malika666 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Just a little question. According to the HH novels Erebus became a personal advisor for Horus and manage to manipulate him to treason. That made me think. Were the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus the only Legion that got infiltrated by the Word Bearers like that, or did they send their "agents" to other Legions as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I wouldn't have thought so. Once Erebus worked his magic on Horus, Horus picked up the baton from there on. His influence made it much easier for him than the Word Bearers. All Erebus really needed to do was start the ball rolling and watch it go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fol_Muroj Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Chaplain Edict - After Nikaea. Designed to keep an eye on the Legiones Astartes. Chaplains to spread Imperial Truth and boost morale of battle-brothers through deeds and action. Possibly Astartes counterpart to Iterators. Warrior Lodges - Secret confraternities of battle-brothers of all ranks, quite often command ranks. Introduced to at least Legio XVI (Luna Wolves) by Word Bearers after first contact on Davin. What happened in the Lodge stayed in the Lodge. Word Bearers - Secretly heretics. Overtly the most devout and loyal of the Astartes. Who else was best suited, in the eyes of the other Legions, to spread the Imperial Truth. Horus - Possessed. Under Erebus' influence. Warmaster, in command of all eighteen Legiones Astartes. Can command any Astartes at any time. When you take these four elements, it's fairly simple to see. The Warrior Lodges originally were benign, a place for warriors to mingle and discuss matters that would normally remain untouched due to rank differentials and the like. These Warrior Lodges were a Davinite concept, brought to other Legions by the Word Bearers. Theoretically, since the Warrior Lodges of the Word Bearers were senior to those of other Legions, an emissary from a Word Bearer Lodge would have great prestige and influence over other Warrior Lodges. Unfortunately for the Imperium, the Emperor smacked down Lorgar, Kor Phaeron worked his ways, and soon the entire Legion worships Chaos secretly. Worse off, the Word Bearers hid it well, and are thought of as the most fanatical Legion with regards to Imperial Truth. Thus, when Horus was possessed and started plotting on how to show other Legions the "truth", he saw the Chaplain Edict as his method. The Word Bearers, still seen as Imperial fanatics, were best suited for this role. In addition, their influence on other Legions Warrior Lodges could have proved pivotal with regards to converting them to Chaos. So, it's very logical that the Word Bearers had a significant influence in the affairs of other Legions. Presumably some Legions, namely the Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Imperial Fists, were unaffected by said emissaries, presumably dispatching them swiftly with a bolt round once Horus' treachery was known. Other Legions, such as the Death Guard, Night Lords, and World Eaters, received these emissaries well. The World Eaters, turned to psychopathic madmen frothing for blood, would have welcomed the worship of Khorne, where they could have their killing and enjoy it more than ever. The Night Lords, seen as the garbage men of the Astartes, used and disposed of by the Emperor, would have been receptive to a message telling of the vengeance they could have on the Imperium that so abused them. The Death Guard, pragmatic to the end, and Mortarion, still bitter over having been rescued by the Emperor, gladly would have listened to a Word Bearer tell them of the supreme strength and toughness of Chaos. And so on. Lorgar, having seen the fruits of his use of Erebus, would have been a fool not to send more emissaries in the guise of Chaplains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sounds interesting, however...according to the fluff (Collected Visions) the Word Bearers were kind of shunned by the rest of the Legions, with only Horus sort of appreciating them (Horus mentioned in one of the novels that Lorgar was very wise). So did the Warrior Lodges also spread amongst those Legions who turned at Istvaan III (Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords)? Im especially curious about the Iron Warriors in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 the lodges were also in the emperor's children, though this lodge had a snobbish twist, being that only officers were allowed to join. sorry if this was already posted. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I remember that! I'm especially interested in how they would send agents. I'm pondering on working on some Iron Warriors and want to include a Word Bearer in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 So did the Warrior Lodges also spread amongst those Legions who turned at Istvaan III (Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords)? Im especially curious about the Iron Warriors in this matter.It doesn't mention the influence of the Word Bearers but there were lodges/cults in the Night Lords legion, emphasis in bold below.As his Space Marines fell in the front lines of battle, Night Haunter ordered new recruits from his home world of Nostramo. He knew the citizens of his home world would obey him without question, and was convinced that they would work towards the common good of the Imperium with the same dedication they evinced as his subjects. What Night Haunter did not know was that Nostramo had spiralled into the corrupt and decadent society it had been before he arrived. Only the most ruthless, hardy criminals remained healthy and strong on the cut-throat world of Nostramo, and it was these men, possessed of strength and vicious nerve but absolutely no scruples, that ended up populating the Night Lords' ranks. Warrior cults emerged within these black-eyed, pale recruits, pacts were made and oaths sworn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Is it just me or does it seem as if a lot of the corruption actually came from the Marines and not their Primarchs, meaning that it was the Space Marines who have corrupted their Primarchs. Curze perhaps switched due to these newer recruits, it were Kor Phaeron and Erebus who convinced Lorgar to turn to Chaos, Typhon turned Mortarion to Nurgle, Erebus practically turned Horus and Fulgrim to Chaos on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 That does seem to be the case except that each Primarch had a choice and when the chips were down they chose the wrong side and have never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I guess it was a decision in which you couldn't really take it back. I mean if you betray the Emperor you can't really go like "Sorry dad...my bad!". Also you might want to put in the factor that the Primarch, while superior, are still human. So on one hand we got the Emperor's errors in parenting (big example being the way how he handled Angron), and on the other hand we got the Primarch's marines manipulating them. Oh yeah and the personal (traumatic) circumstances each of the Primarchs have experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The Death Guard, pragmatic to the end, and Mortarion, still bitter over having been rescued by the Emperor, gladly would have listened to a Word Bearer tell them of the supreme strength and toughness of Chaos. Wasn't it Angron, not Mortarion, that was rescued by the Emperor against his will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Did Curze actually turn to Chaos? He rebelled against the Emperor, that is true, but I don't recall him and his legion (while he was alive) turning to the worship of Chaos. That came later, after the rebels were defeated and had to retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I supose it would be nice to know the thoughts of the Primarchs now. Do they have any regrets or have they all been so twisted by chaos that they don't relise or care what they have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fol_Muroj Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Wasn't it Angron, not Mortarion, that was recused by the Emperor against his will? Angron was teleported away, leaving his army to die. Mortarion had one last Barbarun Overlord left to kill, the one who had raised him. The Emperor warned Mortarion that he could not kill the Overlord. Mortarion shrugged and walked off. Mortarion was felled by the toxins (meaning that the final Overlord was living in Chernobyl or somesuch), the Overlord came out to finish Mortarion off, the Emperor shanked the Overlord. That was all. Mortarion, of course, didn't take it too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 You know I have always wondered why the Emperor didn't just help Angron win the battle or take Angrons men too. Surly they were no less worthy than any of the other primarchs retainers, friends and retinues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 since the source of that is the old IA articles, where all bad guys had twirling mustaches and good guys halos, i would wait and see if the BL writes a book that goes into more details on why the emperor didnt like... maybe the slaves were too malnourished to survive the transformation? maybe the slaves' brutality had them worshipping certain chaos gods? maybe the slaves defiance of order (regardless of source) made them questionable selection choices? (this is a stretch, as luna wolves were prisoners before transformation, raven guard were terrorists, night lords batsh!t crazy...) but there might be many reasons, but most people like to just villify the emperor without wondering about his position. its easier to hate him that way. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 No Vilafacation here it just seems to me that would have been the simplist way to get Angron to coperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 What if Angron refused help from the Emperor, either due to his own code of honour, or because he was simply an insane loon who lacked the diplomatic skills? But ok...we are getting very off topic here! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Fellblade Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Erebus went the whole way and told Typhon everything quite a while before he went to visit the Luna Wolves according to Typhons little monologue section in FotE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 Hmm, I guess we will just have to wait until the books on the Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and World Eaters are out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Erebus went the whole way and told Typhon everything quite a while before he went to visit the Luna Wolves according to Typhons little monologue section in FotE. Though it's unclear to me how Typhon found out about Chaos, as I recall he was independently experimenting with Nurglite spells and rituals for a good while before Horus was turned. Erebus probably sensed the growing Chaos within him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Erebus went the whole way and told Typhon everything quite a while before he went to visit the Luna Wolves according to Typhons little monologue section in FotE. Though it's unclear to me how Typhon found out about Chaos, as I recall he was independently experimenting with Nurglite spells and rituals for a good while before Horus was turned. Erebus probably sensed the growing Chaos within him. It probably had somthing to do with the poisons and toxsins he consumed on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Erebus went the whole way and told Typhon everything quite a while before he went to visit the Luna Wolves according to Typhons little monologue section in FotE. Though it's unclear to me how Typhon found out about Chaos, as I recall he was independently experimenting with Nurglite spells and rituals for a good while before Horus was turned. Erebus probably sensed the growing Chaos within him. Typhon was born a psyker. There's your link. :P TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fol_Muroj Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I thought he had some tainted blood within him from the Barbarun Overlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yes he did, Tyhpon was half barbarian overlord. As for why the EMP did not save angron men. simple, It gave GW the chance to make a story out of it. As for Erubus, he did try to approach the SW but Freki and Geri nearly ate him before he could even enter the Fang so he jumped back on his shuttle and flew home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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