see him portrayed as a more subtle Angron, who attacks from the shadow rather than frothing at the mouth. Less of a ax-murderer Batman, and more Colonel Kurtz.

 

 

As for the original question, I liked most of the books. Descent of Angels was fairly good, once you got into it. Fulgrim was good, apart from the sword idea...

As for Battle of the Abyss though... I simply couldn't bring myself to finish the book, something thats never happened before really. I trudged through a few chapters before deciding to stuff it, and just skipped through to find what happened to Mhotep, the only character I really enjoyed in any way. The rest of the book was simply boring and flat, and I couldn't really remember what happened plot-wise. I know they fought on some ships, and yeah, it all just blurs together into bad characters and worse villains.

[Arioch]

I liked Fallen Angels

It was really a fantastic and well written book that provided a good insigth in Luthers fall to chaos.

But I liked Horus rising and False gods to, the fall of Horus was a very tragic and exiting tale indeed. Still need to read Galaxy in flames and Fulgrim and a couple of other books, if I could just find them in the library!

[Pacific81]

Of course, knowing how it all turns out, I was reading with a sense of morose fatalism

 

Which the authors capitalize on brilliantly.

 

Absolutely! This is part of what makes 40k such a distinct setting - its the feeling that things are bad and are getting worse. It isn't Star Wars or Star Trek, where Chewie and Han Solo are going to come racing in at the last moment and save the day - the HH epitomises this: Humanity was on the brink of conquering the universe and of creating a future for everyone, but then fell at the final hurdle. Ten thousand years of slow collapse have followed to the point where, lets face it, the 41st millenium isn't a great time to live!

 

Until recently I did agree with your points about the handling fall of Horus - compared to the other title centred on the fall of a Primarch (namely Fulgrim) I didn't think that it was handled that well, so that as you say it looked in the end very much like a 'wizard did it' - and this kind of plot divice was always going to pale compared to the far more vivid and, dare I say it, more complex reasons that could have existed for Horus to turn from everything he knows and loves.

 

But, as more and more books are released (and not all of them in the Heresy series I hasten to add) the overall picture of why Horus and the other legions turned traitor is gradually coming into focus: Its beginining to move beyond what appears to be beyond the decision of a capricious and spoilt meglomaniac, to that of someone who is attempting to gain their freedom, or perhaps even cast the yoke of slavery from their neck.

 

This might seem like a controversial point, but please consider if for a moment: The Legions were created to front the great crusade, and to carve an Imperium for humanity. Although they were once Human, remember that hundreds of years had passed and perhaps there is very little memory of what it remaining. We are constantly reminded that they are so much more than human and not only that but are asked to behave in a way which is contradictory to their humanity. As Zho Sahaal says in Lord of the Night they were asked to be monsters. Then perhaps the pivotal point occurs - the Emperor returning to Terra. The worlds conquered by the legions are no longer under their control, and instead the rules of the Administration of earth begins to take precedence over those of the Warmaster and the Legions. And the result, as far as Horus is concerned? For the first time, a world turns away from the Imperium in the form of Istvaan. So those who were necessarily asked to cast aside their humanity for its own cause, to fight and die over hundreds of years, are now beginning to learn that it might have been for nothing. That perhaps humanity does not deserve what the legions toiled through blood and sweat to achieve.

 

If you look at the history of many of the Primarchs who turned with Horus, it is easy to see similar elements to their background. Angron, and the destruction of his slave army due to the (uncaring?) behaviour of the Emperor - perhaps now he saw a similar thing happening to the Imperium, with the 'slave masters' taking control? Peturabo, or went unthanked for what was the equivalent surely of the latrine duty of the crusade, then had his own world rebel. The Death guard, who's 'poor bloody infantry' were involved in the thickest and bloodiest of fighting, and yet were there to see the ultimate failing of their master's great scheme.

[Storm Hunter]

Fallen Angels is good cos it finishes off the fail of a book that is called Descent of Angels. A lot better and more gripping.

Also like the first three due to them being part of a mini series and having believable characters.

Liked Fulgrim and Legion too but my favourites have to be the first three, Shows the descent of more than half of the legion into chaos <_<

[weasleybob]

Absolutely! This is part of what makes 40k such a distinct setting - its the feeling that things are bad and are getting worse. It isn't Star Wars or Star Trek, where Chewie and Han Solo are going to come racing in at the last moment and save the day

 

I agree with this so much. It makes the books great because it generally creates the feeling of despair. I think it actually happens the other way round in the books. The good guys have a plan but then something goes wrong allowing the baddies to succeed.

 

For me it's got to be either Fulgrim or Galaxy in Flames. Like most I found Descent of Angels the worst. In difference to other people I thoroughly enjoyed Battle for the Abyss. I'm really looking forward to another HH book based entirely on one Legion. This hasn't been the case since Fulgrim (for me Fallen Angels doesn't count). I think it's much better though for the books to focus on the Traitor Legions. The loyalists resisted and we know why, but we don't don't why all the Traitors fell.

[DarkGuard]

I liked Fallen Angels :o

It was really a fantastic and well written book that provided a good insigth in Luthers fall to chaos.

But I liked Horus rising and False gods to, the fall of Horus was a very tragic and exiting tale indeed. Still need to read Galaxy in flames and Fulgrim and a couple of other books, if I could just find them in the library!

 

Reading Fallen Angels at the moment now, about time I got onto it as well. Only a 3rd of the way through, but it's an amazing book so far. In particular I like the way the Chapters change from Zahariel to Nemiel, keeps you reading. Looking forward to reading the rest of it. I can already see this replacing Descent of Angels in my top 3.

[bjorn irongaze]

it has to be fulgrim :tu: .hands down i love that book.the concert scene was phenomenal, how Serenas decent mirrord the legions was briliant. however the 3 top moments were...

3)Fabius biles conspircy,

2)the negotiations withe the eldar ,

1) the point in the istvaan battle where the traitors revield themselves.you should of seen the look on manus' face (priceless :D )

[Vissah]

I have just finished the first five of the books and I have to say I like the first three the best by far, you cant see them as seperate they are just one big book :D

The Sons of Horus are just an inspiring Legion and Horus is my favorite Primarch after reading those books.

Its full of action and the end is just the best I have been reading so far.

 

Im getting Legion today and from reading all these posts it looks like Im in for a good read :)

[Terrahawk]

My favourite book is unsurprisingly Descend of Angels/Fallen Angels combination, with a heavy emphasis on the later one. I feel that the books are so linked together, that it wouldn't be right to judge them seperately.

 

Horus Rising is a close second. :P

[igotsmeakabob!!]

I can't believe Fulgrim has such a following, that book ruined the Emperor's Children for me.

I think that's the same way some Alpha Legionnaires feel about Legion.. but damn, I loved that book. Made me want to start collecting an AL army.

[Hergrmir]

I absolutely loved Legion. It showed a totally different side of the Heresy, and was a book scattered with the sorts of the ambiguities that make me actually interested rather than bored. Tales is a very close second. The Last Church is an excellent story, and there was likeable stuff in all the other ones.

 

Haven't read the Angels books or Mechanicum yet, but Fulgrim I didn't think was all that - , but the whole sword thing killed most of it for me, but I also found a lot of the characters to be one-dimensional. The opening three were pretty decent, though I find Horus' fall rather unbelievable, and about half the remembrancers just seem tacked on - you don't even see all that much from their PoV and then they die. They'll get a lot worse if Loken and Tarvitz both survive through plotinium. Even one might be pushing it. Flight was pretty good, though it was a lot of bone-grinding action that really just amounted to 'and then Garro got to Terra' without anything else particularly big happening.

 

Abyss was... enh. Mhotep was all right, but even he was simply one-dimensional and stoic, the Ultramarines and Space Wolves all pretty much had nothing going as characters. Skraal was probably the best written character in that, and I don't even LIKE the World Eaters - he was just a frenzied killing machine, but unlike the rest at least he wasn't supposed to be anything more.

 

All in all though, I'm kind of ambiguous about the HH novels. I mean, the good guys can blather on all they want about reason and the potential of humanity, but they bleat their mantras just as the Word Bearers do. There're still lobotomised servitors everywhere doing EVERYTHING (seriously, in Abyss there's a servitor that's a weapons rack). It's still a totalitarian nightmare run by a lunatic and his equally demented immature children, tailed by any number of frothing fanatics. Slaves, chanting, mysticism, a ridiculous feudal bureaucracy - it's all still there. And sort of made worse by the fact that nobody knows why it's there - people don't think they're keeping away Chaos or Old Night or anything of that sort, they seem to be convinced that toiling mindlessly is good for no particular reason.

 

So if anything it's changed what's tragic about 40k for me. It's not tragic because there was a golden age within humanity's grasp and then it was torn away; it's tragic because even when humanity was theoretically way better off 10,000 years ago and demigods walked amongst them, they still couldn't up with a civilization worth living in.

 

Ergo, Alpharius probably made the right choice. :P

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

Tales is without a doubt my favourite- Wolf at the door and after Desh'Ea especially. I dunno, something about Bulveye raiding a Dark Eldar Cabal with just 12 men and hiding from them in the most lethal parts of the planet really shows a different side to BL writing marines, moreso than even legion-it isn't just marines striding into the middle of an army and standing there 'till they're all dead lol. After Desh'Ea was good for me because it just showed Khârn to be a balanced warrior, not just a nutter. And taking all that from Angron really does show just how badass marines can be.

[Rangeltoft]

It has to be Mechanicum,After De'Shea and The Dark King.

 

Always had a thing for the men from mars, both good and bad. And I thought the book was great, for most parts.

 

After De'Shea - Really liked it, dont know why, but I did, its a very good description of Angron, a broken soul trapped in rage.

 

The Dark King - Always liked Night Lords from a fluff perspectiv and the dueality of thier primarch, would love to have some more PH Night Lords stuff.

 

The book I liked the least must be Legion, due to the fact that it ruined Alpha legion for me with the while two primarch thing. But all in all its a good read.

[Cyrox]

For me its Galaxy in Flames.

 

Great end to the opening trilogy and my favourite part is the Titan switching sides and attacking the loyal Death Guard

 

Not read Tales of Heresy or Fallen Angels yet though.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Tales of Heresy was hit or miss for me. Blood Games, while well written, didn't do much for me in terms of the Heresy's plot. Wolf at the Door was basically bolter porn, with only the ending highlighting the nature of the Crusade. Scions of the Storm was pretty cool, and I've always been partial to Word Bearers and Lorgar; it was good to get a look at him. The Voice was an interesting tragedy, but it was slow going, in my opinion. Call of the Lion was dull, but added some depth to the Terran/Calibanite schism.

 

I had incredibly high hopes for The Last Church, but it read like an author-avatar inserting himself against a strawman priest after recently having read such works as The God Delusion. It could have been a lot better. Then again, perhaps Black Library is no place for sophisticated philosophy- only the pretension of it to break up the BLOOD SKULLS GRIMDARK BLOOD.

 

After Desh'ea, however, was the Crowning Moment of Awesome for this book. It brings Angron to life as a Primarch, not just a caricature. It highlights the tragedy of his upbringing and meeting with the Emperor. The filial bond between Primarch and Legion, as exemplified by the sacrifice of those before Khârn, Khârn's own 'passion' in the face of Angron's rage, and the re-naming of the Legion, is stirring. It's saddening in the extreme to think that these bloody and noble warriors could have been saved from the darkness. Would that Sanguinius and Angron had stood together defending the Emperor... Horus wouldn't have stood a chance...

 

I would have bought the book just for After Desh'ea. Not gonna lie.

[Hergrmir]

Tales of Heresy was hit or miss for me. Blood Games, while well written, didn't do much for me in terms of the Heresy's plot. Wolf at the Door was basically bolter porn, with only the ending highlighting the nature of the Crusade. Scions of the Storm was pretty cool, and I've always been partial to Word Bearers and Lorgar; it was good to get a look at him. The Voice was an interesting tragedy, but it was slow going, in my opinion. Call of the Lion was dull, but added some depth to the Terran/Calibanite schism.

 

I had incredibly high hopes for The Last Church, but it read like an author-avatar inserting himself against a strawman priest after recently having read such works as The God Delusion. It could have been a lot better. Then again, perhaps Black Library is no place for sophisticated philosophy- only the pretension of it to break up the BLOOD SKULLS GRIMDARK BLOOD.

 

After Desh'ea, however, was the Crowning Moment of Awesome for this book. It brings Angron to life as a Primarch, not just a caricature. It highlights the tragedy of his upbringing and meeting with the Emperor. The filial bond between Primarch and Legion, as exemplified by the sacrifice of those before Khârn, Khârn's own 'passion' in the face of Angron's rage, and the re-naming of the Legion, is stirring. It's saddening in the extreme to think that these bloody and noble warriors could have been saved from the darkness. Would that Sanguinius and Angron had stood together defending the Emperor... Horus wouldn't have stood a chance...

 

I would have bought the book just for After Desh'ea. Not gonna lie.

 

Actually, I really thought Last Church was a pretty solid piece. I don't expect philosophy from the BL, and I'm pretty with you on most of the rest of your analysis, except I thought Call of the Lion and The Voice were better than Scions of the Storm.

 

But when it comes to the Last Church, I think what was great about it was that while Big E pretty much trounced Uriah in my books, he still came out looking like nothing more than a marauding warlord who's lying to himself about what exactly he's doing. You could easily go with the bloodthirstay maniac angle on this.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Well, maybe I was a little harsh on it, but there was a lot of buzz about The Last Church and it got my expectations high. I'm not saying it wasn't solid, it just didn't live up to the hype.

 

What I'm saying is that the Emperor trounced Uriah because Uriah didn't know how to respond to basic arguments against faith. The Emperor argued 'you haz no evidences' and 'bad people misuse religion so religion is bad.' I kind of hoped for a better debate. But again, shouldn't have expected that from BL.

 

And you're quite right about the bloodthirsty tyrant angle. It's something that came out in Legion, Mechanicum, and the Dark Angel books quite prominently (and if you consider, even before the Horus Heresy series was begun, fluff indicated that the Emperor had to be a terrifyingly driven man). But I just think that for a man who is seeking to stamp out religion across a galaxy and has had thirty eight thousand years to perfect and refine his arguments and justifications, he could have picked some better ones.

 

And Uriah should have been able to respond to them. He was a priest, it's what they do.

 

I'll admit I shouldn't be letting this one sticking point ruin the story for me though. ;)

[Soeven001M]

I am still a bit new here so I'll make this short.

 

My Favorite so far is still Fulgrim granted its the farthest I've gotten to read becaue of various reason but it is my favorite.

 

I love the conflict in it and how they slowly fall how ones like the Emperors Children so proud just slowly sink into decedance and persuite of insanity and pleasure just beautiful. Also wrentched at my personal views in the confrontations with two very close and loving brothers. Honestly broke my heart (even though I knew it was comming) that Fulgrim actually killed his Brother.

 

I hope to read the rest but that likely won't happen for a LONG time from now so eh I have a lot of catching up to do.

[Rayuzaki]

For me it's:

 

1. Eisenstein

2. Galaxy In Flames

3. Battle for the Abyss