Fallen Angels

[kylewayne58]

I pretty much agree with ODM, however what if the Lord Cypher is communicating with the Lion and giving him a "everything is going to plan" type message while he is planning on betraying him for wiping out the Knights of Lupis. If that is the case there is still a chance that Zahariel is the Cypher from present day. In DOA it is stated that the Lion and Zahariel have a special bond and I'm thinking that because of that bond and his connection to the watchers (who would be responsible for his survival of Caliban's destruction) is why he is traveling to Terra for whatever reason, and adopted the name Cypher to get his fellow Dark Angels attention and draw them to the problems that he finds.

 

I know what I just said probably makes no sense but I'm very tired and wanted to put my two cents in.

[Deathwing]

PART 1

2. The Emperor outlawed the use of Librarians at the Council of Nikea, and sends Russ to slap Magnus on the wrist for disobeying (allowing Horus to trick Russ into decimating the Thousand Sons). If Librarians are illegal, how come the Dark Angels get to keep theirs?

 

3. The squad Nemiel accompanies have a few property issues, namely, at several times Brothers Varrus and Marthes swap weapons. One is the meltagunner, and the other carries a heavybolter, yet they often are described using each other's gun.

 

4. The worms native to Caliban that grow to monstrous proportions are recognised by Astelan, a Terran-born Dark Angel, who claims they were present where he grew up.

 

I thought the Council of Nikea allowed the existence of psykers but they were to be controlled and regulated, but banned the practice of sorcery.

 

I'm surprised the editor didn't catch the weapon swapping of those two and it irked me whenever I read through those parts. Reminded me of some of the high school stuff I have to read when I mark papers.

 

ODM gives a good explanation to the worms which I never thought of and makes much more sense now. Otherwise again another strange oversight by the editor.

 

As to Jonson ignoring the reports, he probably read them but never replied as there was nothing out of the ordinary. It would be against his character to ignore reports about the progress of training on his homeworld but not entirely out of character to not bother sending a reply back. He was a cold and aloof kind of person and even Nemiel recognized his weakness when Jonson asked his opinion of the other imperial commanders. Like all tragic heroes, Jonson has a flaw that will come back to bite him (come to think of it, all the primarchs are like that)

[ODM]

I agree with your reasoning.cypher's motivations become a very interesting question.

[Brother Amarel]

what IF the catalyst for Luthers melancholy was the planet itself? What if the Chaos taint tapped into Luthers emotions and manipulated them, making his anger and sense of betrayal seem far greater than they really were.

I like to think that he was little, to no, different from before - the situation changed rather than him. There's a big Chaos thing kicking off, Lion isn't sure where he stands (torn between his Emperor and his chaos-infected home planet), then he makes a split-seconds decision: Emperor. And in that moment he sees that the Calibanites are corrupted and impure.

 

Think of it like a Norseman heading out to see more of the World and then when he gets back to his tribe he has an epiphany - his friends and family are Chaos Marauders: the fearsome, blood-thirsty beasts that the rest of the continents are terrorised of.

 

I don't think this is the analogy I'd use, because it assumes that the Lion feels Caliban is doomed, and that his men are corrupted, and I don't think he does. I think he sees the danger, but thinks Chaos can be contained and dealt with, like on Sarosh, and sends back his best team to deal with it. Of course he misses the human failings that cause the fall, and maybe misunderstands the true nature of chaos, it's not only a direct physical danger to be fought, it's also an insidious worm that burrows into the mind causing doubt and misgivings.

 

A better analogy I'd see in the Emperor himself. He knows of Chaos, and knows his Primarchs will encounter it. When he leaves the great crusade to move onto his next work, he doesn't tell them of the nature and danger of Chaos, he just trusts that they can deal with it as long as they hold firm. He doesn't know the doubts, insecurities and fears that plague Horus and his brothers, and allow Chaos it's entrance, because he doesn't have them himself. Sound familiar?

 

I guess this goes back to my theory that the story Fall of Caliban is a parallel to the Horus Heresy itself I guess, but that's another thread.

I don't disagree with this at all, but we're talking about slightly different areas of time.

 

I think, as you say, Lion thinks that the problem can be dealt with and sends back the Calibanites (they're the best for the job, clearly). However, it's when he then returns and is orbiting the fortress that he has the epiphany that Chaos can't be contained and it must be wiped out or it will wipe you out. At this point he makes the decision that the taint must be eradicated at all costs.

[FerociousBeast]

Finished the book yesterday.

 

Note: I'm not going to put spoiler tags on this, because there is a spoiler tag on the whole thread, and anyone who has been reading this thread for five pages now either 1) already knows what I'm going to talk about, or 2) is just going to highlight the spoiler anyway. So enough with the inconvenience. <_<

 

SPOILERS AHEAD

 

My Estimation of the Book

 

Decent book, better than Descent, not one of the best in the series. As Abaddonshand pointed out, there were tons of editing problems (the Marthes/Vardus one being aggravating and insistent). The writing was "okay"... about what I'd expect from one of the middle-of-the-pack BL writers. The structure of the book was a big let down. We basically had two completely separate stories without ANY integration whatsoever. Two books for the price of one, in other words, but the small print is that each book is a half book. So, blah.

 

The good parts of the book, then. The Fallen half was much superior to the Loyalist half. It dealt with the story of the Dark Angels in a real way. The Loyalist half was a slipshod attempt to tie the book into the larger events of the Horus Heresy and thus justify the book's existence. And it does so, in my opinion, on much too small a scale and by inventing things for the overall story which were not existent before. However, the Loyalist half does have value in giving us insight into the Lion's personality and character, which I think was done quite well. The half would have been completely throw away if not for that fact.

 

So final summary is: a decent, middling BL book, but lacking somewhat in comparison to the rest of the books in the Horus Heresy series, and undone to some extent by structure decisions and poor editing.

 

What We Learn About the Lion

 

I don't know what book the OP and the posters in the first two pages read, because the Lion in that book is quite a bit different than the Lion in the book I read.

 

As ODM and Lucifer have said, the Lion is revealed to be a brilliant and learned strategist (not necessarily tactician, actually... it could still be true, but the book trumpets Jonson's strategic thinking, never his tactical skill), but fatally flawed in that he is unable to judge people's motivations or personalities. This jives perfectly with the classic account of Jonson that we have had since 2nd edition. Brilliant in war, but needing Luther at his side to motivate and advise. This flaw hurts him in three different ways in the book: 1st, with Luther (NOT Luthor, by the way); 2nd, with Archoi the Techpriest; and 3rd and most crucially with Perturabo.

 

As for his loyalty, after reading Fallen Angels, it is unquestioned. He takes much the same tack towards treason as his children, the Dark Angels, have for the last ten thousand years. In other words, we now know where they get it from. Not culture; not events; not certain personalities in the Inner Circle; but from their Primarch. However, he is also ambitious. We have known that the Lion wanted the job of Warmaster from the 1st or 2nd book in the HH series when Horus mentions it in passing. Now we have it from the Lion's mouth. This does not besmirch his character in any way, however. Ambition is only seen as a bad thing if it leads one to do bad things. And with the Lion, he does nothing (intentionally) wrong.

 

Now, should the Lion have been Warmaster? The book indirectly raises the question, and the answer after the epilogue is a decided "No!" He would have been better than Horus, no doubt of that, simply because he would not have gone traitor. But his huge blind side towards others' personality and motivations would have made him nearly as bad a Warmaster as Horus. Perhaps an "Angels of Death"-style tag team of the Lion (for strategy) and Sanguinius (for charisma and motivating others) would have been the best solution. Throw Guilliman in there for logistics, perhaps.

 

The Rest of the Story

 

I am not as confident as ODM to "unravel the mystery" and explain why the Lion sent Luther and the others to Caliban. Nor am I prepared to say anything with certainty about the Watchers or Cypher. There will clearly be a 3rd novel, and Zahariel will clearly play a pivotal role in it. There will be more revelations to come, and I think there will be twists in the story about why Luther was sent home and what the Watchers and Cypher are really doing. There may be some shocking revelations about the Lion as well. It would be thematically very appropriate to reveal that the Lion, like his Legion, has a dark half which the loyal half has been for a long time hiding and trying to purge.

 

I will make a prediction about Zahariel, however. He will be one of the reluctant Fallen, one who is dismayed at the corruption of Chaos. He will likely be the one to warn the Lion on his return to Caliban. His knowledge of the name of the Demon of Caliban will play a large part in the coming novel as Luther desperately tries to get it from him.

[SamaNagol]

I thought the most interesting revelation was how they implied that Jonson scoured the beasts from the forests so that when his father came they would not delve deeper and discover the taint which he always knew was there. Couple of little morsels of information coalesced into that for me.

[Beef]

people keep talking about the lion sending his best men back to caliban to protect it from chaos. Thats utter bull in my opinion. If that was the case why did he not just tell Luther about the library and the chaos stuff. why let him find out himself or through Cypher. Also why have the soul surviving memeber of your arch enemy in your inner circle. Makes no sence,. I know the lion could not read people very well but you would have to be a complete idiot to allow that to happen.

 

I dont doubt his loyalty to the EMP but his motives. Hopefully the 3rd book will end all the speculation

[Chaplain Lucifer]

people keep talking about the lion sending his best men back to caliban to protect it from chaos. Thats utter bull in my opinion.

A bit more respect by other people's opinions would be nice. It's fine to disagree but courtesy goes a long way...

 

If that was the case why did he not just tell Luther about the library and the chaos stuff. why let him find out himself or through Cypher. Also why have the soul surviving memeber of your arch enemy in your inner circle. Makes no sence,. I know the lion could not read people very well but you would have to be a complete idiot to allow that to happen.

The Lion was the number one guy when it came to secrecy. He was born alone, raised in a Death world. Communication wasn't his forte... he did everything on need to know basis. Why would he ever tell his lieutenant that there were a greater power that could corrupt man and a whole planet. That would be nothing benefitial... Knowledge is power... power corrupts. Simply, on his mind and on the grand scheme of things, people on Caliban didn't need to know that chaos existed. The emperor himself hid it from everyone including his sons...why would Lion be different giving his nature?

 

Why was Cypher a knight of lupus is easily explained:

The Lion was a poor judge of character as we saw: he probably had a talk with said member and was sure that that man wouldn't betray him:

He hunted down Cypher and gave him a choice.. die orwork for me. He understood the guy was resourcefull and could be a powerfull ally. He also knew that cypher knew about chaos and the nature of beasts of Caliban. Upon realising his planet was tainted he needed someone around that could keep his Legion true.

The role of Luther wouldn't allow him to know of chaos and still aact in same manner , on the other hand the role of Lord Cypher is a postion where he can know secrets and advise ...but it's limited to adise the righ people at the right time... it's like Lion chose Cypher to be a sleeper agent.

What he didn't know was that the sleeper agent had it's flaws also... or could be swayed by Luther's oratory.

Same happens in the end of the book. He knows that Horus and 3 more brothers were rebel, but he never assumes any other would rebel... probably his ambition blinds him, or else he would trust siege engines to Perturabo...

[ODM]

people keep talking about the lion sending his best men back to caliban to protect it from chaos. Thats utter bull in my opinion. If that was the case why did he not just tell Luther about the library and the chaos stuff. why let him find out himself or through Cypher. Also why have the soul surviving memeber of your arch enemy in your inner circle. Makes no sence,. I know the lion could not read people very well but you would have to be a complete idiot to allow that to happen.

 

I dont doubt his loyalty to the EMP but his motives. Hopefully the 3rd book will end all the speculation

 

Well, if you read my post, I believe I explain why.

 

Aside from Lucifer's well explained answer, there's another. The same reason that Luthor wants it kept secret once they find out about the taint. It simply would not be possible to keep it a secret without involving his marines in a conspiracy to hide dark secrets for an indeterminant period of time from the Imperium. (ironic huh?)

 

And if it wasn't kept a secret, then the Imperium would remove the legion, its armies, and destroy Caliban.

 

A lose lose.

[The Shadow Guard]

Much seems to be said about the Lion's inability to judge humans and in particular his failure to realise that perturabo had also gone over to Horus' side.

 

But, then again, Rogal Dorn failed to realise that four of the seven legions he sent to quell Horus had turned.

 

The emperor failed to see his favoured son fall to Chaos

 

More so he utterly misread Magnus the Red's desperate warning...

 

Ferrus Manus, Corax and Vulkan utterly failed to see that their accompanying brothers in the Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers had fallen from grace and planning treachery on a massive scale.

 

Leman Russ failed to realise that Horus had goaded him in to razing prospero instead of bringing magnus back to the Emperor which would have left a powerful psycher at the Emperor's side (one he had planned to take the seat on the Golden Throne0

 

So I ask again, what in the emperor's name makes people state that the Lion read his brothers wrong? Everyoen else seems to have done just as badly or even worse....

[Terrahawk]

Also, why bother killing off Luther, Zahariel & co in the first place since we learn (or some people learned <_<) that the Lion wasn't sitting on the fence?

 

What is the Lion's motivation?

[FerociousBeast]

So I ask again, what in the emperor's name makes people state that the Lion read his brothers wrong? Everyoen else seems to have done just as badly or even worse....

 

Because it wasn't just Perturabo he misread. It was Luther and Archoi as well. Perturabo was just the ironic icing on the cake. Anyway, regardless of whether or not the Perturabo bit is indicative of the Lion's inability to read people, the book itself states that the Lion is unable to read people, so...

 

people keep talking about the lion sending his best men back to caliban to protect it from chaos. Thats utter bull in my opinion.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's "utter bull" (<_<), but I agree that we're being too quick here to jump to the "beneficent-savior-of-Caliban" conclusion. Mainly because the Lion at the end of Descent did NOT act happy with the marines he sent to Caliban. The end of Descent DOES indicate that Zahariel, Luther, et al, are sent to Caliban at least partially in punishment. There may of course have been more motive behind it, but I don't think we can completely dismiss the punishment part yet, since Fallen Angels does nothing itself to challenge the theory.

 

Also why have the soul surviving memeber of your arch enemy in your inner circle.

 

The book makes it fairly clear that the Knights of Lupus aren't the Lion's "archenemies." He needed them to be eradicated because they knew too much. But knowledge, as the book emphasizes, is power, and the Lion wanted that power. In other words, he needed the knowledge/power that the Knights had, and wanted to remove the threat that they posed. But it was never personal, and with the right loyalty and/or persuasion, there was no reason why an individual knight or two couldn't switch loyalty to the Lion. Whether or not Cypher is still loyal to the Lion remains to be seen. It is my prediction that he will end up being true to the Lion and his secret agenda, which I also predict we know nothing of yet.

 

Book three!

 

 

And, on a final note, I wanted to add an addendum to my review above, as regards the Lion's character. I think Mike Lee did a pretty good of weaving the Lion into the fabric of the Dark Angels Chapter of today. Specifically, we see in this book that the Lion could have been one of the most influential, powerful, and valuable of the primarchs if only his personality hadn't kept getting in the way so much. Sound familiar? It should... the Dark Angels, the 1st Legion, one of the most powerful chapters in the 41st millennium--and certainly among (if not the) most powerful in their own minds--are held back from a preeminent position in the Imperium almost solely because of their own personality.

 

100% pure geneseed (rarely used by the High Lords of Terra); one of the most powerful space-borne vessels and fleets in the Imperium; untarnished battle record; unmatched First Company; etc. Yet untrusted; continually probed by the Inquisition; many other Imperial entities holding grudges or suspicions towards them (Creed, Space Wolves, High Lords). Why? Personality.

[ODM]

To those who don't think the Lion sent back Luthor, Zahariel and the others to deal with the Chaos taint in the planet, what is the alternative?

 

A few things to take into account in the answer.

 

1) Luthor and the others don't believe they will be killed if the planet is found to be tainted by the Imperium. This is explained by one of the rebels. The most likely result would be the removal of the Legion and key Imperial assets, then the destruction of Caliban.

 

2) Cypher has been hand picked by the Lion, and knows Caliban's dark secret.

 

Given those two points, I don't think it's very likely that Luthor and his men were sent back "to die". In the first case, there's no real belief that they will. In addition, why would he send his hand picked "agent" back there, and have him advise Luthor of the Library, if this was his intent? Finally, if the Lion did believe the discovery of the Chaos taint would lead to their destruction, and that was his plan all along, why not then expose the Chaos taint to the Imperium? 50 years later and he's still letting his grand destruction plan still sit there? This makes the least sense of all.

 

I also don't think that a general "banishment" was the Lion's motive either. If we accept the discoveries the Luthor and Zahariel made, i.e. that the Lion has known since the Kinghts of Lupus that Caliban is tainted and has gone out of his way to hunt down the last Knight of Lupus and bring him into the DA fold, then we also have to accept their belief that the Lion thinks the Chaotic nature of the planet will come to light at some point. Why "banish" Luthor and his men to such a place, and then give them an advisor who understands what's going on?

 

If the Lion wasn't expecting Luthor, Zahariel, Cypher, etc. to deal with the Chaos taint on Caliban, then what was his plan? Why were those specific individuals sent to Caliban, and what did he think the end reslut would be?

[FerociousBeast]

Why "banish" Luthor and his men to such a place, and then give them an advisor who understands what's going on?

The "and then" in this sentence is in the wrong place. Cypher was already there when Luther and Friends show up at the beginning of the novel. Cypher was there, probably because he was the Lord Cypher of the Order and thus needed to stay with Caliban (by the way, we're all assuming he's Astartes, but I don' t think it's ever actually said that he was able to undergo the same Astartification that Zahariel and Nemiel were, does it?). Then, the Lion, being pissed at Luther for trying to kill him and Zahariel for a) not telling him about it and :D being a psyker and not telling him about it, and/or c) stealing the glory at Sarosh, exiles them to Caliban. The decision to leave Cypher on Caliban, as far as we can tell, was made long before the decision to exile Luther and Friends. So Cypher, his relationship to the Lion, and what he does or does not know can't really have anything to do with why Luther and Friends were exiled.

[ODM]

Why "banish" Luthor and his men to such a place, and then give them an advisor who understands what's going on?

The "and then" in this sentence is in the wrong place. Cypher was already there when Luther and Friends show up at the beginning of the novel. Cypher was there, probably because he was the Lord Cypher of the Order and thus needed to stay with Caliban (by the way, we're all assuming he's Astartes, but I don' t think it's ever actually said that he was able to undergo the same Astartification that Zahariel and Nemiel were, does it?). Then, the Lion, being pissed at Luther for trying to kill him and Zahariel for a) not telling him about it and :D being a psyker and not telling him about it, and/or c) stealing the glory at Sarosh, exiles them to Caliban. The decision to leave Cypher on Caliban, as far as we can tell, was made long before the decision to exile Luther and Friends. So Cypher, his relationship to the Lion, and what he does or does not know can't really have anything to do with why Luther and Friends were exiled.

 

Of course it can. 50 years have passed and thousands of marines have been shipped out to the front lines, yet Cypher stays as an advisor to Luthor.

 

And again, if we accept (as Luthor and co. believe) that the Lion knows of the Chaos, and knows it will be found/emerge at some time, why "exile" Luthor and Zahariel to Caliban? If it's punishment, why are they in charge of what the Lion knows will become a very difficult situation?

[FerociousBeast]

Again, Cypher was the first to be left behind, long before Luther. As the Lord Cypher of the Order, in charge of the Order's rituals and lore, his place was on Caliban. There's no reason to think he would have ever left Caliban or ever expected to.

 

And again, I'm not saying that the Lion doesn't want Luther and Friends to do something on Caliban, perhaps deal with the taint, perhaps something else. I'm just saying that it seems very much like punishment is part of the equation due to the end of Descent of Angels. The Lion doesn't seem happy with Luther and Zahariel at all.

 

I think there's more to it that the BL writers are saving for the third novel. We are, after all, discussing the central issue and possible misunderstanding that contributed to the development of the Fallen. Furthermore, I think it's clear that BL is trying to make both the Dark Angel AND Fallen Angel side sympathetic to the reader. I don't think the resolution to the issue is going to be a mere, "Oh, the Fallen misunderstood. If they'd only known how much the Lion loved them!"

 

In Fallen Angels, Luther rejects the Emperor for what he plainly is: a despoiler of planets and cultures, with Humanity in mind, not humans. His perspective and his grievance is valid. The third novel won't render his objection moot by stating simply that he misunderstood the Lion's intentions.

[ODM]

Again, Cypher was the first to be left behind, long before Luther. As the Lord Cypher of the Order, in charge of the Order's rituals and lore, his place was on Caliban. There's no reason to think he would have ever left Caliban or ever expected to.

 

And again, I'm not saying that the Lion doesn't want Luther and Friends to do something on Caliban, perhaps deal with the taint, perhaps something else. I'm just saying that it seems very much like punishment is part of the equation due to the end of Descent of Angels. The Lion doesn't seem happy with Luther and Zahariel at all.

 

I think there's more to it that the BL writers are saving for the third novel. We are, after all, discussing the central issue and possible misunderstanding that contributed to the development of the Fallen. Furthermore, I think it's clear that BL is trying to make both the Dark Angel AND Fallen Angel side sympathetic to the reader. I don't think the resolution to the issue is going to be a mere, "Oh, the Fallen misunderstood. If they'd only known how much the Lion loved them!"

 

In Fallen Angels, Luther rejects the Emperor for what he plainly is: a despoiler of planets and cultures, with Humanity in mind, not humans. His perspective and his grievance is valid. The third novel won't render his objection moot by stating simply that he misunderstood the Lion's intentions.

 

I guess I'm answering Beef's post at the same time as yours, and that's where wires are getting crossed. If the Lion is sending back Luthor et al to die with Caliban, then leaving Cypher on Caliban would indeed be very strange. First, as you say, he keeps the history of the Legion, and second, he would have the most access to the knowledge needed to save them.

 

Funnily enough, I felt very strongly that Zahariel and his brethren were being exiled after Descent, and although they still believe that, after this book I don't think that was the Lion's attention at all.

 

As for the third novel. I agree that Luthor has valid objections, the same often raised by other cultures in the previous books, but it looks like he'll make the same mistake and turn to Chaos (thinking he can control it) to try and defeat the Imperium, thus validating the Emperor's policies in the first place. It's the nature of the Imperium. It is a big part of what makes the tale of the Imperium so tragic even in it's glory days, and why the Last Church was such a good story.

 

I actually can see the final confrontation in my head, where the planet is coming apart and Luthor screams at the Lion, "you left us to die and betrayed caliban" as he strikes him down crackling with demonic power, and the Lion falls and says back, "I sent you to save caliban." Then Luthor realizes he should have listened to ODM, and the demon is banished, the Watchers take away the Lion's body, and Cypher smiles enigmatically, takes the Lion's sword and leaves. We'll have to come back to this post at some point in the future.

[Dammeron]

-SPOILER ALERT-

 

- This review will contain signficant spilers for anyone who has not read the book-

 

I rather enjoyed the precursor to this installment of the Horus Heresy series; Descent of Angels may have shifted focus away from the main body of the series story arc, but the details it provided on the most enigmatic of loyalist legions were toothsome and intriguing.

 

Its sequel is a much more hit and miss affair. Consisting of two concurrently occuring story arcs, the action is split between events on Caliban, where a significant proportion of the Dark Angels legion has been assigned/banished under the leadership of Luther, who is now apparently in Lion El Jonson's bad books following the previous book's conclusion, and the escapades of the main body of the Legion that, upon learning of Horus's treachery, take it upon themselves to wrest control of a particular forge-world from the traitor's clutches that, according to Jonson, may end up deciding the ultimate conclusion of the ensuing war.

 

One of these story lines consists of fascinating character development, subtle mystery, intrigue and examination of the moral ambiguity that has defined the very best stories in this series. The other is by-the-numbers filler evidently included to buff up the page count so that the book could be of standard "Horus Heresy" size. Can you guess which is which?

 

The stuff on Caliban is superb; characters such as Zahariel and Luther are given a significant amount of depth and character development, their motivations for the eventual treachery that will lead to the destruction of Caliban itself revealed as far more than the standard jealousy or megalomania that informs less well realised "villains" (see any occurence of the Word Bearers in the Horus Heresy series). Furthermore, there are moments of genuinely well realised horror and surrealism in these sections, making them an absolute joy to read.

 

The other story line is your by the numbers blah blah besieged space marines blah blah impossible odds blah blah go down fighting blah blah doggerel that could've been churned out by a computer if you simply fed it all of the recurring factors of Space Marine fiction. The only interesting stuff happens at the end when Jonson reveals some very, very interesting facets that makes him far more than your standard heroic loyalist archetype (in point of fact, he comes off as having an extremely cold, calculating and opportunistic side, obviously regarding the heresy as a means of ascending to the status he believes he is owed). The rest is dull, dull, dull, dull, making it a chore to wade through so that you can get back to the good stuff on Caliban.

 

So then, the worst of times; the best of times. I don't think I'm engaging in hyperbole when I say that this book contains some of the best writing in the Horus Heresy series, and certainly of the most intriguing and well developed characters. It also consists of some extremely mediocre material that you are going to have to be willing to wade through to get to the good stuff, but I'd say overall that it's worth it.

 

A sterling effort, and vastly, vastly superior to the hideous comic book two dimensionality of "Battle for the Abyss."

[Emperor's Instrument]

I thought those last 3 or so pages were brilliant, especially the last couple of lines in the book.

[Trel]

I enjoyed the on-Caliban parts of the book as well. The rest was profoundly 'meh'. I really would have like to have seen more of the Lion himself, as he turned out to be a deeper character with his own flaws than he was in the first book.

 

- SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! -

 

I especially liked the idea that a lot of his habit of playing his cards close to his chest stemmed from being a miserable judge of character and lacking in personal charisma. Certainly, that makes sense, given his zero-human-contact childhood. Obviously, the very end would not have happened if he were at all a halfway decent judge of character. Pretty much all the other primarchs were well aware that Perturabo was a bitter jerk and any other loyalist primarch would have surrounded himself only with the other primarchs he could trust the most. In the Lion's case: no one.

 

Seeing the Lion's ambition come to the fore was also exciting, setting up the possibility of a third book spent with the Lion setting up his own Legion to be mightiest when all the dust settles and then the beginnings of the cover-up the Dark Angels have to undertake when the war ends and necessary questions start to get asked.

 

...or they could just take the cheap route and have Luther make a power grab by aligning himself with the Ruinous Powers yadda yadda yadda.

 

Siege of Terra in 2012? How long must I wait to read about Dorn and his men of stone wreck face?

[Tybrus]

So I just finished Fallen Angels and I must say its a DAMN good book. The 1st book decent of Angels was trash IMHO I hated it and felt cheated after reading it. Then I read this one and it made Decent worth it. The back story was worth while, and Fallen was just great. I can't wait to read the 3ed book in the Saga.

 

My Only real bish comes from Astelen. After reading about him in Angels of Darkness I had a very diffrent view of how this would play out. Then again it was two differnt authors.

 

Ohh well anyone else have thoughts?

[Terrahawk]

I agree, a really good book which succeeded in making DoA even better. In my opinion the first chapter of Fallen Angels > entire DoA.

Astelan was just as I expected, because I knew he was lying after reading AoD. <_<

 

I'm hoping Mike Lee is penning the 3rd part of the story, because obviously I'm very pleased with how this one turned out.

[mega_marines]

My Only real bish comes from Astelen. After reading about him in Angels of Darkness I had a very diffrent view of how this would play out. Then again it was two differnt authors.

 

Ohh well anyone else have thoughts?

 

I personally thought he was perfect. He fit his role very well, and from his transition of books from the Horus Heresy series to AoD, he seems to be the character who has seen to much in his life. I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but I feel he was portrayed well.

[bravofour]

Ok so I’m only half way through the book but the way that Astelen is being portrayed is a little annoying if you ask me. He suppose to be a chapter Master right? That would be the equivalent of a 3 star general in modern 40K fluff? Yet he’s taking orders from a rookie Liberian (who cant even control himself, or really knows what hes doing) with less the 60 years total time in the legion, compared to his how many years from the wars on Terra? I guess that’s been a pet peeve of mine in this book so far. Being in the army myself I know how the chain of command and seniority really works, yet it seems in the dark Angels it means nothing. I call BS on that one. I don’t think the Terran Marines or even the older nights would stand for it. I understand that once in awhile you get a guy that’s dang good at what he does, but that still doesn’t overrule years of combat experience.

 

As for the book Im enjoying it. its a good read. Im noticing some screw ups on the editors part, but this the the BL we're talking about so its to be expected. Im enjoying both story lines even if one of them is the classic SM kill them all and pray to the Emperor type thing. well Ill post agin once complete, its been a joy reading what you guys have to say and seeing where you guys come from as I read along.

[DCEET]

++++SPOILER ALERT++++

 

It is true that Astelan out ranks Zahariel, Zahariel was chosen by Luthor to be his advisor so I believe that is why Astelan (almost certainly reluctantly) accepts Zahariel's orders.

 

Whilst I feel the story was one sided, I believe this thread has missed out another key character Nemiel. The Lion actually states that Nemiel would make a good interrogator. Why would he have said that? Marines aren't usually the ones doing the interrogating and if they were it would be far easier to use a Librarian. Unless the Lion had a need for interrogators? I feel in the third book that Nemiel will become the first Interrogator-Chaplain probably to interrogate Luthor and/or Zahariel.

 

I may be mixed up here as I was reading the book on a plane back from the States but did it give the name of Cypher? Ulient I think it was Sar Davial stated that was the name of the last knight of Lupus. Just an interesting fact I thought. If so, the Dark Angels have been pursuing "Cypher" for longer than they thought, as it was he who planned the assassination on the Emperor, Israfael was pursuing him and put the mental blocks in Zahariel's mind.

 

I wonder if during the ritual to attempt to bind the demon whether Zahariel may have actually been possessed by the daemon? That how he knew its name, and he knew the taint, the taint is him! Hence the being unconscious for 8 months and why that number "meant something" but he did not know what. 8 points on the Chaos star and all that.