the jeske Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 As a World Eaters player, I was not really thrilled about the 3.5 Codex that basically represented World Eater armies by taking 80% of the choices away. well m8 its not our foult that the last time WE were not zerker only in RT times when they had havocks [and that was retconed in 2ed] . WE are a force like that only zerkers and thats all[just like 1ksons are empty armors led by sorcs and thats all] . Remember the warrior pride thing is a WFB/RT thing and since 2ed zerkers are lobotomised and midless killing machine [and yes I know it doesnt make sense , but thats how it is]. I can also understand that a WE player could get a bit pissed that a BL demon bomb was better [same demons , same DP ,but BL had minimax and oblits] or that the BL khorn was a top tier lists along with IW , while WE were a tier 2 list . the truth is in 5th ed with the new dex you did not get more options to play a WE army . No , you just started to play BL and thats all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 In 3.5 the Codex simply told you that you could only use 20% of the full "BL" list. In 4th you have to limit yourself. And I don't see a big difference between puting a Berserker on a bike or in Terminator armoru or giving him a flame thrower. My biggest complain that has not been adressed since 3rd Edition is that of all units in the game, Berserkers cannot get a few special close combat weapons in their squad. Even though that mechanic had been introduced way back in 3rd with SW and has since been used for different units like BT, Deathwatch or Veterans. At least now a Berserker is better in combat than any other given Marine with 2 basic attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 In 3.5 the Codex simply told you that you could only use 20% of the full "BL" list. In 4th you have to limit yourself. It didn't forbid anyone to use the vanilla list if they wanted to. And that "20%" WE list contained more Khorne specific things than the current Codex as a whole has, regardless of how one limits himself with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 What is your problem Legatus? Your adding nothing but tension to the topic, and constantly taking it off topic, are you a GW employee whose trying to get this topic closed, or do you have your own reasons for carrying on when I have asked 3 times that people stop taking this off topic. If you are not with this then you have nothing to say, and going by your posts, you are not with this. Everyone one else has demonstrated that they do wish to see change and most are willing to do something about it. Please do not post here if you do not wish to take part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Legatus' points are valid though, if a bit misplaced with regards to the OP (but then many other replies in this topic are and his is a reply to those). Everyone please, let's go back to the topic at hand: As an ex Chaos player, and a sometimes participant to this forum, I was wondering how many Chaos players have written to GW to complain as what the responses were. Also if the majority are up for it, how about a mass letter campaign to not only try and get them to fix it asap, but also to bring it back to something that is fun to play and fits years of beloved fluff? Now I am not an expert letter writer, so if anyone has an idea of a well formulated letter that get the point across with out being hostile, then please write it up so that we can all use it. After all if enough people say the samething they will get tired of hearing it. If no one manages this, I will try and have something up by the end of the month and those that wish to be envolved I would ask that if you send a letter that you give the response, if any. Well who is up for this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Sorry Legatus ,Brother Nihm that my last post may have been a bit OTT as I got irritated. This is something I hope to make work no matter the out come, and it is difficult making sure that everyone knows what is going on and answering questions when there is a massive arguement in the middle of the page. It also may have put some people off the idea, as well as been a distraction. Are any of the mods thinking of taking part? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 My biggest complain that has not been adressed since 3rd Edition is that of all units in the game, Berserkers cannot get a few special close combat weapons in their squad. Even though that mechanic had been introduced way back in 3rd with SW and has since been used for different units like BT, Deathwatch or Veterans. sw have been designed to be less a hth army then they were in 2ed [and still ended up as kings of rhino rush] . WE have no one who actually likes them in the DT , at least I cant remember people caring about WE like H-man died for IW. So yeah they do end up with sub standard tier 2 list[what I more or less said before] . and yes they did have special weapons sm versions of choppas that were a huge pain to any meq player out there . ask Wing players what they thoughts are on old choppas and khorn chain axs. :edit: BT do not have extra power/special weapons per squad . in fact they are the only ones runing around with a 1A powerfist[no sgts]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Sorry, I wanted to stay away, but I could not resist to answer to Refuse's longer post, so got dragged back in. I am going to let you do your thing now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2043832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Ok, The Letter is up. No sending before the following dates Outside the EU 16/07 Rest of Europe 21/07 UK 28/07 This should mean that all letter arrive near the same time. In the interim, if there are any issues regarding the letter, please comment. Games Workshop LtdWillow Road Nottingham Great Britain NG7 2WS Dear Mr J Jonson, I am writing to you to bring to your attention the views of myself and other players with regards the feelings towards the current Codex Chaos Space Marines. I have been playing Warhammer 40'000 for .... years, and in that time I have really enjoyed playing or playing against the Codex Chaos Space Marines and I have enjoyed this experience. It has been a competitive and fun army to play with or against and as a whole, they have fit the back story wonderfully and is a great "nemesis" for most races within the game. However, It is with regret then that after some some time playing with or against this the 4th Edition of Codex Chaos Space Marines, that I feel Games Workshop Ltd has produced a product of such limited playability and sub-par options and rules. I have know people that have left the game altogether from something that was obviously ill thought out, or where the developer had little or no experience of playing Codex Chaos Space Marines and the wealth of background and playability of previous editions, that the 4th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines missed out on, disregarded to continue or failed to convey in the options or rules. If the unfortunate trend that 4th Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines is replicated in the 5th Edition, It will be that Games Workshop will be unable to continue to sell its merchandise to many of its grass root players of Codex Chaos Space Marines. I feel that as the backbone of the Imperial struggle in the galaxy IS it's greatest foe from a civil war, highlighted all the more by the popularity of the Horus Heresy books from your Black Library. I feel that more needs to be done to promote this concept to new and old players when gaming and following the backstory in a more successful format than the current Codex. Also, with each expansion pack, the Imperial armies in particular seem to be given new models (new dreadnaughts, drop pods etc) where Chaos seems to be staying stagnant after 10,000 years. Surely it would be in Games Workshop's better intrests to look after more races within these new situations rather than just the one. I have been impressed in the past with other Codex, particularly the one circa 2002, either as users of this codex or as combatants against it. It encompassed each of the original legions turned traitor and gave fantastic, level rules for several types of competitive army builds, where sadly the current one only lends itself to only a couple. We recognise that Games Workshop has done fantastic work, and the range of models for any race is both wonderful to paint and to play the games with, but with these rules being updated, it would also lend to updating some models that have stayed the same for over 10 years. Many of us would appreciate if Games Workshop Ltd, could provide a way in the interim of allowing those who have brought and made the past advertised Chaos Space Marine Chaos Legions, some version of rules. Be that in the way of a PDF supplement, White Dwarf article or Index Astartes, is not that matters, but that the Chaos Space Marine Chaos Legions are usable. Yours respectfully, .................................................... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2045720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 A few typos but otherwise looks good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2045753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TostitoBandito Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Sweet, I'll get mine all ready to mail. Good job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2046080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Looks good mate Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2046143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 So say we all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2046444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 let's hope this works :tu: *fingers crossed* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2046566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangomegadeath Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 As a collector of 1ksons who is (slowly) getting back into the hobby I am more than happy to send this. To keep it short, I was dismayed when I recieved the new 'dex and found out how bland the list was. Hopefully this will get something changed - I may go back into hibernation otherwise! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2046625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 So all is good then. No questions? Just a few more days to go, dont forget to let say when you have sent it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2049169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spreader Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Are we going to snail mail that in? Oh boy...let me find a printer :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Just to wade in, I have mixed feelings about the current Chaos Codex. I can totally understand that people who have lovingly and carefully put together a Legion/god specific army (e.g. Emp's Children, Death Guard) are - very rightly - annoyed that they can't take god specific daemons, greater daemons, and much of the wargear is gone. This is a real shame, as Chaos armies should be varied, and the current Codex feels too 'vanilla' The loss of veteran traits is another mistake. On the one hand, if you're taking a newly turned-renegade Marine force, they're not going to have the range of skills that the original traitor legions are going to have. But, again, it just makes everything feel 'Vanilla'. However, inspite its many flaws, I feel grateful to the current Chaos Codex as it has enabled me to make a Chaos Marine army according to background that I have developed for it - they are alligned with an 'unalligned' daemon, if you will, rather than to anyone of the four gods - having a 'generic' lesser daemon and greater daemon available to Chaos players has made this possible for me. However, I am just one player out of thousands of Chaos Marine players, and I would agree that GW should address their need to be able to field Bloodletters/Daemonettes/etc as the daemons they are meant to be, not just generic deamons. I don't know if GW will release a new Chaos Codex in a hurry, but in order to satisfy the complaints and justified anger of the Chaos players, they should at the very least release the Legion specific codices/codex to enable players to field the army they originally collected! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 However, inspite its many flaws, I feel grateful to the current Chaos Codex as it has enabled me to make a Chaos Marine army according to background that I have developed for it - they are alligned with an 'unalligned' daemon, if you will, rather than to anyone of the four gods - having a 'generic' lesser daemon and greater daemon available to Chaos players has made this possible for me. ok how is that special , you could do the same thing under the 3.5 dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Last I checked, 3.5 didn't have any unaligned Demons, and you could make your armies in 3.5 geared towards your specifics, even better to renegades. Hell you could take models completely unmarked and unaligned for merc/pirates. Unless it's assumed everyone is not marked, I assumed everyone in Chaos marined 4.0 is Undivided. Scratch that, I miss Furies D: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I'll keep my fingers crossed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 I may have about another 30 people on board. Yep this is to go snail mail, but not to get there before the end of the month! Thats why I put those dates in, I just hope Royal Mail have there timing right. Remember to comment here when your copy is sent! Best of luck peoples, mutants and daemons of all sizes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 How much would postage cost from East coast US to G.B.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 My copy begins the trip tomarrow Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 How much would postage cost from East coast US to G.B.? Roughly 84 cents Postage from the east coast to the UK search Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/5/#findComment-2050926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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