[Daemon review] Sample lists

[minigun762]

Daemonzilla next? We could always use my list for that. It's always been focussed very heavily on the MCs, obviously I'd make notes on bloodcrushers though in the actual write up.

 

HQ:

Bloodthirster w/ blessing of the Blood God and unholy might.

Keeper of secrets w/ unholy might and soporific musk.

 

Troops:

7x plaguebearers.

7x plaguebearers.

7x plaguebearers.

 

Heavy support:

Daemon prince w/ mark of Nurgle, noxious touch, daemonic flight, iron hide, breath of chaos and cloud of flies.

Daemon prince w/ mark of Nurgle, noxious touch, daemonic flight, iron hide and cloud of flies.

Daemon prince w/ mark of Nurgle, noxious touch, daemonic flight, iron hide and cloud of flies.

 

Its a solid enough list but I'd play around with a few things personally.

1) I'd drop Breath from the Daemon Prince and use the points to turn the Keeper into another Bloodthirster. Point for point, I think they're alot scarier and more survivable. The Keeper is a great value, but when the emphasis is on Monstrous Creatures, I feel like you need to take the best.

2) PlagueBearers are great for camping objectives, but what about some Horrors to provide shooting power? I feel that an army like this wins by holding one, maybe two objectives and focusing on killing the other army. To that effect, 3 Plague Bearers seems excessive. 10 Horrors with a Bolt make for a cheapish fire support squad, to help thin out hordes who are trying to tie up your big guys or just toss some extra wounds downfield.

[Captain Malachi]

The horrors would be good I admit, however when used right I feel the keeper regularly outperforms the bloodthirster, believe it or not. The ability to hit and run means he won't get tied up, and I can generally avoid my enemy's shooting phase. The bloodthirster is better for anti-tank and is faster overall, but the keeper really does do very well. But I'll let some other people share their views on that before I write anything up.

[minigun762]

The horrors would be good I admit, however when used right I feel the keeper regularly outperforms the bloodthirster, believe it or not. The ability to hit and run means he won't get tied up, and I can generally avoid my enemy's shooting phase. The bloodthirster is better for anti-tank and is faster overall, but the keeper really does do very well. But I'll let some other people share their views on that before I write anything up.

 

Keeper beating out the Bloodthirster? I wouldn't have guessed.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Keeper is a terrific Greater Daemon overall and probably the one I'd use more often than not simply because its a fair amount cheaper.

 

But I would have assumed that when the poop hits the fan, the Bloodthirster is more killy, more durable and faster. Seems to be a scenario of tactics > unit stats. :D

[Captain Malachi]

Who would have thought my own list would be the hardest to review eh? Anyway, here ya go, I'm not entirely happy with it but I've kept you waiting long enough as it is.

 

Daemonzilla:

Time for my own list now, here is 1500 points of daemonzilla.

 

Bloodthirster with unholy might and blessing of the Blood God.

Keeper of secrets with soporific musk and unholy might.

 

3x 7 man units of plaguebearers.

 

2x daemon prince with mark of Nurgle, iron hide, daemonic flight, noxious touch and cloud of flies.

Daemon prince with mark of Nurgle, iron hide, daemonic flight, breath of chaos, noxious touch and cloud of flies.

 

 

Straight away you can see that all of my killing ability is in five models, which is why I’ve made each of those models as strong and hard to kill as possible. I usually dedicate the bloodthirster and one of the princes to tank killing, leaving the other three monsters to kill troops.

 

The main thing to remember is that you are very unlikely to kill an entire army with a daemonzilla list, so you need to pick your targets carefully. For example, do you kill the predator battle tank or the close combat scout squad? Normally, you’d pick the predator, as it has the best chance of killing one of your monstrous creatures, but if the scouts are holding an objective, then the choice suddenly swings the other way. Just killing the nearest unit doesn’t work, you really need to think. Unlike nidzilla, we only have five monsters to play with, not eight.

 

The reason I only have plaguebearers as troops, is because I don’t really have the points for another killing unit, and it enables me to win objective missions. However, horrors are also a good choice for daemonzilla troops, as they give you the ability to shoot and are still able to hold objectives fairly well. Plaguebearers are better at holding objectives, but they won’t do anything else, so think carefully on that choice.

 

A quick look at your codex will tell you that each of those princes are over 200 points, and that’s pretty expensive. However, they really need to be, if you don’t take all those upgrades then they won’t kill enough to make up for your lack of numbers. Alternatively, you could take soulgrinders, it’s commonly accepted that they count as monstrous creatures for the purposes of daemonzilla, but try and stick to one or the other, don’t mix.

 

The main weaknesses of daemonzilla armies are hordes and tar pitting units. Large squads really give you a headache, as they can tie up up to a fifth of your killing power nearly indefinitely. That’s one of the reason I took the keeper, with his ability to leave combat, it’s much harder to stop him without actually killing him.

 

While hordes may be a weakness, daemonzilla has the advantage of being much better against mechanized armies than other daemon armies, for this reason you really have to give most, if not all, of your monstrous creatures flight, so that they can keep up with those tanks. Flight is good anyway, since with only five things able to do damage, you need to hit them where it counts, and speed lets you do that.

 

Unless you think there's anything that desperately needs changing, shall we do Skarbrand and his ladies next?

[minigun762]

Looks fine to me.

On to Skarbrand.

[Infidel]

Skarbrand...now that's an interesting list.

 

Typically, people pack lots of Netts, but I disagree. Seekers and fiends are the primere Skarbrand unit.

 

I would build a list like:

 

HQ: 300pt

Skarbrand

 

Elite: 540pt

6x Fiends

6x Fiends

6x Fiends

 

Troops: 336pt

12 Daemonettes

12 Daemonettes

 

Fast Attack: 306pt

9 Seekers

9 Seekers

 

1482pt

 

18 points of filler, instrument etc.

 

Can afford to lose some fiends for more seekers and screamers. Those 5 S5 I5 attacks that reroll misses is nothing to laugh at.

[minigun762]

Fast Attack: 306pt

9 Seekers

9 Seekers

 

What about using Screamers instead? I ask because the list seems small on dedicated anti-heavy armor. S5 Rending will handle most stuff, but Land Raiders or Monoliths will give you trouble.

 

An even better alternative might be cheap Daemon Princes. Something like Wings/Might and either Iron Hide or Mark of Tzeentch, to serve as your tank busters.

 

Also I'd consider going with the sexy missiles of death (Sherald with Chariot and Might) as they're cheap, fast and scary.

[Infidel]

I have a fetish for fiends what can I say :woot:

 

In my experience Fiends are effective against Vehicles, Infantry, MCs, characters....but not screamers.

 

Good call on the light MCs tho, We gotta give that a thought.

[minigun762]

I have a fetish for fiends what can I say :woot:

 

In my experience Fiends are effective against Vehicles, Infantry, MCs, characters....but not screamers.

 

Good call on the light MCs tho, We gotta give that a thought.

 

Fiends = awesome. I was talking about replacing the Seekers (mounted Daemonettes) with Screamers or light MCs as they are very similar to basic Daemonettes or Fiends.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Captain Malachi]

I'll have to agree with Minigun, a couple of cheap Slaaneshi princes with might and maybe musk would give the army a serious anti-tank boost without compromising the high initiative theme. In an army this fast I don't really see seekers as neccessary to be honest, the points can be better spent elsewhere, the 12" charge is nice, but it's not that nice.

[Infidel]

An idea:

 

Grinders, Vanilla grinders instead of light dp. Loses the MC/I6 but instead you gain re-rollable 4 S10 attacks and AV13 walker.

 

Phlegm optional, but to fit the slaanesh theme you'd want to always be running or fleeting.

 

HQ: 300pt

Skarbrand

 

Elite: 360pt

6x Fiends

6x Fiends

 

Troops: 462pt

12 Daemonettes

12 Daemonettes

9 Daemonettes

 

Heavy Support: 375pt

Soul Grinder

Soul Grinder

Soul Grinder

 

OR

 

DP, Iron Hide, MoS

DP, Iron Hide, MoS

DP, Iron Hide, Might

[minigun762]

Grinders, Vanilla grinders instead of light dp. Loses the MC/I6 but instead you gain re-rollable 4 S10 attacks and AV13 walker.

Heavy Support: 375pt

Soul Grinder

Soul Grinder

Soul Grinder

 

OR

 

DP, Iron Hide, MoS

DP, Iron Hide, MoS

DP, Iron Hide, Might

 

Hmm I like the idea of the Soulgrinder. Cheaper and faster thanks to Fleet. Plus it gives you a little bit of range, nothing special but sometimes it could help against some units.

[Captain Malachi]

Skarbrand and his ladies:

We mentioned this in Skarbrands entry, essentially it’s the big man himself and a load of high initiative models. The list:

 

Skarbrand.

 

2x 6 man fiend units.

 

2x 12 man daemonette units.

1x 6 man daemonette unit.

 

3x soulgrinder.

 

Credit to Infidel for writing that up. Obviously Skarbrand is the key, making it so most of your army re-rolls to hit, but why not take bloodletters over daemonettes? Simple really, it’s to stop the enemy making use of Skarbrands ability. The idea is to kill so many of the enemy before they attack that it doesn’t matter that they get to re-roll.

 

The fiends are an excellent unit to start with, and with re-rolls to hit they just get better, all those rending attacks guarantee a good few kills a turn. The daemonettes, while normally not as killy as bloodletters, make good use of their initiative six with Skarbrand around to limit the amount of attacks coming their way, making up somewhat for their low survivability. Note however, that they die just as quickly to shooting as ever. The six man (girl) unit is more to stick to sacred numbers than anything else, you may want to consider taking two units of 15 instead, but a unit of six holding your home objective just might get ignored long enough to win you the game.

 

The soulgrinders are the odd ones out, with a low initiative they don’t seem to fit so well in the army, but thankfully they’re mostly used for anti-tank so the low initiative doesn’t matter so much. Get in to combat with a tank and re-rolling strength ten attacks are incredibly effective.

 

Some people include plaguebearers or other Nurgle units on the theory that they’ll survive the enemy onslaught and still make use of the bonus from Skarbrand. But, that’s a whole new army really and we’re not going to review it here, but it is worth trying out if you have the models.

 

I really need to get back on top of this thing, keep making you guys wait far longer than is neccessary. Anyway, have a look, see if anything needs changing and then we can do the balanced list. I'll see if I can come up with one and post it tomorrow, unless someone has one prepared already? There doesn't seem to be many people who actually play balanced daemons, we all play themed lists, quite amusing actually.

[minigun762]

and then we can do the balanced list. I'll see if I can come up with one and post it tomorrow, unless someone has one prepared already? There doesn't seem to be many people who actually play balanced daemons, we all play themed lists, quite amusing actually.

 

By balanced do you mean a mix of all gods?

Or more similar to a other armies balanced lists (with some infantry, elites, anti-tank etc)

[Captain Malachi]

Some infantry, elites, anti-tank etc. It will include all four gods, but that's just because a balanced list should do.

[minigun762]

Some infantry, elites, anti-tank etc. It will include all four gods, but that's just because a balanced list should do.

 

Let me do it, I enjoy making balanced multi-god armies. Seems like its in the true spirit of the Daemon codex. :P

[Captain Malachi]

Be my guest, get a list up and we'll have a look. Try and make it varied more than powerful, the idea of the sample lists section is to show the variation in the army, make it good, but not amazing at the cost of variation. But I'm sure you know all this and I'm just rambling anyway.

 

By the way guys, I'm fairly sure this will be the last of the sample lists. When it's done I'll get in contact with Brother Nihm and see about getting what we have so far put up in a stickied thread, and then we'll discuss how we're going to do the next section, the painting and modelling parts.

[minigun762]

Cool, I'll probably have something up either tonight or tomorrow.

[minigun762]

1500 point Multi-god Balanced Army List

 

2 x Heralds of Tzeentch, Chariot, Legion, Master, Bolt

 

1 x Keeper of Secrets

 

4 x Bloodcrushers of Khorne, Fury, Instrument

 

2 x 7 PlagueBearers of Nurgle

 

1 x 10 Bloodletters of Khorne

 

2 x Soulgrinders, Phlegm

 

1 x Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, Wings, Iron Hide

 

1500 points on the dot.

 

Functionally this army would work in two parts.

Part 1 would be the aggressive portion, which would be the Keeper of Secrets, Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers and Daemon Prince.

Part 2 would be the defensive portion, which would be the Heralds, The PlagueBearers and the Soulgrinders.

 

Part 1 would take the fight to the enemy, using their superior speed and assault capabilities to kill and claim the opponent's objectives. At the same time Part 2 would provide fire support for Part 1 and ensure that your own objectives are safe.

 

The nice thing about this army is that all 4 gods are represented and you are using a variety of unit types, with 2 MCs, 2 vehicles and 3 fairly durable scoring units supported by some Elites and the Heralds.

[antique_nova]

Some infantry, elites, anti-tank etc. It will include all four gods, but that's just because a balanced list should do.

 

Let me do it, I enjoy making balanced multi-god armies. Seems like its in the true spirit of the Daemon codex.

not sure that the gods would agree....more like rip out your ;) for it. lol

[Captain Malachi]

I'll have something written up in a few days guys, unfortunately my mother was recently taking in to hospital and obviously that's a little more important. She's fine though, just weak, so needs a lot of help with stuff, keeping me busy you know?

 

Like I said, couple of days and I'll have something up.

[minigun762]

I'll have something written up in a few days guys, unfortunately my mother was recently taking in to hospital and obviously that's a little more important. She's fine though, just weak, so needs a lot of help with stuff, keeping me busy you know?

 

Like I said, couple of days and I'll have something up.

 

Everything ok now Cap'n? Take all the time you need and I hope she gets better soon.

[Captain Malachi]

Right, sorry for the exceedingly late update, but everything's good now and I come bearing gifts.

 

Multi-God balanced:

Finally, we have a balanced list made from elements of all four gods, courtesy of Minigun762.

 

2x heralds of Tzeentch on chariots of Tzeentch with we are legion, master of sorcery and bolt of Tzeentch.

Keeper of secrets.

 

4x bloodcrushers with fury of Khorne and instrument of chaos.

 

2x 7 man plaguebearer squads.

10x bloodletters of Khorne.

 

2x soulgrinders with phlegm.

Daemon prince of Nurgle with noxious touch, cloud of flies, daemonic might and iron hide.

 

Clearly it’s a little heavy on the big things, mostly as the daemon army as a whole has a problem killing tanks and this makes up for it. The army itself is split in to two parts, the aggressive part, and the defensive part.

 

The aggressive part consists of the keeper of secrets, the bloodcrushers, bloodletters and the daemon prince. This half is used to attack the enemy and take objectives or just rack up kill points. The defensive half consists of the heralds, the plaguebearers and the soulgrinders. They are used to give fire support to your aggressive half and to hold your own objectives or counterattack as needed.

 

Making sure both halves work together is the key to victory with a list like this. If the aggressive half were to fail, the defensive half would suffer for it, and vice versa.

 

The army is a little light on speed, so very fast armies will give you a headache, but this is true of nearly all daemon armies, and the heralds should go some way to mitigate the problem. Generally this list is a jack of all trades army which will do generally well against all comers, just don’t try and win a shooting match with tau or guard.

 

Hopefully that meets with your approval, if it does I'll start a new thread on the hobby side of the army. We'll disguss how to do that in that thread.

[minigun762]

Welcome back Cap'n. Glad to hear everything is a-ok.

As for the write-up, I think its just fine. You could mention something about which portion to send it first (either one would work, but I'd do all defensive or all aggressive depending on the opponent).

 

Other than that, it might be easier to read if we physically broke up the army list into the aggressive/defensive sections.

Last thing is nitpicky but you don't have to use "generally" twice in the last sentance.

[Captain Malachi]

Hmm, I don't think the second 'generally' was actually meant to be there......will change that. I'd rather avoid writing the list differently, just for consistency's sake, but I will add something about the waves.