dark_claw Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 i have read all the books so far and only 2 mention them, thats both dark angels novels. my question is where they actually around before the heresey or after because if librarians where there before then why where the thousand sons banned from looking into and using the warp when its all librarians do, any thoughts or comments to help me out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Zaku Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 The office of the Librarian was indeed available during the Heresy. However, shortly before the Heresy began, the Council of Nikea mandated that the office be removed, as the Emperor (and more vocal Primarchs such as Leman Russ) feared the Warp was too powerful for Astartes to attempt to master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_claw Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 so where all legions then told to stop? if so what happened to all the librarians that had been trained? where they killed? no where in any other books are they mentioned which is what i found odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 so where all legions then told to stop? if so what happened to all the librarians that had been trained? where they killed? no where in any other books are they mentioned which is what i found odd THey were to return to their fighting units and forbade from using the powers. kinda stupid really. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Garro Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 They are also mentioned in Battle for the Abyss(mal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The big difference is that Librarians are trained to use and improve upon a naturally occuring mutation, of a type that the Imperium approved (no big surprise there, he himself is a psyker). The key factor here is control. Random mutations are frowned upon, useful mutations (Navigators, psykers) are still seen as dangerous, but necessary if properly contained and controlled. Sorcery, on the other hand, is defined by arcane, occult studies. It focuses on bargains and interaction with inhuman powers, of the same sort that prey on Humanity and that were integral to the disaster that was the Long Night. It's no coincidence that the Emperor, who is intent on propagating a secular-only society devoid of superstition or veneration of religious figures (since both can be exploited by the powers of Chaos or even mere daemons) is opposed to sorcery. Was his solution (disbanding the various Libraria and ordering their members to not use their powers) that smart? At face value, no. But there's mounds of context* we lack behind virtually every single one of the Emperor's decisions--context that could very well explain his thought process. Perhaps this was only a temporary solution, meant to address the vehement protests of the other Primarchs until some sort of guarantee of accord could be reached with Magnus. Remember, even after the Primarch of the Thousand Sons busted the Imperial Palace's wards with his warning of Horus' fall, the Emperor merely wanted him captured... not killed. * Consider, for example, the events that led Angron to be angry at the Emperor. For years, at face value, the Emperor's decision to teleport Angron away and leave his men to die seemed callous and devoid of consideration for the Primarch's warrior ethos. Then came "After Desh'ea", though, and [spoiler FOLLOWS!!!] ... ... ... we find out that Angron was far more compromised by his cerebral implants than previously indicated, and that he actually attacked the Emperor and his entourage (killing a Custodian in the process) before being knocked unconscious by his father. No added details are provided, but one can assume that Angron's gladiators--many of whom also certainly had said implants--probably didn't react to this in a restrained manner. And we still don't have the full story, not even after this. There could be even more context than might explain why the Emperor acted as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The problem though, Phoebus, is that according to the Collected Visions, the Emperor did indeed ban all psyker use in the Legions, just telling them not to use their powers. It wasn't just sorcery that was banned. And as for the Angron thing, sure he attacked the Emperor, but thats after the Emperor already went against better judgement and refused to help Angrons slave army. If he'd done that, Angron would have supported the Emperor. As it was though, the Emperor chose to kidnap him instead, and you're acting surprised that Angron didn't like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 im in the next HH book, well i think i am. because i got asked for details for a competition for 2 places in the next HH book ^^. I don't like librarians except when they can shoot pies of any kinda that are low AP. How on earth do you think magnus tried to defend his homeworld? he only had lascannons to stop any invasion and he had portals all over his planet. so any sensible commander would of hit his fortress or what ever it was called first. and hit the portals around with overwhelming forces. any thoughts? thanks antique_nova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 The problem though, Phoebus, is that according to the Collected Visions, the Emperor did indeed ban all psyker use in the Legions, just telling them not to use their powers. It wasn't just sorcery that was banned. I know. :) Like I said, I think it was probably a temporary compromise solution until he could sort out his issues with Magnus. We have evidence that some of the Primarchs didn't like Librarians outright, and little evidence that Librarians were even wide-spread to begin with. The modern-day Ultramarines only have 24 Librarians (including their Chief) and 4 apprentices. If there were even fewer Librarians back then, we wouldn't even be talking about a sizeable number of individuals. And as for the Angron thing, sure he attacked the Emperor, but thats after the Emperor already went against better judgement and refused to help Angrons slave army. If he'd done that, Angron would have supported the Emperor. As it was though, the Emperor chose to kidnap him instead, and you're acting surprised that Angron didn't like it? I... don't remember that being the case. Angron specifically states that the Emperor and his Custodes arrived right as the High-Riders came for Angron and his band--and that he didn't even let the Emperor say anything before he attacked. It had nothing to do with the Emperor not wanting to help his troops. Angron wasn't even conscious when the Emperor spirited him away. Again, it seems the Emperor arrived at the last moment, and I would guess that after knocking Angron out the former gladiators weren't exactly looking for explanations, either. I honestly think that it was a tragic sequence of events. I don't believe it's anywhere near the callous abandonment of Angron's men without any thought toward the Primarch's concerns that we always thought it was. And, frankly, I doubt Angron was ever stable enough to realize that himself. He simply maintained a cerebral implant-fuelled rage and bitterness over the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.