Captain Ienai Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 So.. I made a post earlier about wanting to run Sons of Malice. I ran into a problem with my idea because I wanted to run with inducted guard with limited numbers of SoM. Having to use the new Chaos rule book had deterred me from this. However, as I delved into other armies books I found that the Demon Hunters cans till induct Imperial guard. So I began thinking... I could easily run SoM with Grey Knights rules. Granted I would lose a lot of upgraded weaponry, but the trade off to run them with guard makes me very happy. From what I know of the SoM, they are not mutated unless they are at the labyrinth, I don't see any reason why they would hang out in the EoT and expose themselves to the taint that the warp exudes, and their numbers should be small. Anyone have any opinions about running them with GK rules? Anyone have any idea why this may or may not work? Please share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 If you want to do something using GK's rules you should probably go ask on that forum for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ienai Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 The reason I was asking here is because the Sons of Malice are a Chaos Space Marine Chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 They're not Chaos, they're a "counts-as" the way you're using them. I'd suggest using the CSM Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ienai Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yes.. but they are suppose to be CSM... *sigh* I don't know how else to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 They're Chaos marines, it's been stated in the fluff. They're not renegades like the Soul Drinkers who cling to the Imperial fighting with mutations, they're Undivided Chaos Marines. Whether they use demons or not in the fluff is irrelevant at this point because to GW everyone Chaos is either marked or undivided :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Seems like a good idea to me. The problem I'd have with it is that the Grey Knights are not that hot an army, while Chaos Space Marines are actually a pretty rockin' army--if it were me, I'd stick to the rockin' army. But, if you don't really care about that and you want an elite space marine force leading cultists or traitorous humans, well, the Grey Knight rules would probably work out well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Ienai Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Seems like a good idea to me. The problem I'd have with it is that the Grey Knights are not that hot an army, while Chaos Space Marines are actually a pretty rockin' army--if it were me, I'd stick to the rockin' army. But, if you don't really care about that and you want an elite space marine force leading cultists or traitorous humans, well, the Grey Knight rules would probably work out well for you. Thats exactly what I wanted. I wanted an elite group of marines leading cultists. I heard that it is impossible to field cultists with CSM now. And I had an idea to use the Catachan to represent the feral mountainous population of the Sons of Malice Home World. I was going to paint them largely pale with war paint in halved black and white. The marines would be painted quartered black and white. This will allow me to use the imp guard codex with my SoM and seem a little more fluffy to me. Again... from everything I have found on followers of Malal and Malice there none to almost no mutations. Hell the marine in the short story Labyrinth was shocked to find that one of his brethren was mutated. This leads me to believe that the SoM are mostly active outside the EoT and being a second founding they might still cling to some of the old rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 And if they're followers of malal, they hate daemons, which would help the specifically anti-daemon gear and abilities from the DH codex fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 From what I've gleamed over, they're not followers of Malal. My friend, it's your call, use GK rules if you want hell, mix and match some homebrew and use Alpha Legion rules from 3.5 with this new codex if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sons of Malice were at one points Sons of Malal. And then there was that "power struggle", which they got turned into Sons of Malice. @Cale - I'm sure its sacrilegious for Chaos Marines to run around with Psycannons....I think they would spontaneously combust.... As far as I can tell...Sons of Malice are not that special, I think you'd be better off using 3.5 Codex as part of the Alpha Legion rules. Or.... C:SM 5th Edition, use regulars Space Marines, and swap out the Scouts as "Uber Cultists" or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabrothrax Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Sons of Malice were at one points Sons of Malal. And then there was that "power struggle", which they got turned into Sons of Malice. Excuse me? What are you on about? Back to the topic... it's a fine idea, but you'll find th the daemonunters codex, being rather old will present you with rules RAW/RAI issues. All praise Malice (or Malal :lol:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 New codex states Sons of Malice are a renegade chapter turned because of some dumbass inquisitor led an attack on them because they had cannibalistic rituals in their chapter, like a good portion of chapters. The attack failed and the inquisitor was ritualistically sacrificed, which led to them being declared heretics. Since then they've been pretty pissed off, legitimate reason to be of course, and have started siding with chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Umm... They're most certainly followers of Malal. GW cannot mention Malal due to a copyright disagreement they have with the creators of the character, but they wear his heraldry (the bisected skull) and his colors (black and white). Not to mention, they were also first shown in the 3.5 Ed Codex, which also featured the Dread Axe, which was a Daemon Weapon that was used to kill daemons of other chaos gods, a throwback to an old comic they had in one of the GW publications back in the 90s. So yes, Sons of Malice ARE followers of Malal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 However, it hasn't been stated, therefore it isn't canon. Just because there are similarities, and do indeed seem to be references to Malal, the fact remains that the Sons of Malice are a colour-scheme with several paragraphs of fluff behind them, none of which mention Malal. Several similarities don't make it utterly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinius Chosen Wing Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If i remember correctly the Sons of Malice have nothing to do with Malal. They were designed by a forum member who won a competition to in a WD in Europe(?) cant fully remember the details but he explained they were not meant to have any affiliation with Malal and are just renegades who worship Undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Shadow Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Grey Knights with Space Marine scout/Guard allies? The Grey Knights would be the Sons of Malice obviously and the Guard/Space Marine scouts can be the cultists, depending how strong/numerous you want your cultists :sick:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 If i remember correctly the Sons of Malice have nothing to do with Malal. They were designed by a forum member who won a competition to in a WD in Europe(?) cant fully remember the details but he explained they were not meant to have any affiliation with Malal and are just renegades who worship Undecided. I've seen many debates about the Sons of Malice over the years and I have to say thats the first time I've ever heard that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Neither have I, all I know is what the codex barely gleamed on showing, and what Lexicanum says, which says about how they were declared heretics. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons_of_Malice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Logic Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I know with count-as you can pretty much call an orange an apple if your explanation is "good enough", but C'MON! Sons of Malice as Grey Knights? Seriously? I say play the SoM with the Chaos codex, and if you're going to "count-as" anything, use the Lessor Daemons as your "inducted guard", or you can always go with a Regular Space Marine force, and then again "count-as" your Inducted Guard using the Scouts Troops. Oh and in regards to everybody going back and forth with the Sons of Malice worshiping Malal or not. GW has not explicetly said that they worship Malal (though they haven't said they have not either...) though they do have the colors and symbol of Malal (according to old fluff from a one off cartoon). So until they can clear up this small problem, the Sons of Malice are worshipers of Chaos Undivided. Nothing more nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do think all this counts-as-stuff is annoying. You'd have to hand your opponent a list of what is what, with pictures, everytime you play, which, frankly, I would not go with. So yeah, just use the chaos marine codex, imo. Oh and in regards to everybody going back and forth with the Sons of Malice worshiping Malal or not. GW has not explicetly said that they worship Malal (though they haven't said they have not either...) though they do have the colors and symbol of Malal (according to old fluff from a one off cartoon). So until they can clear up this small problem, the Sons of Malice are worshipers of Chaos Undivided. Nothing more nothing less. They are whatever you want them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 From now on, the Sons of Malice are the leftovers from the Rainbow Warriors. Problem solved. 2 birds with 1 stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Bottom line... You want to play Chaos Marines, use the Chaos Codex. You want to play Inqusition, use the DH / WH codex. I personally think if I'm stuck having to use the Chaos codex, so is everyone else. As Haelaeif said, this counts-as crap is getting tiring. And as far as I'm concerned, Sons of Malice = Worshippers of Malal. 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Loken Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Could you not just use Imperial Guard as allies? Just make a platoon up of conscripts. It would mean using two codex but if you ask nicely I'm sure your opponent wouldn't mind. And regarding the Sons of Malice, they certainly don't worship one of the 4 main gods. Read Heroes of the Space Marines. Obviously it's up to you as to wether or not you take it as canon. But GW always says there are more than 4 gods in the warp, it's just that those 4 gods are the most powerfull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The Sons of Malice worship Malice. Check out the new short-story in Heroes of the Space Marines for the 'retconned fluff'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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