Zen Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hi I am wanting to take my Slaanesh Daemon Legion list to the WPS Club Challenge next year. I am a very slow painter and so would like to get a list sorted well in advance. There is also the need to add a few more models to what I have already and christmas seems to be the best time to get them. Here is my list so far: Keeper of Secrets with Soporific Musk (have model) 220 3x 6x Fiends of Slaanesh (have 8 models so far) 540 2x 12x Daemonettes (have all the models) 336 Another unit of a smaller size of Daemonettes, say 9 or 10 (have all the models) That leaves about 264/278 points (looking for a 1500 point list). So what to add? 1) Masque - lots of Pavane but dies quickly (I have the model). 2) Herald on Slaanesh on Chariot - just another set of Fiends at higher cost really. 3) More Daemonettes - they are pretty rubbish unless you take loads of them and die very easily. I had it in mind to only really use them for objective sitting with a 3+ Gone to Ground cover save (I have 40 in total). 4) Seekers - better than Daemonettes, but still not that great unless in large numbers (I do have 10 of these, but 2 have banners). 4) Daemon Princes with Soporific Musk and Pavane - BS5 is good for Pavane but without Iron Hide they only have a 5+ save (I do have 2 of these for my Emperor's Children army, but they have armour and wings). 5) Soul Grinder - they get very expensive if you start adding guns, are hard to Deep Strike and can get popped by a single shot. But they are vehicles and so pretty immune to small arms fire. Any help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Your best bet at this point is a Soul Grinder or two with phelgm to provide cover fire to your army and moible cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depayen Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Go with Soulgrinders I run 2 to 3 in my army and do quite well. I have notice they also give as good as they get. the big bonus for you as a slannesh player they will draw fire away from your daemons. Get these babies close to someone armour and they start to panic. I did it to imperial guard player took out a hellhound and sential in one round I was able to charge both. then leman russ then another his last one was on the run and focus its attention on the soulgrinder while the daemons were moving unmolested. Give them a shot I think you will like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 How about 2 Kippers and spam Daemonettes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 It depends who you are going to go up against. That could work against Orks or Tyranids but most armies can gun down Keeper of Secrets without a problem. I would rather go a Keeper of Secrets and a Daemon Prince if you are set on playing monstrous creatures. So at least the Daemon Prince could get a 3+ armor save. Daemonettes are very vulnerable to any basic weapon and with the 5th edition change over are slightly over priced in comparison to the other troop choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Here’s a quick response to your specific options: 1) The Masque; I personally like this unit but she difficult to justify unless you build a specific strategy around her. You can’t rely on her in the open but I find that tucking her in between the legs of a Soul Grinder to be a perfect vantage for her to do her dirty work. The Pavane is her whole deal so if you take her, expect to use it a lot, every game, every change you get. 2) Slaaneshi Heralds are effective & dirt cheap. If you take the Masque then a second Herald is in order. You may consider not adding the mount/chariot and using it to add some IC power to a daemonette unit. 3) More daemonettes; I run multi-god with 2 squads of 10x daemonettes. Personally, I have a great time with them. Note that you need Troops to win objective based games. I would take as many of them as you can after you’ve worked out your other units. 4) Seekers; I’d skip them. Way too pricy. Take Fiends over Seekers any day. the other 4) Daemon Princes; Nurgle gives us the king of the Daemonic DP’s. If the MoS gave them Fleet then I’d be all over it but the +1 Initiative is really only meh. Still, to keep with the theme, I’d consider giving them both Iron Hide & Flight. The points mount up quickly but these guys are the ones that are going to trashing enemy tanks. They’ll do so effectively but they need the tools of the trade to get the job done. 5) Soul Grinders: They can really bring the anti-hoard but cheap, drive-up Melta squads are now everywhere. It’s not that the SG is a bad walker, it’s just that it’s the daemons’ only vehicle so all the enemy’s anti-tank capabilities will be aimed at them thusly. Heavy choices are tough calls for Daemons; 2 DP’s and 1 SG? Or 1 DP & 2 SG’s? or 3 DP’s??? Whatever you do, fill up all three choices and adjust your tactics accordingly. That being said, good luck & have fun with it. -OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Fiends: They're a bunch of daemonettes, but toughness 4 and less vulnerable to being blasted by templates and the like. They are a first wave choice for 18" average assault distance. Do you run your models the turn they deep strike? You can do that to spread them apart a bit. Even deep strike a little safer distance since they are fleet of foot, and run them the turn they arrive to close the distance. Do you deep strike more close to the middle, or off to the side of the table to flank the foe? They aren't tough and cant take a beating, even when charged. Run slightly larger units of 12+ (10 bolters, 6.6 hits, 4.4 wounds, 2x that result for rapid fire range for 8.8 wounds). You need at least 4 to make a difference, to tie down 10 marines in combat, lets say they lose 3 to 4 daemonettes charging, they kill 3. 12 Is the smallest unit I advise for T3 5++. Deep strike roughly, I'd say 12" away and near the corner of a rectangular deployment box formation. OOOOO OOOOO <-- like that formation, deep strike where you charge the corner of that formation so very few bolters can rapid fire you without having to move. Most people dont like moving. 8" is a good distance, allows the average 7" bad scatter distance 15" away, move+fleet+charge can make up for 18" total at best and getting too close having a large unit you may lose some to the 1" distance rule. 7" is roughly 4" on the average man's middle finger, nearly your whole hand's length is on average 7"-9". Just for eying reference. Icons are the only real upgrade you need in a unit. Musicians: rare for daemonettes to come to a draw. Its more for nurgle units. Seekers are ok, since they occupy fast attack slots. Use small squads, and set them up near the sides of the enemy army to recieve less fire. Fire to a daemon army. The hottest part of a bonfire is in the middle where all of the fire contributes to the heat. Be near the edge, and you get less fire. Daemon armies are scorned by the table edge and terrain, so be careful how close to the table edge you put the models. I would say a 9" gap between the deep strike starting model, and the edge is ok at the very most. Soul Grinder is a good model with pavane. It can use it with almost every gun to great effect, pulling the units short with each other is very nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laer Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I've seen quite a few instances (on this site and others) of people using Slaaneshi-looking "counts-as" models to use other Daemon types while still retaining the Slaaneshi theme eg: Sisters repentia counting as Bloodletters to provide more heavy hitting Troops. You might be able to fill some weak spots in your army that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Cheers for the help/advice. How about this? Keeper, Soporific Musk, Instrument 225 6 Fiends 180 6 Fiends 180 6 Fiends 180 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura 95 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura 95 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura 95 First wave 3x DPs, 2x Fiends and either the other Fiends or the Keeper (depends on opponent/mission). I couldn't fit anymore Daemonettes in, so they will be used either in pairs for assaulting (Kill Points and Capture the Flag missions), or will just spend the game hiding until required (Objectives mission). I'm thinking that 3 basic DPs will be better than 2 blinged up DPs, although I maybe wrong here. It gives more targets for shooting and more attacks for anti vehicle. They just need to be Deep Struck right in at the enemy early on. I just need that d**n plastic Daemon Prince to be released and I would be sorted ;) . What do you all think about this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The list is risky but could be fun to play. Here are just some general comments: I think the KoS is one of the best HQ choices around this point level. That being said, when you start to add upgrades they get really close the price of a Bloodthirster. I know that’s not your theme but perhaps a, “counts-as” might be in order. I usually run my KoS stock to save points. No icons? I would try to fit in at least two at this level. The eventuality of bad scatter results is one of the many banes to daemon armies. Ensuring that your more high value units arrive safely goes a long way, IMHO. Footslogging DP’s are going to find it hard to get in & stay in assault range. Note also that they are only T5 with a 5+ INV save. It’s not all that difficult to bring them down even just given one round of shooting. Though it costs, giving them all Flight & Iron Hide will protect their investment & ensure optimal Monstrous Creature destructive power where you need it. Note that you can leave DP’s unmarked and just paint them up to match your army. Blowing 30 pts. just to get them all from I5 to I6 is a tall price to pay. Otherwise, if you can keep your opponent focused on your high-value units & have the daemonettes keep their collective head’s down you should do ok. Have fun with it. Cheers, -OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 There is one fella who plays mono-slaanesh and does quite well with it. His main tiff was using all the beast/cavalry he could muster and jam pack them in both waves. He took on one end with the first wave, and the second wave was used to stall the other end while the first wave mopped up, taking casualties. Or putting them off in the distance even beyond 24" to get momentum for the army. He figures that having a few lascannons, some heavy bolters wont harm him too bad if he was careful where he placed everything, mostly out of range of basic boltguns. Letting the first wave tie things down before the second wave moved in. Its hard to explain for me since I only saw him play a few times, he plays on off days while I play near weekends unfortunately. First wave, off to one side, lots of 24" capable chargers. Takes little fire the turn they arrive, using the run rule to make up for any bad scatters if he could, my guess was about 18"-ish from the enemy on average. Then as the first wave gets to move in the second turn, he plops down more units dangerously close to the enemy units. But, he charges that turn with his 24" capable moving beasts/cavalry, so when they tie up the enemy his units are mostly safe from fire because the foe cant fire through combat. (And his cavalry/beasts are very tall for his daemonettes to hide behind) Any daemonettes put back with his other models would also be a turn away from charging like the second wave would be. Turn 2 passes and he's locked in combat with fearless models losing steam, he starts bowling over from one end to the other. Fleet, consolodation+high initiative allowing his long strides to victory makes it a savage army. And a very reliable setup I might add! I think it will be hard at first of course. The right model count, how many icons, what big critters to add.. Its all a balance, I never got a clear look at his list or keep a mental note of everything he used. I'm sure his army makeup was more in depth then what I figured it was, he won lots of games with them from what I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I could always exchange the DPs for 3 units of 5 Seekers, with Unholy Might being given to each of the Fiend units. Keeper, Soporific Musk, Instrument 225 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 5 Seekers 85 5 Seekers 85 5 Seekers 85 That would be a very fast army, if quite a bit brittle. I would think the tins (tanks) would have to have been opened first, else the Seekers would have nothing to charge. Another option I've been toying with is: Keeper, Soporific Musk, Trans Gaze 230 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura, Iron Hide 125 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura, Iron Hide 125 The DPs now have armour but are reduced in number. So they are more survivable d/t the armour where as before I was going for the strength in numbers ploy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Keeper of Secrets 200 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 10 Daemonettes, icon 165 10 Daemonettes, icon 165 10 Daemonettes, icon 165 8 Daemonettes 112 8 Daemonettes 112 Daemon Prince, MoS, daemonic flight, Iron Hide 180 Daemon Prince, MoS, daemonic flight, Iron Hide 180 Daemon Prince, MoS, daemonic flight, Iron Hide 180 1,839 pts, 62 models, 5/11 scoring units That leaves you a few extra points to play with up to 1,850 pts. Note that I still think you can afford to drop the MoS off the princes. That’s just my take on a list like this. -OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Cheers for the list. Unfortunately the tournament I need the list for is only 1500 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Drop one of the 10-man daemonette squads & 1 daemon prince. That works out to 1,494, 51 models, 4/9 scoring units with 6 pts left for some minor bling somewhere. Again, just a sugestion. -OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I called the shop where I play and that guy is there, because I wanted to ask what he uses. (This topic made me curious when I remembered that slaanesh player). That fella really should play on weekends, some dudes I never see anymore, guess they're avoiding weekend kid gamers. He uses... Heh, ok he uses 4 slaanesh heralds with chariots. Two squads of 20 daemonettes both with an icon. He uses 30 seekers, and 18 fiends in 2000 points. He divides the units evenly between both waves. He places down the one unit of daemonettes first. Then he places the chariots, both in front of the daemonettes something like a suicide unit that grants his daemonettes 4+ cover. He uses the run rule to make up for any bad scatters. His 3 fast units of both seekers and fiends (1 seeker unit, 2 fiend units, or 2 seeker units and 1 fiend unit depending on the wave) along the sides and about 17" away from the enemy. He hits a flank first, having at least one chariot grant cover with its huge base to the one daemonette unit he places down against the most distant firepower. The other one is a fair bit closer to taunt rapid fire weapons to shoot at them, and that same 5 wound chariot gets 4+ cover when a long range unit fires past its own units at the chariot in their way, so either way he forces cover saves or bad firing situations for the enemy where possible. He doesnt care if his chariots live, he treats them like sacrifices and cover givers. The second wave of chariots act similarly, arriving both at the same time or one at a time, giving even more cover chances! If not as cover by then, he uses them as tie up units or uses them along with his other cavalry/beasts. He always goes for the enemy flank unless the range doesnt matter like against some tau armies or mech armies. Always aiming for second turn assault, sometimes putting more fiends half in the second wave if there is a land raider on the table. After looking, 4+ armor save on the chariots, 5 wounds, 5+ inv save, long long base that loses one wound at most deep striking into cover if possible. Seems like a very sturdy tactic! This makes me think now... Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Cheers for making the call, that's a very interesting army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Here's a little somethin' I just wrote up. It should stick to the theme in mind as every model is Slaaneshi - there's no "counts as" in use here. HQ Keeper of Secrets - Instrument of Chaos The Masque Herald of Slaanesh - Chariot - Soporific Musk - Unholy Might TROOPS 12 Daemonettes - Chaos Icon 12 Daemonettes - Chaos Icon 12 Daemonettes ELITES 4 Fiends of Slaanesh - Unholy Might 4 Fiends of Slaanesh - Unholy Might HEAVY SUPPORT Daemon Prince - Mark of Slaanesh - Aura of Acquiscence - Soporific Musk - Iron Hide Daemon Prince - Mark of Slaanesh - Aura of Acquiscence - Soporific Musk - Iron Hide Total: 1,499/1,500 The idea behind this list is to take three larger units of Daemonettes as opposed to four smaller ones while maintaining the same number of infantry on the board. Small units of Daemonettes can be wiped out far too easily, even with cover saves, so I felt that more models per unit were needed. The HQ picks were kept fairly cheap and effective - normally I'm not a big fan of the Masque, but in this list she should function fairly well - her job is to Pavane important targets closer to your slowest units (the Daemon Princes) to help minimize the amount of actual walking that they need to do. The Keeper was originally meant to be stock, but there were 5 points to throw around at the end so he's now carrying an Instrument. The Herald is meant to be an extremely cheap and highly mobile unit to tie up shooting units or go after Transports to empty them of their contents. Mounted in her Chariot, she'll be able to dish out an impressive seven S5 I8 Attacks on the charge for only 90 points! Her WS value is high enough to make her good at fighting most infantry as well and the Soporific Musk upgrade allows her to bounce out of unfavorable combats. The Fiends are pretty self-explanatory - these guys are your transport hunters first and foremost, but can also deal a real beating to most other units. The hardest units to create were the Daemon Princes. The Mark of Slaanesh itself isn't very helpful as an Initiative bonus isn't exactly needed, but at least it's cheap. Its real use however, is to unlock a few of the tastier Slaaneshi abilities - namely Aura of Acquiscence and Soporific Musk. These guys, along with the Keeper are your true heavy hitters. Since they don't rely upon Rending Claws to cause the majority of their Wounds in combat they don't need high To Wound rolls to be effective, hence not bothering to upgrade their Strength characteristics. The Princes should look to work with the Masque as described above. The Masque pulls your target into assault range of the Daemon Prince, who then assaults it, looking to cause a significant amount of damage. Ideally though, you won't want to break the enemy in the first round of combat. You'll want to finish them off in your opponent's assault phase so you can reach another unit. Musk allows the Princes to break away from any combats that they aren't likely to win, or that would keep them bogged down to too long. You can also use it to "slingshot" and vastly increase the distance moved in a single turn. For example, assault an enemy unit and if it doesn't break, you can use Hit & Run to move an impressive 3D6" in any direction - ideally right into the center of the enemy army! Hopefully this is helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Cheers for making the call, that's a very interesting army. I was interested in it and going through things made me want to ask. Firedrake Uhm, I think thats the khorne chariot your thinking of. S3 is the only strength slaanesh models get even on chariots/steeds. I made the same mistake once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I was interested in it and going through things made me want to ask.FiredrakeUhm, I think thats the khorne chariot your thinking of. S3 is the only strength slaanesh models get even on chariots/steeds. I made the same mistake once. Nope. Basic Strength, plus Unholy Might, plus Furious Charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Might, yes, furious charge, not so much. I don't see it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Page 76 under the "Chariot of Slaanesh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 FireDrake28: I am currently musing over a very similiar list. Keeper, Soporific Musk 220 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 6 Fiends, Unholy Might 190 10 Daemonettes 140 10 Daemonettes 140 10 Daemonettes 140 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura, Soporific Musk, Iron Hide 145 Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Aura, Soporific Musk, Iron Hide 145 Bang on 1500 which is always nice :D . It is still a bit Daemonette light, but has everything else that I want. I don't think Icons are worth the points and as the Daemonettes would all be in the second wave, they wouldn't be much use anyway. I think this is the list I will playtest first, so thanks for everyone's input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 No clue I missed that rule after speed reading it several times. Maybe I need to practice speed reading before actually applying it. I have not done that in a while. Bad nostalgia. heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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