Current Space Wolf Codex FAQ

[Byrne]

Here is another Q on Logan:

 

If I take Logan, all wolfguard becomes troops, right?

 

So if I want to field grey hunters and have a "leader" in each squad, I would only get five troop choices in the force organisation chart?

 

Like this: I buy 5x9 grey hunters. and

1x5 wolfguards (one unit) that will go as "leaders"

 

Now I will have filled all my FoC slots for troops, but ends up with 5 units??

 

If I don´t have Logan in my army, I could take 6 units of grey hunters and add a wg from elite...

 

To me this feels wierd... It would make more sense if wolfguards under Logan and Fenrisian wolves under Canis would be "and/or" when choosing your force.

 

Yes, that's how it works, Logan "unfortunately" lets you have ld9 Grey hunters and 3 dreadnoughts. Something you can't do without him. It can't all be about benefits, you know.

 

 

It´s not all about benefits, what I do have a little problem with is that one troop choice just goes poof! but I guess thats the price...

[Toasterfree]

Here is another Q on Logan:

 

If I take Logan, all wolfguard becomes troops, right?

 

So if I want to field grey hunters and have a "leader" in each squad, I would only get five troop choices in the force organisation chart?

 

Like this: I buy 5x9 grey hunters. and

1x5 wolfguards (one unit) that will go as "leaders"

 

Now I will have filled all my FoC slots for troops, but ends up with 5 units??

 

If I don´t have Logan in my army, I could take 6 units of grey hunters and add a wg from elite...

 

To me this feels wierd... It would make more sense if wolfguards under Logan and Fenrisian wolves under Canis would be "and/or" when choosing your force.

 

Yes, that's how it works, Logan "unfortunately" lets you have ld9 Grey hunters and 3 dreadnoughts. Something you can't do without him. It can't all be about benefits, you know.

 

 

It´s not all about benefits, what I do have a little problem with is that one troop choice just goes poof! but I guess thats the price...

you have a simple option then, DONT SPLIT THEM OFF. I dont use WG at all in my lists and i fair well with out them. Of Course I have an IC in with every pack.

[WolfLordLars]

Wow, I didnt expect this kind of response.

 

Like the previous FAQ's, I will try to address all the replies, update the FAQ based on those replies, and then have the mod clear them out for more replies (that way we dont have 10+ pages of replies in the first few weeks.)

 

Give me a bit to compile a good response.

 

 

Thanks to everyone that posted!

[Ullr Direfang]

Here is another Q on Logan:

 

If I take Logan, all wolfguard becomes troops, right?

 

So if I want to field grey hunters and have a "leader" in each squad, I would only get five troop choices in the force organisation chart?

 

Like this: I buy 5x9 grey hunters. and

1x5 wolfguards (one unit) that will go as "leaders"

 

Now I will have filled all my FoC slots for troops, but ends up with 5 units??

 

If I don´t have Logan in my army, I could take 6 units of grey hunters and add a wg from elite...

 

To me this feels wierd... It would make more sense if wolfguards under Logan and Fenrisian wolves under Canis would be "and/or" when choosing your force.

 

Yes, that's how it works, Logan "unfortunately" lets you have ld9 Grey hunters and 3 dreadnoughts. Something you can't do without him. It can't all be about benefits, you know.

 

 

It´s not all about benefits, what I do have a little problem with is that one troop choice just goes poof! but I guess thats the price...

you have a simple option then, DONT SPLIT THEM OFF. I dont use WG at all in my lists and i fair well with out them. Of Course I have an IC in with every pack.

 

I guess "counts as" and "taken as" still needs to be cleared up for me (AKA by GW). I still do not believe that it is intended that WG take up a troop slot when one takes Logan, merely that they are scoring units. That is how i read it.

 

And my two cents on the Thunderwolf cavalry. The thunderwolf mount is not listed as wargear. So I would say that they have T5 and the special rule of rending (with what ever they are armed with). Whether or nor this is what is/was intended is still in the air to me, but I will have to wait until it is FAQ by GW.

[WolfLordLars]

Hes referencing both sides of the argument in his answer, while giving the RAW. Just like when he made the last FAQ for us...

 

Exactly. The RAW says X, the Spirit seems to be Y.

 

I only really even mention the spirit of the rules when its something that has the potential for abuse on our part, and its pretty clear that they didnt restrict it.

 

 

JOTWW is not a template weapon. It does not affect EVERYTHING that line passes through, unlike a template weapon. The power specifically states that it only affects certain models. Vehicles are not on that list, so you are not targeting your own models.

 

Very good point. I will be sure to modify the FAQ for that.

 

You've said that Thunder Wolf Mounts (TWM) don't give the true S/T5 that Thunder Wolf Cavalry (TWC) have but S/T4(5) like bikes.

Fair enough, TWM are wargear and different to TWC.

 

But you then go on to use the rules for TWM to say that TWC don't get special rending attacks, despite them having a rending special rule.

 

To my mind there are two ways to interpret the codex. Either TWM and TWC are different or they are the same.

If they are different, then characters on TWM get S/T4(5) as you state but TWC should get rending thunder hammers or whatever.

 

If they are the same, nobody gets rending hammers but everyone gets S/T5.

I believe this is the intent of the codex, but it also supports RAW (being told to +1 to the profile is open to interpretation).

 

You are correct. TWC and Canis get rending even on special weapon attacks. Models that get TWM (wargear) do not, because that piece of wargear specifies.

 

Also, re:Grimnar's High King. This is going to sound silly, but the rule states the player makes the choice, not Grimnar. (He's inanimate, how could he chose anything?) If all models were restricted to only using their abilities when they were on the field, then all those that allowed set-up bonuses would be out of luck, and Salamanders would have to wait for Vulkan to appear before they exchange chapter tactics. I believe RAW is quite clear on this. At the start of your turn you announce which USR high king will grant. From that point on the profiles of Grimnar and any unit he is with are altered to reflect your choice. It doesn't matter if Grimnar and the unit is on the table or not, or even if they're coming in that turn.

It's a one unit chapter tactic that changes each turn.

 

The requirement is Logan and one unit he is with. So, it only would even come into effect when he is on the table. This is something of a moot arguement, but I will reflect the answer.

 

 

Q - Is your army allowed more than one Wolf Standard

A - Iffy. I would say no, because that seems to be in the spirit of the rules, but the letter of the rules would imply that you COULD have one per GH pack. My suggestion, avoid the debate, only bring one.

 

There is nothing to suggest only a single Wolf Standard can be taken.

 

No, there isnt. Its more of SW History. In previous editions, only one of each banner was allowed. Thus, my answer. I will clear up the answer to define RAW and what it seen as the 'spirit' of the rules, and why.

 

 

Q - If the whole Wolf Guard Unit is split to become pack leaders when or is a kill point scored

A - Iffy. I would say that if you were to get a kill point at all (and I dont think you should if they are all pack leaders) you would have to kill every wolf guard in every pack they split into. But, by then, your probably having a pretty bad day anyway, so it wont matter much.

 

Actually, the rules are clear cut on this. A WG attatched to a pack becomes a member of that squad for all intents and purposes. He, alng with the rest of the Unit is worth 1 Kill Point, and is scoring if Troops. If you have 4 WG, and 3 are attatched to squads then the 4th is a Kill Point in and of himself.

 

Can you please cite the appropriate section of the rules for this? Book name and page number will be enough. I have not found anything that even implies that they become full members of the pack in all ways, so I am working with the previous edition outlook on it.

 

Q - Does Arjak's thrown thunderhammer 'Stun' his opponents as per thunderhammer CC attacks

A - "The Foehammer is a Thunder Hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile:" - Yes.

 

No, as the ranged weapon is a seperate profile.

 

Sorry, its a Thunder Hammer that can be used with the profile.. and a Thunder Hammer has special rules all its own which are included with that profile.

 

 

Q - How can Lucas the Trickster have attacks targetted against him if he is not an independent character

A - Thats a good one. p39 of the BBB details allocating wounds. Any that are on him are subject to his rules.

for it.

 

He can't.

 

You should re-read the BBB with allocating wounds. He is armed differently, so specific attacks can be allocated against him, and those are subject to his rules.

Edit: My mistake, the pelt only applies of rolls to-hit, not to-wound. His wargear is useless until he is alone, or until GW FAQ's it.

 

Q - If fighting against another Space Wolf army does the Wolf Helm of Russ allow both armies to re-roll Ld checks

A - I would say no, though rules lawers might try to argue against that. Generally special items like that only apply to your army, even if both are technically the 'same'. Since you will be playing another SW player, if he tries to pull this BS, feel free to break a beer bottle over his head and call him a cheesey git if he (she) does so.. and tell them I told you to do it.

 

For the same reasons that Locator Beacons don't work for an enemy SM player, no. Unless specified, these things only affect your army.

 

Is it in writing that Locator Beacons dont work for an enemy SM player? Can you cite that rule, so I can add it here?

 

so following this example if you were to add Fangir (TWM) to a wolf lord his profile would modify to

 

But, you dont add Fangir (TWM) to a Wolf Lord, you add a TWM, which works differently from Fangir. Why else would they specify special rules for Fangir? Sorry, that still doesnt hold water.

 

I dont like it, at all.. but thats how the rules are written right now. Canis and TWC have the stats in their profile, Characters with TWM's added do not, its an add on. Hopefully GW Clarifies it one way or the other.

 

I´m a bit confused about the Frostblade/TDA thing. The german ´dex allows it. Does the english ´dex say otherwise?

 

Yes, the English codex does not allow for Frostblades in TDA armor as an option. We have to go with that until they fix it.

 

Just a quick question to see if others agree with me.

 

Are you allowed to use the wolf banner to re-roll a 1 for the D3 charge bonus ragnar bestows on a unit? I would say yes, because you can activate the banner at the beginning of your turn (it doesn't exactly say when, but I presume you are allowed to activate it any time you want) and you roll the D3 when you charge which takes place in the assault phase.

 

Hmm.. I would say yes, if it rolls a "1" (not 2, which counts as a "1"), you could reroll. I will add that.

 

Here is another Q on Logan:

 

If I take Logan, all wolfguard becomes troops, right?

 

So if I want to field grey hunters and have a "leader" in each squad, I would only get five troop choices in the force organisation chart?

 

Like this: I buy 5x9 grey hunters. and

1x5 wolfguards (one unit) that will go as "leaders"

 

Now I will have filled all my FoC slots for troops, but ends up with 5 units??

 

If I don´t have Logan in my army, I could take 6 units of grey hunters and add a wg from elite...

 

To me this feels wierd... It would make more sense if wolfguards under Logan and Fenrisian wolves under Canis would be "and/or" when choosing your force.

 

Damn you math!

 

I would have to say that yes, a troop slot is used up by the Wolf Guard unit that is now dispersed in all the other units. It depends on how GW specifies Wolf Guard work (see the above issue about a pack broken up and counting as kill points).

 

 

Mods - Feel free to delete all before this, responses/answers have been worked into the FAQ. Lets start the next round.

[littlbitz]

I think its important even on a "Fluff" level to look at the "Wolf Standard".

 

The Space Wolves, being a boastful, and proud lot, could have any number of different Standards. I can see a Grey Hunter pack being given a "Pack Standard" as a Badge of honor, or them making thier own Wolf totem as a trophy from some great hunt.

 

Or it could even be that each Grey Hunter pack carries its own Standard in an effort to help gain the attention of the WolfLord on the battle field, so later when boasting in the Feasting hall they can talk of thier part in the Battle.

 

Or it could be that a Wolfguard Pack leader gives his own personal Standard to a Grey Hunter to carry for him.

 

Or, it could even be that several WolfLords are in the battle together, and each have a GreyHunter pack with them. In theory, a Player could take 4 WolfLords in a single game, why not each have a standard?

 

I plan on just using mine as "Pack Standards" and each Grey Hunter pack has its own, with its Pack markings on it, along with some trophies. It tells the "Saga" of the Pack. These standards a flown high while in battle, in an effort to gain favor from the Wolf Lord for thier brave deeds.

 

Just my imput, as why I think multiple Standards are not only RAW but also intent in this case.

[WolfLordLars]

Ah, very good point. I like it!

[Wena]

Excellent. You have done an outstanding job and I find very little to argue with...

[maznaz]

Re Arjac:

 

He has a Thunderhammer which can be used as a RANGED WEAPON with the following profile. Not a thunderhammer than can attack at range, or can be thrown which counts as a thunderhammer on impact.

 

It can be used as a ranged weapon with the provided profile. That, does in no way imply that the ranged weapon has any rules of a thunder hammer. I can understand why you'd think so, but that is certainly not what is written.

[the jeske]

so you mean is like the revers of pistols , a plasma pistol doesnt strike at str 7 in hth ?

 

am not getting the frost blade ruling . its doesnt give someone str 5 it gives someone +1str . the fist example is bit wrong there . two fist are not x4 str , because you can only use one special weapon/weapon in hth . a sw doesnt use 2 frost blades . he uses one ,it just happens that both give +1str and unless a bonus has to have a rule to not stack with another one.

[Valerian]

Lar's,

 

I disagree with one of your interpretations above. In the decision about rerolling the extra attacks from having Ragnar Blackmane attached to a unit using a Wolf Standard, you stated that only the actual roll of a 1 would be eligible, and not a roll of a 2 (which counts as a 1). Ragnar's Insane Bravado grants an extra d3 attacks on the charge, instead of the usual +1, as we all know. However, there is no such thing as an actual three sided dice, it cannot exist, thus most players simply use a d6 to represent a d3. Rolling a 1 or 2 on the representative die equals a "roll" of a 1 on the imaginary d3. There is no reason that the Wolf Standard would not allow the reroll of a 2 on the representative die, as you aren't really making a d6-based attempt, but using a convenient abstraction to represent the three possible outcomes of a d3.

 

Valerian

[WolfLordLars]

Re Arjac:

 

He has a Thunderhammer which can be used as a RANGED WEAPON with the following profile. Not a thunderhammer than can attack at range, or can be thrown which counts as a thunderhammer on impact.

 

It can be used as a ranged weapon with the provided profile. That, does in no way imply that the ranged weapon has any rules of a thunder hammer. I can understand why you'd think so, but that is certainly not what is written.

 

They state its a Thunder Hammer that can be used with the following profile. That implies it has all the special rules of a Thunder Hammer.

 

I can see your side, and will modify the answer to reflect that. I can see it going either way, so best to let the locals deal with it.

 

 

so you mean is like the revers of pistols , a plasma pistol doesnt strike at str 7 in hth ?

 

am not getting the frost blade ruling . its doesnt give someone str 5 it gives someone +1str . the fist example is bit wrong there . two fist are not x4 str , because you can only use one special weapon/weapon in hth . a sw doesnt use 2 frost blades . he uses one ,it just happens that both give +1str and unless a bonus has to have a rule to not stack with another one.

 

He gets +1 str from the one he uses, +1 attack from the second one. Is there anywhere in the rules where something that modified strength stacks? Power Fists are just what came to mind. Being armed with a Frost blade gives +1 Str.. I cant find anything that would even so much as imply that being armed with 2 will give you +2 Str.

 

 

I disagree with one of your interpretations above. In the decision about rerolling the extra attacks from having Ragnar Blackmane attached to a unit using a Wolf Standard, you stated that only the actual roll of a 1 would be eligible, and not a roll of a 2 (which counts as a 1). Ragnar's Insane Bravado grants an extra d3 attacks on the charge, instead of the usual +1, as we all know. However, there is no such thing as an actual three sided dice, it cannot exist, thus most players simply use a d6 to represent a d3. Rolling a 1 or 2 on the representative die equals a "roll" of a 1 on the imaginary d3. There is no reason that the Wolf Standard would not allow the reroll of a 2 on the representative die, as you aren't really making a d6-based attempt, but using a convenient abstraction to represent the three possible outcomes of a d3.

 

Thats a fair arguement.. but seems a bit cheap to me. You didnt roll a "1" on your dice. You rolled a 2, which "counts as" a 1, but you didnt roll a 1. That was the basis of the answer.

[RayJ]

New Question:

 

When adding a member of a Wolf Guard Pack to a Wolf Scout Pack as a squad leader, does that wolf guard member gain the abilities of the squad (Scout, Infiltrate, Move through Cover, Behind Enemy Lines). My instinct tells me "no", but a careful reading of both the codex and the rulebook leave this up for debate. The main rulebook lists which abilities are lost when independent characters join units, but these Wolf Guard are not independent characters.

[Grey Mage]

I have an actual D3, can I reroll both my ones?

 

To be fair, it counts as a one if its a 1 or a 2 on a D6, and Id hate to cheat anyone.

 

Now:

 

@ the Jeske- Im not sure how the rulebooks you have in Novobrasky read, but the english and american versions say you only get the special weapon's rules and +1 attack when you have two of the same CCW, so you dont stack them.

 

Fists etc being a good example. Otherwise 2xPF would = S 10.

[WolfLordLars]

I have an actual D3, can I reroll both my ones?

 

To be fair, it counts as a one if its a 1 or a 2 on a D6, and Id hate to cheat anyone.

 

 

*confused*

 

If you had an "actual" d3 (a d6 with 2 of each number, 1, 2, and 3 I would guess) would it be fair to re-roll both "1" results?

 

You turn a 1 in 6 chance of a re-roll to a 1 in 3. Hardly fair.

[WolfLordLars]

New Question:

 

When adding a member of a Wolf Guard Pack to a Wolf Scout Pack as a squad leader, does that wolf guard member gain the abilities of the squad (Scout, Infiltrate, Move through Cover, Behind Enemy Lines). My instinct tells me "no", but a careful reading of both the codex and the rulebook leave this up for debate. The main rulebook lists which abilities are lost when independent characters join units, but these Wolf Guard are not independent characters.

 

Ouch!

 

Technically, no, they wouldnt. That REALLY sucks for Scouts. Afterall, a Wolf Guard with Blood Claws doesnt get Berserk Charge, so strictly speaking, neither would one with Scouts and their abilities.

 

I will add this one later on after there has been some discussion. RAW says no, but I cant see anyone ever calling you on it.

[whitewolfmxc]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=182503

 

rules on Saga of the warrior born

[Valerian]

I have an actual D3, can I reroll both my ones?

 

To be fair, it counts as a one if its a 1 or a 2 on a D6, and Id hate to cheat anyone.

 

 

*confused*

 

If you had an "actual" d3 (a d6 with 2 of each number, 1, 2, and 3 I would guess) would it be fair to re-roll both "1" results?

 

You turn a 1 in 6 chance of a re-roll to a 1 in 3. Hardly fair.

 

It's completely fair. The rule isn't that you get to re-roll 1s on d6's, it's that you re-roll any 1's at all. Again, Ragnar's ability grants a +d3. The chance of getting a result of a 1 is 33.33% on a d3, so why should the opportunity for a Wolf Standard re-roll be half of that? Those folks who actually have the "real d3" (6 sided dice with two faces for each of the three results) are being completely kosher if they re-roll when either "1" face pops up.

 

V

[WolfLordLars]

Eh, I am indifferent to it. I dont think its right, but others do. Will modify the FAQ to reflect both sides.

[Quillen]

Q - Do Thunderwolf mounts add to the base Strength as well as Toughness for the purpose of Thunderhammers/Power Fists

A - No on Toughness. Reference p26 in the rulebook for how Instant Death works, and since any piece of wargear that ups toughness dont count for instant death (and since a Thunderwolf Mount is wargear), I would say no for Strength as well.

 

The Local GW store says no. Cause it says toughness 5 not 5(4) it makes it a total 5. Not a buffed up one. So ThunderWolf Cav can take 2 big hits before going down. As to a Wolf Lord, well I am not all that sure.

[WolfLordLars]

Eh, I have about as much respect for rulings from GW Stores as I do for any other gaming store. They are about as bad as the "Rulez Boyz". ;) Thanks for the info though.

[Hfran Morkai]

I've got a little thing that might clarify Fenrisian Wolves as wargear.

 

They do not count as a unit because there is no profile for them in the entries that can take them, compare that to the Iron Priest who is not an independent character but consists of a unit that has one Iron Priest and then optional servitors and cyber-wolves.

 

Therefore in my opinion it is very clear that Fenrisian wolves for characters do not make him a unit, remember our old codex? It had the profile for the wolves with each character (with Ulrik's even being cheaper and having a ballistic skill, hehe!) but a rule that specifically said they were a unit but allowed to join others.

 

It seems someone beat me to the punch!

 

And I was so excited...

[Catheras]

Q - Does Arjak's thrown thunderhammer 'Stun' his opponents as per thunderhammer CC attacks

A - "The Foehammer is a Thunder Hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile:" - Yes.

 

How can you even consider saying yes to this, there is nothing in this sentence that even hints to it being a Thunderhammer when using it as a ranged weapon, if it did it would say so in the profile after the :?

 

when that : comes out, you scrap all you know of the weapon, and listed after the : are the profile for the weapon.

I know it says "whenever a Thunderhammer inflicts any damage result...." but that is a special effect for the Thunderhammer, not the ranged weapon that has it profile listed after : :)

[Hfran Morkai]

To be honest who really cares? You're getting a railgun that hits on a 2+? (unsure on BS) and if you're that close he'll be assaulting as well, sure it would be nice to stun the opponent before charging them but GW as ever in their wisdom have left things open to interpretation.

 

I still love you GW for a beautiful dex and a hobby!

[maznaz]

To be honest who really cares? You're getting a railgun that hits on a 2+? (unsure on BS) and if you're that close he'll be assaulting as well, sure it would be nice to stun the opponent before charging them but GW as ever in their wisdom have left things open to interpretation.

 

I still love you GW for a beautiful dex and a hobby!

 

 

I think at least some of the people who are arguing for that interpretation like the idea of tag teaming something with Arjac and a Rune Priest with JOTWW.

 

Re: D3, a "proper" d3 is 3 long straight sides with curved ends. It would be very wrong and weird to have to roll a further d2 to decide if you could actually reroll a 1 on the d3 roll.

 

Marek