Devil Dog Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Daemons have always been an army that you can mix and match to your hearts content and still have a decently competitive list to me, but I have never seen or heard of how to make daemons cheesy, any suggestions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Personally, I find the checks & balances in the C:CD to be pretty solid (maybe even too solid at times). Yet, most players will claim that spamming a particular strong unit a cheesy/beardy/power gamer style of build. The Fate/Crusher list that merited some attention for winning the ‘Ard Boyz tourney last year had, IIRC, 26 total Blood Crushers + FW at 2,500 pts. So overloading a list with Crushers seems to fall clearly in that direction. Again, just my humble opinion but I believe there are many solid counters for this tactic that could leave you wanting. So it would be considered pretty nasty until your opponents figured it out. -OMG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2068728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 1750 points: 2 heralds of slaanesh on chariots with unholy might. very nasty (7 WS5, S4 rending attacks on the charge, + hit and run) 5 units of 5 plaguebearers (double up on those important objectives or use them as assault bait) 3 units of 6 fiends each (36 rending attacks on the charge at I5) 3 units of 12 Fleshhounds + 1 Karanak (36 attacks on the charge at I5 S5) I tried this list this weekend and anything not AV 14 all around just cries. (which is everything but raiders and 'liths) Of course any daemons list will have those problems. Pretty beardy I think, but it took me a game to get some tactics down. Try dropping the PB right on the enemy, lock them in combat then just bounce around with the 4 H&R units to kill whatever needs it each turn. You eat MEQ vehicles since they're all AV 10 rear, and you'll have so many models you can combo charge whole gunlines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2068901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Probably been done but I'm sure many people would find this cheesy: I call it- MC rampage! 2x Bloodthirsters, Unholy Might, Blessing of the Blood god 3 Flamers 3 Flamers 8 Plaguebearers 8 Plaguebearers 8 Plaguebearers 2xDemon Prince, Hide, Wings, Nurgle, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch Demon Prince, Tz, Hide, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch, Demonic Gaze 1750! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2069751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I like it, though I'd probably drop it to 2 PB squads and fit in a 3rd Flamer unit. Then use the leftover points to reinforce the PB's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2069822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think you'd have problems with objective missions if you only had two troops at 1750. I like the list as is, it motivates me to finish my other 3 daemon princes and bloodthirsters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2069890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 The only thing that might be worth changing- you might want 2 shooty princes instead of 2 nurgle princes. Those fast vehicles would be a royal pain if your overall strategy is to engage them in H2H with your MCs. In my (very limited) experience, you want to keep plaguebearers out of combat if you can. They are decent, but not that great. They are better at surviving assaults than winning them. One nice aspect of their survivability is if you throw them into a multi-assault, they are durable against people allocating attacks against them in an effort to win combats. Bummer that they don't have defensive grenades, that would have been nice- their close combat ability is mediocre at best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2069974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 If Codex: Imperial Guard is Codex: Wisconsin, then Codex: Chaos Daemons is Codex: American. Even their cheesiest aspects still are only cheesy by name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2071524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obeisance Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 1750 points: 2 heralds of slaanesh on chariots with unholy might. very nasty (7 WS5, S4 rending attacks on the charge, + hit and run) 5 units of 5 plaguebearers (double up on those important objectives or use them as assault bait) 3 units of 6 fiends each (36 rending attacks on the charge at I5) 3 units of 12 Fleshhounds + 1 Karanak (36 attacks on the charge at I5 S5) I tried this list this weekend and anything not AV 14 all around just cries. (which is everything but raiders and 'liths) Of course any daemons list will have those problems. Pretty beardy I think, but it took me a game to get some tactics down. Try dropping the PB right on the enemy, lock them in combat then just bounce around with the 4 H&R units to kill whatever needs it each turn. You eat MEQ vehicles since they're all AV 10 rear, and you'll have so many models you can combo charge whole gunlines. Someone reads Stelek's blog. :o ... In that spirt, I've ripped off the Daemon list I'm (re)building. 3x Herald of Tzeentch: Gaze, Bolt, Master of Sorcery, Chariot. 3x6 Fiends. 2x10 Bloodletters. 4x5 Plaguebearers. 3x Prince of Tzeentch: Bolt, Gaze. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2072005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Snips Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 The Fate/Crusher list that merited some attention for winning the ‘Ard Boyz tourney last year had, IIRC, 26 total Blood Crushers + FW at 2,500 pts. So overloading a list with Crushers seems to fall clearly in that direction. It was brutal, until people learned how to counter it and absolutely wrecked Demons this year at Ard Boyz. Throw every single range weapon at Fateweaver, than get bloodcrushers stuck in melee with walkers. Once all the monstrous creatures are dead, nothing but rending on a champion can even scratch armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2072048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 3-ish Flamers of Tzeentch or a soul grinder with pleghm + Pavane of Slaanesh (second wave for icons if preferred, more painful then chaos marines apparently). Too many termicrushers (bloodcrushers are roughly the same durability if not better then terminators). Using very large units for one half of the army and small min/max units for the other half of the units so that a large portion comes in on first wave if you roll 3+. Daemonzilla with 2 big bad daemons, 3 princes, a score of nurglings and bloodcrushers and then some nice scoring units for the second wave normally plaguebearers. All I can think of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2072333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Someone reads Stelek's blog. No doubt. Every time I roll somebody with one of his lists I tell people about his site to try and get the level of play in the area to increase. Most people are just too set in their ways/not interested in investing in new units to adapt to the 5th ed rules. The list is nice too, but kind of a pain to play, since moving the huge units of hounds is annoying and you have to keep track of a lot of dice...e.g. I multiassaulted a large necron warrior unit with two units of fiends and a chariot and rolled close to 70 dice to hit...slows the game down, but was funny to watch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2072925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Hmm, that is an interesting idea. Lots of "Pavane of Slaanesh" and then something like 3 units of 5 flamers. You could also take "breath of chaos" and maybe Pavane on your demon princes. BoC / flamers are strong enough to kill just about anything with enough breaths- except for heavy tanks, which would be your bane on this list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2078212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 except for heavy tanks, which would be your bane on this list. It's your bane in every daemon list, and really in most lists people play any for any army b/c hardly anybody brings enough melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2078448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I do have a particular 1850 pt list that people seem to cry cheese over. It hits pretty hard and I've actually tabled a couple people within 3 rounds, but I'm sure many of the power gamers would disapprove. In any case, here you go! HQ: Bloodthirster -Unholy Might Great Unclean One -Unholy Might -Breath of Chaos Elites: 4X Bloodcrushers Troops: 15 X Bloodletters -Instrument of Chaos 15 X Bloodletters 7 X Plaguebearers -Icon of Chaos 7 X Plaguebearers -Icon of Chaos Heavy Support: Daemon Prince -Mark of Nurgle -Noxious Touch -Breath of Chaos Soulgrinder -Tongue Daemon Prince -Mark of Nurgle -Noxious Touch -Breath of Chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2079201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 That's a pretty expensive GUO, and I still don't like tongue on the soulgrinder. Oh God, I have a problem, why can't I look at a list and not dissect it instantly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2079788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 How do you figure the GUO is too expensive? :) The Tongue Soul Grinder is an easy choice. I've got so many pieces that are great at sweeping infantry off of the board, that having a dedicated Anti-Tank choice works great. Really, if I wanted to, I could just give it both options. It would be expensive, but I could. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2080343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Over 165 is an expensive GUO for me. :P To be honest I'm not really a big fan of the big guy anyway, if it works for you don't let me stop you. As for tongue, I just don't like the 50/50 chance of hitting, let alone doing any damage, although admittedly chances are if you do hit you'll do something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2080379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I can understand, a lot of people either don't like to use Greater Daemons, or the GUO in particular. Yeah, the Tongue can be hit or miss, but I've had quite a bit of luck with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2080520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yeah, the GUO is so cool, but seems to lack much of anything in the way of cheese. Maybe he ate it all? For that price, I'd just take a Keeper and be done with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2080768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borinar Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Daemons have always been an army that you can mix and match to your hearts content and still have a decently competitive list to me, but I have never seen or heard of how to make daemons cheesy, any suggestions? I think cheese is in the eye of the point range. 500 Points GUO - Aura of Decay 2x3 Nurglings Daemon Prince Daemon Prince Daemon Prince Comes out to 498, aura is meh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2082423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Yeah, the GUO is so cool, but seems to lack much of anything in the way of cheese. Maybe he ate it all? For that price, I'd just take a Keeper and be done with it. True... I think I have trouble writing a cheese list, lol. I prefer fluff before power, so if I can get an army that has a great theme and great playability and power, then I guess I did good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2082565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 GUO - Aura of Decay2x3 Nurglings Daemon Prince Daemon Prince Daemon Prince you can't claim objectives with nurglings, despite them being troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2083221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borinar Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Khorne Herald in a Chariot with Unholy Might 3 Daemon Princes 8 Plaguebeaers 3 Nurglings Can also go Khorne Herald in a Chariot 3 Daemon Princes 5 Plaguebeaerss 3 Nurglings 2 Fiends of Slaanesh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2087186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thkingdom Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 All Slaanesh!! An All Slaanesh Army is pure cheese as I have discovered after playing two small point value games (Less than 1000pts) in both 40k & Fantasy. My opponent thought that all of my attacks and wounds were dumb. I was playing with 1 Daemon Princess 1 Chariot The Masque 6 Daemonettes 10 Daemonettes (I took all the upgrades I could so that I could have a max number of points around 800) The Daemonettes on the charge were sick, they had 3 attacks each base +1 for the charge so that was 40 attacks. We rolled Kill Points as the mission and we ended up a tie game 3 each. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/174920-daemonic-super-cheese/#findComment-2091047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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