After Reading Heroes of the (Chaos) Space Marines...

[Prot]

Do not read this if you do not want to know any of the details of the chaos story within the pages of Heroes of the Space Marines novel.....

 

 

 

 

After reading heroes of the space marines....

 

I want to see more Huron Blackheart! He is more of what I look for in a great bad guy.

 

Being a long time Iron Warriors player, I envision my Warsmith as wanting to crush the pathetic Honsou. But I'd imagine my Warsmith would get along swimingly with Huron.

 

The scene in which Huron puts Honsou in his place brought a smile to my face. The upstart little peon with a few nifty toys certainly was in over his head when he refused to submit to Huron's authority. Huron could have snuffed him out right there, but obviously the peon warsmith has a scheme worth seeing out.

 

I enjoyed the fleshing out of his little Hamadraya thingy... I sort of see it as that bizare Cheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland... a truly bizarre creature that probably has a lot more going on under the surface. I want a Hamadraya now. :D

 

The stature of Huron is befitting his legend. Seemingly a giant among giants, it now seems his Codex rules are far beneath him. In fact he seemed to kind of induce the kind of fear AND rare combination of 'capability' that I USED to associate with Abaddon. (who in my mind has been relegated to that 'annoying uncle' you have over ever Christmas.... no real threat to the Imperium, but you know he's going to drink too much, eat all your turkey, fart on your couch and then leave with little harm done, but he'll be back next year... that sort of thing.)

 

We only get a small piece of Huron in that story, but I certainly want more!

[Magnus Thane]

Bah people always underestimate the Warmaster... Hmpf. -___-

 

But yeah Huron is cool as are the Red Corsairs. Makes me curious about the story.

[minigun762]

Wasn't a bad little story I thought.

Kinda nice that they make the special characters seem, well special. As their rules are rather lack-luster.

 

Minor spoiler:

 

 

 

I did like the Slaaneshi Champion who joins up. An interesting little turn of events.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I'm thinking a post-Heresy book based on Huron would be a great ending to the series... or maybe just a continuation before looking at each of the 13 black crusades...

 

i've not read the book (hadn't heard of it before this... how embarassing!) but think a follow up to really delve in to his back story and then follow on from that when the Heresy series is done, would be great!

 

Oh and i think this just reaffirms that once again, Chaos Special Characters ain't so special...

[TheDarkApostle]

I'm thinking a post-Heresy book based on Huron would be a great ending to the series... or maybe just a continuation before looking at each of the 13 black crusades...

 

i've not read the book (hadn't heard of it before this... how embarassing!) but think a follow up to really delve in to his back story and then follow on from that when the Heresy series is done, would be great!

 

Oh and i think this just reaffirms that once again, Chaos Special Characters ain't so special...

Can't be anything but post-heresy since Huron was born in the 41'st millenium ;)

 

TDA

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

I thought that story was one of the worst in the whole book. The characters are flat, they almost scream Mary Sue at anyone who would listen, and the story was entirely without a single twist or unexpected turn of events. The way that "double traitor twist" was put in was so sluggishly one could almost see it coming before one buys the book. And then there is the matter of those strange books Honsou studies. He studies them, yes? So.. what is it then that is interesting about them? There should have been one more hint at something to make this a plot-hook to be taken up later on. The way it reads now, it might just as well be pornographic novels he reads to take his mind of things.

 

The depiction of Huron was, to my mind, way over the top. He has not been a chaos marine for more than a millenium, he is not very impressive, storywise, and here he seems to be a god. Sorry, but to me, that is silly (although that Honsou guy was even more silly, but meh).

[Magnus Thane]

Huron is a 'hero' char. Granted he might not be of the level of Abaddon or some of the others. He remains one of the most important Chaos Space Marines out there.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

I am not saying Huron was not a good fighter and chaos hero. What I am saying, though, is that the way he was depicted in this story was so in-your-face-godlike that I wonder how Mr. McNeill would portray people people like the primarchs.

 

Add to that the fact that Honsou (or one of his personality-free lackeys) killed Huron's sorceress without any form of retaliation, which completely undoes the picture of Huron we got before, and we clearly see that Huron was used as a plot device without any consistent character, but adapted as was necessary for portraying Mary Sue. I mean Honsou, sorry.

[Magnus Thane]

Ah like that, well i haven't read the story yet so i can't comment on that.

I misinterpreted your words in that case, my apologies. I thought you meant he was basically just a powerful Chaos Lord. While in the WH40K universe he remains somewhat unique powerwise. Not to mention extremely cunning.

 

As for Honshou, i rather liked him in Storm of Iron and the Ultramarines Omnibus. Can't judge him in this story though for obvious reasons.

[Night Stalker]

I thought you meant he was basically just a powerful Chaos Lord. While in the WH40K universe he remains somewhat unique powerwise. Not to mention extremely cunning.

There are other, most powerful chaos lords around. Many of them. But yeah Chaos Lord > Chapter master often. (SoV: Alpha Legion Lord > Azrael - one of the best loyalist fighters)(novels are most often biased and mary sue).

[Magnus Thane]

True. Chaos is frequently wussy in Imperial orientated novels. While Chaos orientated novels will depict them as epically powerful.

Unsurprising.

 

Oh and Night Stalker... what do i see there... Codex: Black Legion? *grins intrigued and goes to check it out*

[Lord_Caerolion]

Huron is a 'hero' char. Granted he might not be of the level of Abaddon or some of the others. He remains one of the most important Chaos Space Marines out there.

 

I hate to say it, but story-wise, he's pretty much a nobody in the list of "threats to the Imperium". He hasn't really done anything but give the Imperium the finger, and raid some Chapters. The Badab War was his one claim to fame, and apart from involving a few other Chapters, wasn't particularly that large-scale.

[Prot]

Don't miss the point I'm trying to make here....

 

I'm saying in a fluff background where Chaos stinks, Huron looks to be a 'real' threat. A threat I'd like to see more of.

 

All Chaos players know that we (chaos) are basically a footnote in all the 'hero' tales from the Imperium side of the story. Personally, I'm sick of it. I used to be a big fan of Abe's, but stuck it out with my Iron Warriors, and the closest moment we ever had was the Eye of Terror campaign.

 

That was a big moment for us. For once Chaos looked to be a real threat. Abe had summoned the legions... and we came. He promised great prizes, and much slaughter. A chance to take it right back to the Imperium.

 

That campaign was impressive. I remember the Iron Warriors worked with other legions and we actually took over a Forgeworld! We did it with the Death Guard. We were sure there was going to be a good outcome because of it. Some even hinted that future rules might change as a result. The only thing we got was a foot note in a White Dwarf.

 

Since then we've had nothing, but a bad codex, and worse story telling. I can't stand Honsou. I always saw Iron Warriors as cunning, and deceptively aggressive. Not half-arsed leaders of cruddy 'war bands' with 'half-breed' syndrome. Personally I'd rather know more of the Warsmith that came before Honsou, the one that ascended to Daemon hood in Storm of Iron.

 

I happen to like the depiction of Huron. One of his sorcerer's died... and he didn't care. So what...? She obviously wasn't much more than a fortune teller was she?

 

Huron (from the short story) seems to have appreciable assets. Titans, and faithful from several chapters... not to mention he seems to be favoured by Chaos. I see him as someone that is a real threat to the assets of the Imperium.

 

For those of you wanting Chaos to construct some sort of "death star" that's going to warp on over to mighty Terra and Zap it into oblivion... give it up. It isn't going to happen. Never.

 

So far I don't see any other Chaos figures rising to the occasion. I have half a mind to start submitting to Black Library myself... partially out of desperation. Most of the legions (chaos) are depicted terribly, and inaccurately. How many stories have we read where Death Guard are basically inter-galactic space zombies? Or World Eaters are portrayed as simpleton cage fighters?

 

I still think Huron has it going on. He's got the bling, and the respect of Chaos. I want to see this guy take down some major Imperial asset. Something that clearly says to the Imperium, "I'm here. I'm not afraid of you and I'm not going anywhere. Come get me."

[David the Despoiler]

Don't miss the point I'm trying to make here....

 

I'm saying in a fluff background where Chaos stinks, Huron looks to be a 'real' threat. A threat I'd like to see more of.

 

All Chaos players know that we (chaos) are basically a footnote in all the 'hero' tales from the Imperium side of the story. Personally, I'm sick of it. I used to be a big fan of Abe's, but stuck it out with my Iron Warriors, and the closest moment we ever had was the Eye of Terror campaign.

 

That was a big moment for us. For once Chaos looked to be a real threat. Abe had summoned the legions... and we came. He promised great prizes, and much slaughter. A chance to take it right back to the Imperium.

 

That campaign was impressive. I remember the Iron Warriors worked with other legions and we actually took over a Forgeworld! We did it with the Death Guard. We were sure there was going to be a good outcome because of it. Some even hinted that future rules might change as a result. The only thing we got was a foot note in a White Dwarf.

 

Since then we've had nothing, but a bad codex, and worse story telling. I can't stand Honsou. I always saw Iron Warriors as cunning, and deceptively aggressive. Not half-arsed leaders of cruddy 'war bands' with 'half-breed' syndrome. Personally I'd rather know more of the Warsmith that came before Honsou, the one that ascended to Daemon hood in Storm of Iron.

 

I happen to like the depiction of Huron. One of his sorcerer's died... and he didn't care. So what...? She obviously wasn't much more than a fortune teller was she?

 

Huron (from the short story) seems to have appreciable assets. Titans, and faithful from several chapters... not to mention he seems to be favoured by Chaos. I see him as someone that is a real threat to the assets of the Imperium.

 

For those of you wanting Chaos to construct some sort of "death star" that's going to warp on over to mighty Terra and Zap it into oblivion... give it up. It isn't going to happen. Never.

 

So far I don't see any other Chaos figures rising to the occasion. I have half a mind to start submitting to Black Library myself... partially out of desperation. Most of the legions (chaos) are depicted terribly, and inaccurately. How many stories have we read where Death Guard are basically inter-galactic space zombies? Or World Eaters are portrayed as simpleton cage fighters?

 

I still think Huron has it going on. He's got the bling, and the respect of Chaos. I want to see this guy take down some major Imperial asset. Something that clearly says to the Imperium, "I'm here. I'm not afraid of you and I'm not going anywhere. Come get me."

 

 

Very well said. I agree. The Despoiler, Typhus, Fabius, the Daemon Primarchs, Khârn, and so on, all simply sit within the Eye of Terror biding their time. And I happen to find it quite disappointing. They promise a "never ending Black Crusade", but when will they make good on that? When will the traitor Legions and Daemon Primarchs truly commit themselves to conquering the diseased and sickly Imperium? Considering how well the Imperial Forces are selling, I can tell you, not any time soon.

[Night Stalker]

Don't miss the point I'm trying to make here....

 

I'm saying in a fluff background where Chaos stinks, Huron looks to be a 'real' threat. A threat I'd like to see more of.

 

All Chaos players know that we (chaos) are basically a footnote in all the 'hero' tales from the Imperium side of the story. Personally, I'm sick of it. I used to be a big fan of Abe's, but stuck it out with my Iron Warriors, and the closest moment we ever had was the Eye of Terror campaign.

 

That was a big moment for us. For once Chaos looked to be a real threat. Abe had summoned the legions... and we came. He promised great prizes, and much slaughter. A chance to take it right back to the Imperium.

 

That campaign was impressive. I remember the Iron Warriors worked with other legions and we actually took over a Forgeworld! We did it with the Death Guard. We were sure there was going to be a good outcome because of it. Some even hinted that future rules might change as a result. The only thing we got was a foot note in a White Dwarf.

 

Since then we've had nothing, but a bad codex, and worse story telling. I can't stand Honsou. I always saw Iron Warriors as cunning, and deceptively aggressive. Not half-arsed leaders of cruddy 'war bands' with 'half-breed' syndrome. Personally I'd rather know more of the Warsmith that came before Honsou, the one that ascended to Daemon hood in Storm of Iron.

 

I happen to like the depiction of Huron. One of his sorcerer's died... and he didn't care. So what...? She obviously wasn't much more than a fortune teller was she?

 

Huron (from the short story) seems to have appreciable assets. Titans, and faithful from several chapters... not to mention he seems to be favoured by Chaos. I see him as someone that is a real threat to the assets of the Imperium.

 

For those of you wanting Chaos to construct some sort of "death star" that's going to warp on over to mighty Terra and Zap it into oblivion... give it up. It isn't going to happen. Never.

 

So far I don't see any other Chaos figures rising to the occasion. I have half a mind to start submitting to Black Library myself... partially out of desperation. Most of the legions (chaos) are depicted terribly, and inaccurately. How many stories have we read where Death Guard are basically inter-galactic space zombies? Or World Eaters are portrayed as simpleton cage fighters?

 

I still think Huron has it going on. He's got the bling, and the respect of Chaos. I want to see this guy take down some major Imperial asset. Something that clearly says to the Imperium, "I'm here. I'm not afraid of you and I'm not going anywhere. Come get me."

The same could be said about many other Chaos Lords ? Question is - Why Huron ? He is not special - he is generic Lord who happend to be successful like many Generic Lords before.

[Magnus Thane]

The Red Corsairs could become a nasty threat. Yes in the grand scale he's not that big a thing. But frankly most Chaos Lords aren't.

However comine the efforts of a lot of the big Chaos Lords and you get trouble.

 

As for Abby, he has done a lot actually. The fluff has underlined this. It is CANON that he has destabilized entire regions. You think so many Legions, warbands and powerful entities would support him if he was a moronic pathetic nobody?

The criticism is awfully unfounded. The timeline stagnates. (Cadian conflict is still not over) And if he succeeds in pushing through to Terra, the entire setting will undergo dramatic changes.

Personally i'd rather not have that. I used to play L5R. And though i still love the setting i know these changes can both make and break a storyline/background.

 

Huron is cool as he does great things with very limited resources. He's also situated in a very intrigueing area and has some great fluff surrounding the Corsairs, which i'd love to see expanded.

Fellows like Abaddon and factions like the Iron Warriors, Black Legion etc are indeed more 'restrained'. But they do put out large scale operations when the time is right and with great efficiency.

Time in the end is not against them but against the Empire.

Plus... in the end a lot takes place in the Warp. And chaos is quite chaotic not to mention the typical excuse of the ways of the Chaos Gods are hard to understand, applies to this matter.

[Lay]

The scene in which Huron puts Honsou in his place brought a smile to my face. The upstart little peon with a few nifty toys certainly was in over his head when he refused to submit to Huron's authority. Huron could have snuffed him out right there, but obviously the peon warsmith has a scheme worth seeing out.

That's rather amusing since Honsou should be significantly older and experienced than Huron. Heck, it reminds me of that scene in "Storm of Iron" where the Warsmith tells him that he has to spend further thousand years in his service before he's allowed to give him personal advice. Blackheart probably hasn't been alive that long.

 

Question is - Why Huron ? He is not special - he is generic Lord who happend to be successful like many Generic Lords before.

Honestly, the big fish in the Maelstrom should be Kor Phaeron.

[Prot]

The same could be said about many other Chaos Lords ? Question is - Why Huron ? He is not special - he is generic Lord who happend to be successful like many Generic Lords before.

 

With Chaos there's always going to be the 'what have you done for me lately?' aspect.

 

Some followers of Chaos are content to be cogs in the machine. Some have greedy motivations, some aspire to personal glory, perhaps on a small, or grand scale.

 

I think Huron goes beyond these things. In addition, he hasn't 'fallen' to any one god (like Abe). He is favoured by many.

 

Perhaps the most impressive stat is his ability to take the 'untaintable' right arm of the imperium and twist it. Make it his own. And throw it right back at the Imperium. How many Chapters have in whole or in part discarded their Imperium beliefs and taken up the ways of Huron Blackheart?

 

That takes charisma, and leadership. We're talking beyond simple butchery, or short sighted hooliganisms. This guy walks the walk. Huron is not only a very real threat in an obvious manner, being the physical, but he threatens the very belief system of the Imperium. It is recorded many times that when the Imperium is attacked, they are continually surprised the number of 'Index Astartes' they are fighting off.... specifically those thought to be loyal.

 

Now in my mind that is a real threat. This is a guy who seems to be able to dictate 'order' in chaos. He's a man with a plan, and he's got the guns, and the charisma, backed up by real leadership. That's why "Huron" and not some other.... common Chaos Lord.

[Night Stalker]

To me Huron is common chaos lord. Many of them have better guns, more charisma, better leadership and more brilliant plan. Many of them successfuly corrupt imperial astartes. Huron is just the one described in the codex. Nothing else. What great deeds he performed ?

 

Huron lacks experience, and is young. It's mid-tier lord. It amuse me that such lowly creature take so much attention. Perhaps it's one of the codex writter favourite chapter that idealy could be described as 'bland renegade' [to create codex: chaos renegades].

[Prot]

Very well said. I agree. The Despoiler, Typhus, Fabius, the Daemon Primarchs, Khârn, and so on, all simply sit within the Eye of Terror biding their time. And I happen to find it quite disappointing. They promise a "never ending Black Crusade", but when will they make good on that? When will the traitor Legions and Daemon Primarchs truly commit themselves to conquering the diseased and sickly Imperium? Considering how well the Imperial Forces are selling, I can tell you, not any time soon.

 

Exactly... kind of what I'm saying about 'what have you done for me lately'. Even Perturabo.... where is this guy?

 

As far as the fiction is concerned, Huron definitely looks good. A real threat. Don't get me wrong I do like Abaddon. I think he's been glazed over too many times, and is almost becoming an empty threat.

 

For a while there when he was trying take control of those ancient black fortresses, things got interesting. If I can recall I believe Eldrad died trying to stop him during this time. In the end, he faded out. Unfortunately a lot of the original Legions seem to be sort of stuck in short term goals... even Lucius has to be getting bored by now. Typhus seemed to have something going for him.... but again we get nothing from the Black Library. Still for a next gen' Chaos Lord, I like Huron. He's pro-active, you gotta like that about a Chaos guy.

[Night Stalker]

Have you heard about Arkos ?

[Lord_Caerolion]

That takes charisma, and leadership. We're talking beyond simple butchery, or short sighted hooliganisms. This guy walks the walk. Huron is not only a very real threat in an obvious manner, being the physical, but he threatens the very belief system of the Imperium. It is recorded many times that when the Imperium is attacked, they are continually surprised the number of 'Index Astartes' they are fighting off.... specifically those thought to be loyal.

 

Now in my mind that is a real threat. This is a guy who seems to be able to dictate 'order' in chaos. He's a man with a plan, and he's got the guns, and the charisma, backed up by real leadership. That's why "Huron" and not some other.... common Chaos Lord.

 

Yet in his biggest, most famous war, the multitude of other Chapters that sided with him didn't turn. Since then, sure, he's had a number of individuals join up with him, but nothing large scale. That isn't surprising. He's a decent-sized warband in an area otherwise clear of Chaos threats. Who else are those rebel squads going to join? The same can be said for Abaddon with the rebels in the Segmentum Obscurus, who would almost definitely join the Black Legion.

 

So no, he doesn't seem to have massive charisma, and an ability to corrupt. His largest-scale "turning" ended up being that the other Chapters did so out of a misplaced sense of pride, not that he'd corrupted them. His "guns"... he has Titans, sure, but Abaddon and the Legions have the Dark Mechanicus, which is Titans + Daemon Engines.

And as for a plan? I've never gotten the sense of a plan from the guy. He's always seemed to me to be someone that got to power, then got annoyed that he had to share it, so gave the Imperium the finger, and barely escaped with his life. Since then, he's been playing "bandit" in the Maelstrom, performing petty raids on passing ships.

 

And how do you figure Abaddon's "fallen to one god"? Unless the fluff's changed dramatically very recently, Abaddon has the highest favour of all 4 Gods, and has since shortly after the Heresy. I doubt Huron's even been offered Daemonhood once.

 

For those of you wanting Chaos to construct some sort of "death star" that's going to warp on over to mighty Terra and Zap it into oblivion... give it up. It isn't going to happen. Never.

We're not asking for that. We're asking for the seeming new poster-boy for Chaos to have done something more than rebel and launch a few small-scale raids here and there.

 

I want to see this guy take down some major Imperial asset. Something that clearly says to the Imperium, "I'm here. I'm not afraid of you and I'm not going anywhere. Come get me."

So do I, because until then, he's one of a multitude of other identical Renegade Marines. Personally, I'd love to see a new threat to the Imperium in the form of Huron. Have him actually corrupt a whole Chapter or two. Expand his pirate empire beyond the Maelstrom. The fact remains, he hasn't done that yet, and isn't a threat no matter how you spin his deeds. So far, his actions have said "yeah, I fought against you, and ran off. Keep those convoys coming near me, so we don't starve, thanks."

[Night Stalker]

He is too weak to be leader. I'd want to see someone else - someone with class, experience and skills - not this wannabe pirate.

 

He is not cool.

[the jeske]

well thats what he is in the end . he has maybe half a chapter of sm , maybe more . but even if he had a 1k sm +the khorn cult , the real power in the storm are the WB . sure stories always make the "hero" seem imba , but the truth is he is nothing more then many of chaos lords with not even the biggest warband in the storm .

[Lord_Caerolion]

If he managed to get a distinct, large-scale victory under his belt, he could be a leader, a rallying point for those disillusioned with the Imperium. Thats really the problem with him, I can more see him in charge of an under-equipped rabble of troops, a Lost and the Damned army, rather than Chaos Marines. So far though he merely raids passing convoys, and sits in the Maelstrom.