greatcrusade08 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Hey guys me again.. I probably handled my last thread a little badly, i kept throwing lists at you all with no idea of what i was doing, much like a blind man reaching for a top shelf magazine. anyhoo what i really want to know is what makes a good mono-khorne army, what units are an absolute must have or must avoid.. Im now not too bothered with the god number 8, tbh what i have already seen it tends to confuse matters a bit too much. also which are better Daemon princes or soulgrinders.. or do you use both?? Im kind of interested in daemonzilla, but is it effective on the tabletop? Any help appreciated, i figure id do the research properly before deciding what to buy... Shopping starts in a couple of weeks :P GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Daemonzilla is very good and quite effective, however in all honestly I wouldn't call it a tourny list. It has good matchups and bad matchups like most lists, but they're a bit more extreme, you find yourself up against a 'nid or ork horde and you're going to have a seriously hard time winning the game. Of course while most daemon armies struggle against mech armies, daemonzilla tends to roll through them quite quickly, and the lack of killpoints is good, mono-Khorne daemonzilla might be harder though due to lack of soporific musk (invaluable against tarpitting) and good scoring units. Bloodcrushers are an excellent unit, in a balanced (i.e. non-daemonzilla) list, I'd take at least two squads of four. I prefer fiends overall but this is mono-Khorne we're talking about, and no-one will deny that 'crushers are very effective on the tabletop. Bloodletters make excellent troop killers, they die like flies but the few that make it through will do a fair bit of damage, a bit too fragile for my tastes but they do have excellent killing power. Two bloodthirsters. Heralds are good, don't get me wrong, but you need the anti-tank, and bloodthirsters are by far our best anti-tank unit. With unholy might they auto-pen most vehicles on the charge, and blessing of the blood god protects them from enemy psychic abilities. The other options really aren't needed, death strike is far too expensive and instruments are just points filler, plus I think it was OMG who said that giving a bloodthirster an instrument is insulting. He will not draw a combat, I guarantee it. Soulgrinders vs princes is a long standing debate with no real answer, they're both excellent units in their own right. However, I'd probably recommend soulgrinders for a mono-Khorne list, I'm a fan of daemon princes (ask anyone) but Khorne princes really are the weakest of the five, and soulgrinders generally outperform them. I wouldn't use both, yolu need to spam your heavy support choice, not dilute it. Whichever one you do end up going for, take at least two, preferably three, depending on points. Now, flesh hounds, the only Khorne unit that doesn't ignore armour saves. To be honest, they kinda suck for the points. They have some interesting tactical uses thanks to their 12" charge, but when it comes down to it, bloodletters kill a lot more and only cost one more point. Good luck. Edit- Oops, looks like I built a text wall by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Wow, i should have just sent you a PM :) thats extremely useful thanks cap'n Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 For what it's worth, I agree with pretty much the entirety of Cap Malachi's post. The only thing I'd like to say is that Flesh Hounds do have a place in Mono-Khorne lists in my opinion. Generally they're good in squads of 10-12, and when a Hound is given Fury plus Karanak tags along the unit can hit really hard and do an impressive amount of damage on the charge, even to MEQs. Good luck with the Daemon army! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 One of the guys around here runs a mono-khorne list. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure this is what he's running. Bloodthirster Skulltaker on Juggz 4x Bloodcrushers 4x Bloodcrushers 4x Bloodcrushers 8x Bloodletters 8x Bloodletters, icon 8x Bloodletters, icon 3x Soul Grinder with phlegm. Of course, the only game I saw him play he lost, but it was to a beardy eldar force. He may have been running 2 soul grinders instead of 3, and then running a Kherald on a juggz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Good ol' Cap'n M has it down, but I gotta toss out some other ideas as well. First, Fleshhounds actually make fairly decent tank busters (dogs eating tanks, crazy you say!?). The reason being is that they will always get the charge on non-walker units so you're comparing S5 against AV10 for the most part. With enough attacks, that will bring down (or atleast stun lock) most vehicles. They also have the speed needed to catch those vehicles in the first place. I'll come right out and say it, I don't like the Skulltaker. He seems overpriced in an army that excels at killing basic infantry. Bloodletters are pretty decent in most regards, like Orks they tend to rely on getting the charge in but they're still deadly without it. Their biggest threat is walkers, because unless you take Fury, you're unable to actually hurt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Eltor Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hey, what about this? Enough evil troops to give others coversaves, to hold objectives and to make shooting of one unit uneffective! Excuse the german text parts inbetween! It is a german tool! *************** 2 HQ *************** Bloodthirster - Unholy Might - - - > 270 Punkte Bloodthirster - Unholy Might - - - > 270 Punkte *************** 2 Elite *************** 4 Bloodcrushers of Khorne - Chaos Icon - - - > 185 Punkte 4 Bloodcrushers of Khorne - Chaos Icon - - - > 185 Punkte *************** 6 Standard *************** 8 Bloodletters of Khorne - - - > 128 Punkte 8 Bloodletters of Khorne - - - > 128 Punkte 8 Bloodletters of Khorne - - - > 128 Punkte 8 Bloodletters of Khorne - - - > 128 Punkte 8 Bloodletters of Khorne - - - > 128 Punkte 8 Bloodletters of Khorne - - - > 128 Punkte *************** 2 Unterstützung *************** Soul Grinder of Chaos - Phlegm - - - > 160 Punkte Soul Grinder of Chaos - Phlegm - - - > 160 Punkte Insgesamte Punkte Chaos Daemons : 1998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'd lose the Icons on the 'Crushers. They need to be summoned on Icons, not to carry them. If you're ok about not running with scared numbers, I'd probably combine those 'Letters into 3-4 squads, to give you more killing power and less available kill points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Eltor Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah, ok, I thought they were reliable enough to keep up the icon. So I would make 1 or 2 units of 16. Bloodletters are important to hold/compete objective. You need many units I think for not to lose easy easy points for mission objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 And you could easily move the Icons from the 'Crushers to those larger 'Letter squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Actually you generally want to give the unit of Crushers each upgrade you can (making a 4 man squad cost 200 points) since it lets you take 4 unsaved wounds before you need to remove a model...yeah for beardy wound allocation shenanigans. I just loaded up on max-spam hounds as an experiment (36 plus Karanak) but haven't actually tried them in a game yet. I expect them to eat mech marine lists that aren't LR spam since everything is AV 10 to the hounds. Same with Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korlic Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 This thread has helped me a ton. During my next tournament run starting after the Christmas holidays I plan on building a daemon army specificly for Khrone, but eventually becoming an overall army, all depending on how well I can do with my templars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 As I read through I think to myself "Ok I can comment on this and that" and by the end of reading everyone's post I have almost nothing to add, damn. :D 5 Size flesh hound packs with 1 Fury is a decent toss somewhere unit and go after a vehicle out of nowhere thing, or contest an objective after hiding half the game sort of unit. I use flesh hounds a fair bit in fact, since I got tired of bolters mowing down my bloodletters these days I try to lock the enemy into combat before getting them close. Somewhat a slaanesh-ish tactic with fiends/seekers. Start out of 24" range and in bulk on one side and I just roll on in and take control. Prince versus Grinder, I'd say the grinder has more potential in some armies. But the grinder is just 10+ points depending on what you put on him compared to a defiler, it's superior in many ways and can rely on icons to place close by the enemy. It has issues with meltaguns but that means less firing at your thirsters. I agree with larger units on the troops, though I'm also an advocate of off-balancing the units in either side to try and get more then 50%~or so points onto the table at once. Like 4 units of 15-20 and the other half of the force being low cost stuff. Though if you run a lot of big things like grinders, thirsters and favored squads of bloodletters. I cant add anything else really, these guys beat me to everything else. Punks! (j/k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 If you want a "fluffy" :snicker: mono Khorne list: 2xBthirster 2x8 Crushers 4x8 Letters 8 units, 8 in those that can. Prepare to get thrown out of your LGS if you get all 16 crushers and 2 thirsters in preferred and on the table w/out incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Well, double 'Thirsters is a given. 'Crushers are really durable, so if you've got the cash for the models or the conversion skills to pull 'em off, I'd highly recommend them. Not too many, though. The Fatecrusher Tournie build was good, until it started running across Walkers. 3 units of 4 would be as high as I'd go. 'Letters are just much more weedy 'Crushers, so they'll die like heck to bolter fire, but they're scoring. Note that when playing mono-Khorne in an objective-based list, you're going to want to go for objectives in your enemy's deployment zone, not yours, because a 'Letter camping out is a 'Letter not slicing, and a 'Letter not slicing is just target practice. Other than that, take a lot of them. You'll need the bodies. Flesh Hounds are a recent fave of mine. With enough attacks to put the hurt on MEQ or hordes, they can tie up and maul a unit for a turn or so while the 'Letters come in to slice the remainder to pieces. Not as killy as the rest of the Khornate ensemble, but still a solid unit. Daemon Princes vs. Soulgrinders? Depends, really. I think the Khornate upgrades are rather meh, So if I were to take one it'd be cheap and killy, probably looking like Hide, Might, Mark, and Blessing, which comes to somewhere around 150 points, not too shabby. Still, a mono-Khorne build is the one god build in which I think Soulgrinders stand the best chance of being useful. In Slaanesh, the Pavaning, HnR'ing Prince is so mobile it doesn't need the shootiness of the Soulgrinder to do well. In Tzeentch, Princes are more durable and with a decent anti-tank weapon, so they're pretty good. And don't get me started on Nurgle princes. Skarbrand is also decent in a Khornate build, because provided you get the charge (which you should, with the Flesh Hound/'Letter combo), Furious Charge means you're I5, a good step above the standard unit. And as we know, going first when using Skarbrand is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Flesh Hounds are a recent fave of mine. With enough attacks to put the hurt on MEQ or hordes, they can tie up and maul a unit for a turn or so while the 'Letters come in to slice the remainder to pieces. Not as killy as the rest of the Khornate ensemble, but still a solid unit. An excellent strategy and you can take large enough units to multi-charge and tie up a whole gunline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 This thread is definately helpful, ill keep it bookmarked for when i need some pointers. thanks again guys. Gc08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph03nIXx Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Hi - first time in the Daemon Forum, but I am thinking about building up a Daemon Army now after my Blood Angels and Orks. It would go right into the Khornate direction that is the main focus of this thread - the models are just too cool not too - and so far everything here has been really helpful. Since I don't have too much money lying around - even with christmas approaching, there are a few videogames I definitly want to get -, I was wondering what would be a decent build for around 750 - 1000 points. I was thinking on getting a few 'Letters, 'Crushers and a Soulgrinder, but I am not sure about that and additionally not sure what HQ to take for that points... still Bloodthirster? Help and advise would be much appreciated.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Bloodthirster is a good start with a batch of bloodletters. Then work on a grinder, then as you bust beyond 750-1000 add some bloodcrushers. By that point you have what you need. The HQ+Troops, the tactical Heavy Support and then the overwhelming melee that is the elite. At least if those are your options, thats how I would go about buying them in that order. www.thewarstore.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph03nIXx Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Bloodthirster seems rather heavy pointwise for the lower point ranges... should I get another HQ for <=1000? Something like a Herald of Khorne... or does the BT pull his weight on 750 to 1000, being a MC and all... General Question: Are all modells in the codex out to buy or are there some that you have to build yourself - like for example wazza gutzmek of the orks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Thirster might be a lot of points, but a low points games he totally dominates, b/c hardly anybody will have units that can face up to him. Same reason Land Raiders are silly at <1000 points. And the fact that you can do that (unlike in WFB where you can't take the uber units until higher points) is why low points 40k is borked, and not really the same game as real lists at 1750+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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