Terrahawk Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 As a fellow victim of the now-abandoned streamlining policy I wish you guys good luck! It's a good thing you are voicing your disappointment. Even if it doesn't manage to get GW to release a new Codex soon it will at least prevent them from making the same mistakes again (right? ;)). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 However, inspite its many flaws, I feel grateful to the current Chaos Codex as it has enabled me to make a Chaos Marine army according to background that I have developed for it - they are alligned with an 'unalligned' daemon, if you will, rather than to anyone of the four gods - having a 'generic' lesser daemon and greater daemon available to Chaos players has made this possible for me. ok how is that special , you could do the same thing under the 3.5 dex. Err, eh? :huh: There were no generic daemons in Codex 3.5... So how could I have had an army lead by an unaligned daemon from that Codex? Last I checked, 3.5 didn't have any unaligned Demons, and you could make your armies in 3.5 geared towards your specifics, even better to renegades. Hell you could take models completely unmarked and unaligned for merc/pirates. This is absolutely correct - in every other respect, you could make any renengade warband from the previous codex. Ultimately, the biggest problem with the current Codex is that is feels more like 'Codex: Non-Imperial Space Marines'; it doesn't truly feel like Codex: CHAOS Space Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 There were no generic daemons in Codex 3.5... read it again . look for furies. So how could I have had an army lead by an unaligned daemon from that Codex? you didnt have to buy an icon to make a lord a demon prince. Sure he was weaker then a let say Syren DP or a Glaive DP . but its the same now . a undivided DP is weaker then a nurgle or slanesh one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 There were no generic daemons in Codex 3.5... read it again . look for furies. Yes, I'm sorry, you're right - I forgot them. But they aren't the sort of daemons I mean - a generic, 'lesser' daemon that could just be any nasty, malevolent being from the warp, that isn't specifically a servant of Khorne, Slaanesh, etc. So how could I have had an army lead by an unaligned daemon from that Codex? you didnt have to buy an icon to make a lord a demon prince. Sure he was weaker then a let say Syren DP or a Glaive DP . but its the same now . a undivided DP is weaker then a nurgle or slanesh one. Well, I can't remember how the 3.5 stats for a Daemon Prince compare to the current DP - but a DP isn't quite a GD, and it's significant that my army is lead by a GD that isn't aligned to any god... Ultimately, all this is nit picking as these issues are a matter of personal taste, and it doesn't detract from the consensus that there's huge problems with the current Chaos Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 As a fellow victim of the now-abandoned streamlining policy I wish you guys good luck! It's a good thing you are voicing your disappointment. Even if it doesn't manage to get GW to release a new Codex soon it will at least prevent them from making the same mistakes again (right? ^_^ ). You could always edit our letter and use it for the DA, I dont think anyone here would mind. No one deserves those horrid streamlined things, they take the fun from the game and leave the Codex afflicted feeling "lifeless". You could of course join in with us here ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrelKing Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You could of course join in with us here ;) And lose your eternal soul to Chaos!!!!!!! MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA!! Um... I mean, Welcome to the ranks of Heretics. :P (although it's debatable if you were there already or not!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 You could of course join in with us here ;) And lose your eternal soul to Chaos!!!!!!! MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA!! Um... I mean, Welcome to the ranks of Heretics. :P (although it's debatable if you were there already or not!) I suppose thats the thing with the DA, whose a Fallen and whose a Loyalist? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You could of course join in with us here ;) And lose your eternal soul to Chaos!!!!!!! MWAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA!! Um... I mean, Welcome to the ranks of Heretics. :rolleyes: (although it's debatable if you were there already or not!) I suppose thats the thing with the DA, whose a Fallen and whose a Loyalist? ;) Heheh, hilarious! :) You have been chatting with the Voice of the Emperor again right? Uhm, could you point us to his direction? We need to "talk" with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 One thing this thread has done is motivate me to write GW.... I probably won't use the form letter though because I think: 1- after a few of them, they'll simply toss the new ones arriving. 2- There are concerns I have that go beyond getting special rules to differentiate the chapters and legions. I think the 'randomness' that is supposed to represent chaos (as an example, one of many) is complete rubbish. I mean a dreadnaught that may or may not decide to move one turn? Or may declare he's going to shoot your own guys...? No one uses these units in any environment other than pure fun... not even in the White Dwarf issues do they use that unit. Same goes for stuff like possessed. If you're going to leave a unit with a random element that could render it nearly useless, then make it 'points effective' no matter the outcome. One thing that is not legion specific that I truly miss is the customization. Sure it could cost you an arm and a leg, but the cool thing was if you wanted to point up a Chaos Lord that at one time may have walked through the breach of Terra's Eternity Gate, thousands of years ago, then you could. What a cool ability that was. Why we lost customization on every level, including more random crap is beyond me. But I do think it's significant/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladon Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Nice, sending a chain letter to GW to get a new chaos codex... its not going to work... I may not be a fan of the current dex either nor a fan of the 3.5 dex either.... but everyone sending the same letter... isn't going to change anything... as to legion rules.... give me the IA rules but updated to 5th edition and I'll be happy.... until then or the 6th edition codex comes out.... loyalist marines for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Nice, sending a chain letter to GW to get a new chaos codex... its not going to work... I may not be a fan of the current dex either nor a fan of the 3.5 dex either.... but everyone sending the same letter... isn't going to change anything... as to legion rules.... give me the IA rules but updated to 5th edition and I'll be happy.... until then or the 6th edition codex comes out.... loyalist marines for me. You have no way of knowing whether or no it will work in till it is tried, and it is better than just moaning in various threads about how lacking the codex is. Up dated IA rules, 3.5ed rules, just any rules would be nice. I may just not give away the last elements of my LatD if they just print something that allows some soul back to playing Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 am more thinking this way , if they get spamed enough they will know to not do it for some time . thats all . if this means that codex WH/DH is going to be good and interesting . Good ,am a realist we wont see a chaos dex for the next 2/3 years , but if this petition means they wont ;) up again like they did with the 4th ed chaos dex [what I think they kind of a noticed , codex loyalists has more options and more builds then chaos ]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Why we lost customization on every level, including more random crap is beyond me. Have you ever played Deus Ex? Have you then tried to play Deus Ex: Invisible War? Notice how the latter seems so much more bland. The reason is "consolization". While the first game was made specifically for the PC, the second had to satisfy the XBOX consumers. In essence, they changed their target audience. Simpler interface, more managable calculations, less thinking, more playing. That's essentially what it is. GW states that they focus on the niche market in their annual reports, but their products say different things. The packaging now include special effects, and a lot of their new products are easier to pick up. Not that it is a bad thing, it is just a shift in marketing strategy. In the end, by becoming more mainstream, they hope to sell more goods. Back to the Deus Ex analogy, Invisible War is not a terrible game if you think of it as a standalone product. It is just really difficult to follow something as good as Deus Ex. Same goes for the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Not to sound like an *** again, but arn't we the target audience, not retarded 12 year olds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Not to sound like an *** again, but arn't we the target audience, not retarded 12 year olds? Not according to the 4th edition codex. It's not about 12 year olds I think. It is more about the casual gaming crowd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Casual? I thought Hobbying was supposed to be something above casual, taking time to organize, assemble, and grow into, not something you piss out in 5 minutes and play for a little, then get rid of at your next convenience, or play with some friend much much later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irwin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 As I have pointed out in the other Codex bashing thread, all these complaints about how terrible the new Codex is seem to come from a narrow perspective that only knows the previous and current Chaos Codex and is completely disregarding the overall 40K trend all the latest Codices have been following over the past few years to remove sub list options and instead incorporate the potential for different lists into one single army list, as well as disregarding the Chaos Codices prior to 3.5. Saying that the 3rd Edition Codex Chaos was better seems to come from nostalgic memories more than anything else, as that list pales in comparison to the options in the 4th Edition Codex, as well as having vastly inferior units. When Codex Eldar had been redone, they lost the different Craftworld lists. But some choices have been changed (Jetbikes, Wraithguard) and some new choices have been added (Pathfinders, Seer Council), so now it is possible to buils all the Craftworld armies with the basic Eldar list. Space Marines have lost the Chapter Trait system. Instead, now the list can slightly be changed depending on the Character leading the force. (This relies heavily in the uise of special characters and has been a terrible choice in my opinion.) Imperial Guard has lost the Doctrine System, but now it is possible to use mechanised units, or veterans with carapace armoru or camo cloaks even in the basic list. Chaos has lost the "give them a mark to make them something else" system as well as the "pump the character full of gear" options. Instead, now you can buy cult units that are very effective by default, and do not have to be made effective by equipping them. Putting 100+ points of stuff on your lord to make him a deamon prince was fun, but it was also broken, and I don't mind that they changed that. There are three complaints I could understand: One is that the background of the Codex is not focused on the classic Legions enough. GW has tried a new direction with this Codex, and I personally do not care for renegade Chapters that much. But then I have 4 editions worth of Codices and Index Astartes articles to fall back on, so I can happily wait a few years for a possible 5th or 6th Edition Codex Chaos. The second complain I can understand is the lack of cult daemons. I think that is a shame and I would have liked to see cult daemons in the Codex, but I can sort of understad GW's decision to have the "Codex Chaos Space Marines" be more about Chaos Space Marines. The generic daemons have performed quite well for my Night Lords though. The third complaint I can understand is that the Icon effect is lost once the Icon Bearer is killed. It is frustrating when your unit loses the bonus because the Icon Bearer is killed, and gives a certain fragile feeling. But on the other hand, that's Chaos for you, and while the gods can smile on you at one moment, they might punish you the next. Apart from those three points I quite like the Codex. I like the fact that even the basic Chaos Marine is armed to the teeth and very strong in combat. Having a boltgun and still 2 base attacks is simply awesome, nothing less. I like that Berserkers are now actually superior in combat, and not just lunatics with +1 attack and big axes. I like that plague Marines are hard as nails. The Codex does not need to be "fixed". But perhaps the next FaQ could instate a 0-1 limitation for Daemon Princes. I would not mind that. I wholeheartedly agree. Those farts up at Games Workshop HQ are not going to listen to a handful of letters; they will not re-release the Codex, or even release an errata changing how the rules work. The games developers are slaving away over Space Hulk (September!), Space Wolves (Yeah baby! October!!), and Dark Space Elves (Q1 or Q2 next year), they will never find enough time to correct the ‘mistakes’ in the current C:CSM. Never. Just live with it and wait until the 5th or 6th Edition Codex is published, you should be thankful that you have a working Codex in the first place. Just look at the Inquisition Codices, I myself collect pure Grey Knights (as well as Death Guard and Dark Angels), and they will never see a new Codex. Suck it up and continue with this wonderful hobby of ours without crying every time a new Codex is released. Now I’m going to go play some Halo, I advise you do the same and stop fuming about something you have no control over... Cheers ;) Steve Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 No, we won't live with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You do realize that that makes no sense. A company can't just give it's consumers an inferior product and then ignores complaints from it's main source of income. They're changing their target audience and alienating their old loyal customers. And I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge to everyone not working at GW that it's cheaper to keep a current customer than to attract a new one. It's the old customers that will continue to buy new models, a new customer will buy some models but a lot will quickly lose interest and then leave especially considering the high cost and niche market this is. Unless they make extremely cheaper models, the hobby can never achieve mainstream. They should leave mainstream to video games and books, maybe even Lord of the rings. But warhammer will probablynever become mainstreamm enough to make up for the loss of veteran players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 As I have pointed out in the other Codex bashing thread, all these complaints about how terrible the new Codex is seem to come from a narrow perspective that only knows the previous and current Chaos Codex and is completely disregarding the overall 40K trend all the latest Codices have been following over the past few years to remove sub list options and instead incorporate the potential for different lists into one single army list, as well as disregarding the Chaos Codices prior to 3.5. Saying that the 3rd Edition Codex Chaos was better seems to come from nostalgic memories more than anything else, as that list pales in comparison to the options in the 4th Edition Codex, as well as having vastly inferior units. When Codex Eldar had been redone, they lost the different Craftworld lists. But some choices have been changed (Jetbikes, Wraithguard) and some new choices have been added (Pathfinders, Seer Council), so now it is possible to buils all the Craftworld armies with the basic Eldar list. Space Marines have lost the Chapter Trait system. Instead, now the list can slightly be changed depending on the Character leading the force. (This relies heavily in the uise of special characters and has been a terrible choice in my opinion.) Imperial Guard has lost the Doctrine System, but now it is possible to use mechanised units, or veterans with carapace armoru or camo cloaks even in the basic list. Chaos has lost the "give them a mark to make them something else" system as well as the "pump the character full of gear" options. Instead, now you can buy cult units that are very effective by default, and do not have to be made effective by equipping them. Putting 100+ points of stuff on your lord to make him a deamon prince was fun, but it was also broken, and I don't mind that they changed that. There are three complaints I could understand: One is that the background of the Codex is not focused on the classic Legions enough. GW has tried a new direction with this Codex, and I personally do not care for renegade Chapters that much. But then I have 4 editions worth of Codices and Index Astartes articles to fall back on, so I can happily wait a few years for a possible 5th or 6th Edition Codex Chaos. The second complain I can understand is the lack of cult daemons. I think that is a shame and I would have liked to see cult daemons in the Codex, but I can sort of understad GW's decision to have the "Codex Chaos Space Marines" be more about Chaos Space Marines. The generic daemons have performed quite well for my Night Lords though. The third complaint I can understand is that the Icon effect is lost once the Icon Bearer is killed. It is frustrating when your unit loses the bonus because the Icon Bearer is killed, and gives a certain fragile feeling. But on the other hand, that's Chaos for you, and while the gods can smile on you at one moment, they might punish you the next. Apart from those three points I quite like the Codex. I like the fact that even the basic Chaos Marine is armed to the teeth and very strong in combat. Having a boltgun and still 2 base attacks is simply awesome, nothing less. I like that Berserkers are now actually superior in combat, and not just lunatics with +1 attack and big axes. I like that plague Marines are hard as nails. The Codex does not need to be "fixed". But perhaps the next FaQ could instate a 0-1 limitation for Daemon Princes. I would not mind that. I wholeheartedly agree. Those farts up at Games Workshop HQ are not going to listen to a handful of letters; they will not re-release the Codex, or even release an errata changing how the rules work. The games developers are slaving away over Space Hulk (September!), Space Wolves (Yeah baby! October!!), and Dark Space Elves (Q1 or Q2 next year), they will never find enough time to correct the ‘mistakes’ in the current C:CSM. Never. Just live with it and wait until the 5th or 6th Edition Codex is published, you should be thankful that you have a working Codex in the first place. Just look at the Inquisition Codices, I myself collect pure Grey Knights (as well as Death Guard and Dark Angels), and they will never see a new Codex. Suck it up and continue with this wonderful hobby of ours without crying every time a new Codex is released. Now I’m going to go play some Halo, I advise you do the same and stop fuming about something you have no control over... Cheers :) Steve Right, on /tg/ we have a coined term for people like this, we call them GW employees. I won't go over the edge and turn the topic into a battleground, but that kind of opinion is one who would gladly take it ** *** *** from a company with the product. How regularly do you play CSM may I ask, this coming from a new person who, wants to conserve some cash, and not get into 5 different armies to fall back on, or Loyalist Space Marines who never have to worry about a codex killing misshap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 As I have pointed out in the other Codex bashing thread, all these complaints about how terrible the new Codex is seem to come from a narrow perspective that only knows the previous and current Chaos Codex and is completely disregarding the overall 40K trend all the latest Codices have been following over the past few years to remove sub list options and instead incorporate the potential for different lists into one single army list, as well as disregarding the Chaos Codices prior to 3.5. Saying that the 3rd Edition Codex Chaos was better seems to come from nostalgic memories more than anything else, as that list pales in comparison to the options in the 4th Edition Codex, as well as having vastly inferior units. When Codex Eldar had been redone, they lost the different Craftworld lists. But some choices have been changed (Jetbikes, Wraithguard) and some new choices have been added (Pathfinders, Seer Council), so now it is possible to buils all the Craftworld armies with the basic Eldar list. Space Marines have lost the Chapter Trait system. Instead, now the list can slightly be changed depending on the Character leading the force. (This relies heavily in the uise of special characters and has been a terrible choice in my opinion.) Imperial Guard has lost the Doctrine System, but now it is possible to use mechanised units, or veterans with carapace armoru or camo cloaks even in the basic list. Chaos has lost the "give them a mark to make them something else" system as well as the "pump the character full of gear" options. Instead, now you can buy cult units that are very effective by default, and do not have to be made effective by equipping them. Putting 100+ points of stuff on your lord to make him a deamon prince was fun, but it was also broken, and I don't mind that they changed that. There are three complaints I could understand: One is that the background of the Codex is not focused on the classic Legions enough. GW has tried a new direction with this Codex, and I personally do not care for renegade Chapters that much. But then I have 4 editions worth of Codices and Index Astartes articles to fall back on, so I can happily wait a few years for a possible 5th or 6th Edition Codex Chaos. The second complain I can understand is the lack of cult daemons. I think that is a shame and I would have liked to see cult daemons in the Codex, but I can sort of understad GW's decision to have the "Codex Chaos Space Marines" be more about Chaos Space Marines. The generic daemons have performed quite well for my Night Lords though. The third complaint I can understand is that the Icon effect is lost once the Icon Bearer is killed. It is frustrating when your unit loses the bonus because the Icon Bearer is killed, and gives a certain fragile feeling. But on the other hand, that's Chaos for you, and while the gods can smile on you at one moment, they might punish you the next. Apart from those three points I quite like the Codex. I like the fact that even the basic Chaos Marine is armed to the teeth and very strong in combat. Having a boltgun and still 2 base attacks is simply awesome, nothing less. I like that Berserkers are now actually superior in combat, and not just lunatics with +1 attack and big axes. I like that plague Marines are hard as nails. The Codex does not need to be "fixed". But perhaps the next FaQ could instate a 0-1 limitation for Daemon Princes. I would not mind that. I wholeheartedly agree. Those farts up at Games Workshop HQ are not going to listen to a handful of letters; they will not re-release the Codex, or even release an errata changing how the rules work. The games developers are slaving away over Space Hulk (September!), Space Wolves (Yeah baby! October!!), and Dark Space Elves (Q1 or Q2 next year), they will never find enough time to correct the ‘mistakes’ in the current C:CSM. Never. Just live with it and wait until the 5th or 6th Edition Codex is published, you should be thankful that you have a working Codex in the first place. Just look at the Inquisition Codices, I myself collect pure Grey Knights (as well as Death Guard and Dark Angels), and they will never see a new Codex. Suck it up and continue with this wonderful hobby of ours without crying every time a new Codex is released. Now I’m going to go play some Halo, I advise you do the same and stop fuming about something you have no control over... Cheers ;) Steve Right, on /tg/ we have a coined term for people like this, we call them GW employees. I won't go over the edge and turn the topic into a battleground, but that kind of opinion is one who would gladly take it ** *** *** from a company with the product. How regularly do you play CSM may I ask, this coming from a new person who, wants to conserve some cash, and not get into 5 different armies to fall back on, or Loyalist Space Marines who never have to worry about a codex killing misshap. No, it wont turn in to a battle ground and it looks like Steve has jumped in without reading though the rest of the topic. Next person that tries to derail this I swear I will report to a mod. Incinerator: Did you get your letter off ok? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 No, my friend's wife just went into labour today, so the entire week I've been held up helping him and her out. Sorry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 No worries, just get one off when you can. I am trying to keep the numbers up. Almost forgot. Congrats to your friend and his misses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2051941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 You do realize that that makes no sense. A company can't just give it's consumers an inferior product and then ignores complaints from it's main source of income. They're changing their target audience and alienating their old loyal customers. And I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge to everyone not working at GW that it's cheaper to keep a current customer than to attract a new one. It's the old customers that will continue to buy new models, a new customer will buy some models but a lot will quickly lose interest and then leave especially considering the high cost and niche market this is. Unless they make extremely cheaper models, the hobby can never achieve mainstream. They should leave mainstream to video games and books, maybe even Lord of the rings. But warhammer will probably never become mainstreamm enough to make up for the loss of veteran players. Maybe Steve is right. Maybe mailing the company directly wasn't the 'best' route. And companies DO have to help unhappy customers if they want to survive. GW is a stock company. Go for the throat, the stock. First, letters going directly to Tom H.F. Kirby are going to do more than sending to anyone else, that would be the chairman of the board and 7% holder of the stock. It would be easier for someone in England to get the information to send him letters if you can. Other important people. Mark N. Wells Chief Executive, Executive Director Kevin Rountree Chief Financial Officer, Director Rachel Tongue Company Secretary Chris J. Myatt Lead Independent Director, Senior Independent Non-Executive Director Nick J. Donaldson Independent Director GWs stock is in a rather vulnerable place at the moment. It was pitiful just a couple years back... of course the company had no earnings as well. Even now its earnings per share are laughable and its price per earnings are very high(implies it is over valued). Its a stock built up by continuous good news, good news concerning the video games being released. Enough letters, or enough people vouching that they are boycotting is all it takes. Not even enough to get a thing in white dwarf or a newspaper, no just enough that make a 'little blip' appear on Google Finance and Yahoo Finance next to the stock. Concerning a stock built up by good news concerning ventures into new things, even a small bit of bad news concerning the core business will get some attention. By my calculations, if the stock dropped just 1p Mr. Kirby would loose close to 2 million. I wonder how long it would take to get an errata then? OR.... Have this exact same discussion on the google finance page. The discussions on it right now are concerning how boring it is, nothing interrupts boring like pissed off customers. ^_^ Or I could be rambling about stocks due to sleep deprivation.... :lol: ...staying up studying for my securities licensing exam in the morning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2052297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Oh yeah, I once thought that I should buy a large portion of GW stocks to have a say in the running of their company, but I want to make money. :lol: On the other hand, it does not hurt to buy 1 share and show up at the stockholders' meeting to give them face to face feedback. There are several documentaries in the UK about changing the food industry. Basically, letters themselves won't work. You need to let them know that the consumers' wants. The whole move towards casual gaming market as opposed to niche gaming market is an misunderstanding of the wants and needs of the consumers IMO. In the end, the best thing a consumer could do is vote their money. EDIT: Not to be a spelling nazi, but it is "lose". EDIT 2: Casual? I thought Hobbying was supposed to be something above casual, taking time to organize, assemble, and grow into, not something you piss out in 5 minutes and play for a little, then get rid of at your next convenience, or play with some friend much much later. That's what the gaming industry started out to be, but look at the success of XBOX360 and Wii. Mainstreaming and consolizing games do sell in the end. I think GW is trying to emulate this with their products. I would also like to place a wager that in 2 or 3 years, if GW continues down this path, we may see pre-painted miniatures! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/172566-complaining-about-the-ccsm/page/6/#findComment-2052328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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