Marshal Rohr Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 THe Lion wasn't disloyal. He was using Horus' treachery as a tool to make himself the new Warmaster after Horus would be defeated. This is why he sent half the Legion back to Caliban AND why he didn't actively participate. If his Legion was still 'together' he would have a massive force to ride in like the cavalry and save the day. Finally, some freaking answers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I thought this was coming out in July. But REALLY? ... Okay, looking back, it does kinda sound like something he would do. Afterall Horus did state that "Guilliman and/or Lion wanted the job". Now what are the Wolves excuse? Too much liqour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I find it intriguing... specially because Jonson snd Calibanites home before he knew about Horus schism...so it doesn't quite add up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 so it doesn't quite add up.. Retro-fitting never quite does ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Proteus Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Yeaah, given how the HH books are going, the general story fits with the canon we've dealt with in the past. There are plenty of things, big and small, that are just plain new, and out of the hat. Please note, I'm really not trying to rabble-rouse. Ferrus Mannus "fate" in Fulgrim, the Furious Abyss and its significance, info about the mechanicum. All sort of 'new' and not previously defined. So I'm actually VERY surprised about Jonson. -P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Random Geek Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 ...And Cypher? Please tell me he's not the "Lord Cypher" from Descent of Angels, or anything related to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODM Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 ...And Cypher? Please tell me he's not the "Lord Cypher" from Descent of Angels, or anything related to him. Well, Mike Lee's been quoted as saying he's writing a follow up to Descent of Angels, so it's pretty much 100% certain that Cypher is at least related to the Lord Cypher position in the Legion. You're going to have to accept that I'm afraid. I can't twait to get my hands on this book. From what I've read so far on various forums, without trying to read any spoilers, the "Fallen are the true DA supporting the emperor" and "Terran DA became the Fallen and were loyal" and "the Lion was waiting to see who won" arguments may be answered once and for all. :wacko: I'm really excited. An actual step forward in explaining out story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Random Geek Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Huh... It does say on page 8 of the sample text on BL's website that most of the Marines sent home were Calibanites, with the Lion keeping the Terrans at the front lines. I knew we couldn't trust that traitor, Astellan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 ...And Cypher? Please tell me he's not the "Lord Cypher" from Descent of Angels, or anything related to him. Well, Mike Lee's been quoted as saying he's writing a follow up to Descent of Angels, so it's pretty much 100% certain that Cypher is at least related to the Lord Cypher position in the Legion. You're going to have to accept that I'm afraid. I can't twait to get my hands on this book. From what I've read so far on various forums, without trying to read any spoilers, the "Fallen are the true DA supporting the emperor" and "Terran DA became the Fallen and were loyal" and "the Lion was waiting to see who won" arguments may be answered once and for all. :P I'm really excited. An actual step forward in explaining out story. Yeah. From what I've gathered DA-antagonists are up for a shocking "surprise"... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc O' Luck Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Now what are the Wolves excuse? Too much liqour? They were half way across the galaxy, having been sent first, by the Emperor to cripple Magnus and bring him before the Emperor in chains, before Horus drove them to destroy the Thousand Sons altogether. So they crippled and crushed the Thousand Sons, then hot footed it back to Terra, fighting all the way, joining up with the (loyalist/Terran) DA en-route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Tates Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I've just read the new extract on the BL website and i CANNOT WAIT till the novel comes out.... nearly spontaneously combusting myself here. ++ We're all excited but careful with using asterisks to try and mask dubious word choices. I've taken the trouble to express your elation for you in a more suitable manner. ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashshashin Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey does the Lion actually wear the Lion helm in this book? he didn't to my knowledge wear it in the first one. I am about to start a truescale model of the Lion and was curious if he actually ever wears the helmet... This boo sounds good I really liked the DoA, and haven't read the tales of Heresy yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsulis81 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 You know the Lion splitting the Legion into two groups is a pretty good move. If he is counting on taking heavy casualties in the primary force then the second would be a full strength hammer crashing onto the rest of the galaxy. This also would mean The Lion suspected Horus of treason almost right after he became the Warmaster. In which case the odds are he had other plans, and maybe even other devisions within the legion to strike at the traitor strong holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Now what are the Wolves excuse? Too much liqour? They were half way across the galaxy, having been sent first, by the Emperor to cripple Magnus and bring him before the Emperor in chains, before Horus drove them to destroy the Thousand Sons altogether. So they crippled and crushed the Thousand Sons, then hot footed it back to Terra, fighting all the way, joining up with the (loyalist/Terran) DA en-route. Pretty sure that happened before, and the Wolves and the Angels were near each other. Our codex somewhere, I'll look for the page later, said something about the Wolf fighting EVERY damn thing along the way to Terra, and the Lion wanting to "Dude, PRIORITIES. TERRA NOW. HERETICS LATER." But.............then again, GW retcons everything so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Personally, I find using the treachery of others for your own personal gain to be equally disloyal, just in another shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshi Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I just read the excerpt from Fallen Angels and do not quite see something mentioned before: "...Zahariel and more than five hundred of his brothers – over half a chapter – discovered they had been dismissed." So yes, the Lion sent home quite a few marines, but it was only half a chapter, not half the Legion (by far). This makes it doubtful that it was a move to conserve strength for the betrayal by Horus. Moreover: ...the Saroshi leaders had attempted to assassinate their primarch by smuggling an atomic warhead onto the flagship. Had the bomb not been discovered and dealt with by Luther and Zahariel, the Legion would have been dealt a catastrophic blow – or so the story went. Luther never brought up the incident during the length of the voyage back to Caliban, but the question hung in the air between them. Had Jonson suspected the truth? Was that why Luther had been sent away, and was Zahariel being punished by virtue of his association to the event? There was no way to know. It looks like Luther was involved in the assassination attempt somehow, but something went wrong and he had to change strategy and pose as savior in a hurry (which the Lion might not have bought altogether). The real question will be why Luther even tried such a thing in the first place? Was it because Luther had already been tempted by Chaos? Was it because the Lion had already begun to betray the Emperor? I just hope the book will really give us some answers! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsulis81 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Think of it more along the lines of The Emperor, and Magnus. Magnus tried to warn him of Horus' treachery, even the Eldar tried but Horus was the favored son. The Lion wasn't stupid he was a tactition, and he'd most likely taken this into account. Anyone else remember the part in our codex about Luther corrupting a generation of marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Right, I've got book vouchers to burn from a school award (yeah...my school gave out book vouchers, not that I'm complaining) So getting Fallen angels! Well reading the BL extract Lord Cypher is wearing twin pistols...two pistols...umm, yeah, Cypher. And yes, the Lion only sends half a chapter back to caliban! Umm, retcon alert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Spoilers. Go read the original post. So you're saying that the Horus Heresy series is now retconning itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Random Geek Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 But if half a Chapter is all that defected, doesn't that kinda make everyone involved look rather incompetent? Think about it. Luther looks extremely dumb for thinking he could take on the entire legion with five hundred marines, and Lion El' looks rather silly unleashing his massive orbital bombardments and blowing up most of Caliban when he could clearly rout the Fallen with his thousands of more experinced Terran Marines. So yeah, I'm sticking with the half-legion defecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 But if half a Chapter is all that defected, doesn't that kinda make everyone involved look rather incompetent? Think about it. Luther looks extremely dumb for thinking he could take on the entire legion with five hundred marines, and Lion El' looks rather silly unleashing his massive orbital bombardments and blowing up most of Caliban when he could clearly rout the Fallen with his thousands of more experinced Terran Marines. So yeah, I'm sticking with the half-legion defecting. Given that this is a pre-production snippet, the odds are that the final copy edit hasn't been done yet. A continuity editor should catch the "chapter" and make it "legion" by the time the book sees print. Even with a release date in July, the odds of the book already being printed are pretty slim. They have time to correct this, assuming it's a mistake. And like you, I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsulis81 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Remember they were still devided up by chapters, and say the legion could have anywhere from 5-40 chapters that make up the whole. According to the DA dex of old. Luther had corrupted a generation of Dark Angels? If say a whole world of Spacemarines has gone traitor then its a different story, and depending on what The Lion had to fight, the legion wouldn't be at top form. I think the question is how long was Luther stationed on Caliban? If it was years they could have a pretty large build up of troops, and suplies. And back in the era of the Great Crusade it didn't take decades to produce marines as it does in the 41 century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODM Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Let's wait until we've read the book before complaining about retconning retcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 They could retcon retcons that had been retconned weeks previously and I would still be happy. We finally have a real no bull what happened reason with the Dark Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Spoilers. Go read the original post. So you're saying that the Horus Heresy series is now retconning itself? Strangely....I wouldn't be surprised if they did.... Man: Loken Garviel was a Luna Wolf. Man 2: Nope. He was an Ultramarine. See here, look in #23 in the Horus Heresy Series. He is Ultramarine. And he lived to the 37th Millenium. Man: .....................What. Damn you Black Library! Damn you! Can't you keep anything unsoiled?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.