Current Space Wolf Codex FAQ

[Wispy]

I want you guys to read pages 28 to 32 of your rule book VERY carefully. You will notice Thunderhammer is not listed as a ranged weapon type or characteristic.

 

YOU CANNOT FIRE A RANGED WEAPON WITH A RANGED WEAPON TYPE THAT DOES NOT EXIST

 

There is a reason rending is listed twice in the rulebook, once under both ranged weapons types and once again under close combat weapon types, and that is because shooting and assault are both different things, and that their weapon types are not meant to be compatible!

 

 

You guys are suggesting there is ranged weapon characteristic that simply doesn't exist, and insisting the foehammer has it.

 

It doesn't matter if it says thunderhammer. Stop power gaming and look: Thunderhammer is not listed as a ranged weapon characteristic. You can't shoot with the characteristic thunderhammer because there is none.

 

Actually, the Ranged Weapon Type is called "assault" and the rules for their use can be found in the main rulebook.

 

Pistols are a subset of Assault Weapons and can be used in close combat.

 

So I think your confused.

You are correct Grey Mage. The terminology I am looking for is "characteristic." Thunderhammer would have to be listed as an additional characteristic in the shooting section if you wanted to shoot with those rules, and there is none.

 

edit: A characteristic would be one of the following: LANCE, MELTA, BARRAGE, SNIPER, PINNING, RENDING, TWIN LINKED, GETS HOT! Thunderhammer is not on these lists of characteristics, you'll notice.

[rahl02]

If that's the case those are just ADDITIONAL WEAPON CHARACTERISTICS not weapon type. The Thunder Hammer's weapon type is Assault. Then you have to read what the Thunder Hammer does.

 

Since now we've established that it's an Assault weapon now we have to look at what a Thunder Weapon is lets all turn to pg 42 again. Now we see what a thunder hammer is. It's the same thing with a bolter. A bolter is what a bolter is, it has it' profile and we have to see what a bolter is, wow we see a bolter has 24" range with a Str of 4, AP of 5 and what's this Rapid fire. Rapid fire is what we call a weapon type.

 

So what does it say about a Thunder Hammer in the Codex, well it tells me to look at the rulebook for a thunder hammer. Well now that you already have page 42 open lets here you read it out loud for the rest of the class. Now add that to it being thrown. Put them together and what do you get, that's right a stunning str 10 ap 1 assault 1 hammer with a RANGE of 6". If your that worried about it, make sure that your not close enough to get tagged by it.

[WolfLordLars]

Sounds like it. I am fairly amused at how many non-SW players (at least, they are new to this portion of the forums) that are now posting constantly here. :)

 

Its not power gaming. Its how the special weapon works, until GW 'clarifies' to say that while it is a Thunder Hammer, it doesnt stun when used at Range. Gotta love those special characters.

[Grey Mage]

I want you guys to read pages 28 to 32 of your rule book VERY carefully. You will notice Thunderhammer is not listed as a ranged weapon type or characteristic.

 

YOU CANNOT FIRE A RANGED WEAPON WITH A RANGED WEAPON TYPE THAT DOES NOT EXIST

 

There is a reason rending is listed twice in the rulebook, once under both ranged weapons types and once again under close combat weapon types, and that is because shooting and assault are both different things, and that their weapon types are not meant to be compatible!

 

 

You guys are suggesting there is ranged weapon characteristic that simply doesn't exist, and insisting the foehammer has it.

 

It doesn't matter if it says thunderhammer. Stop power gaming and look: Thunderhammer is not listed as a ranged weapon characteristic. You can't shoot with the characteristic thunderhammer because there is none.

 

Actually, the Ranged Weapon Type is called "assault" and the rules for their use can be found in the main rulebook.

 

Pistols are a subset of Assault Weapons and can be used in close combat.

 

So I think your confused.

You are correct Grey Mage. The terminology I am looking for is "characteristic." Thunderhammer would have to be listed as an additional characteristic in the shooting section if you wanted to shoot with those rules, and there is none.

 

edit: A characteristic would be one of the following: LANCE, MELTA, BARRAGE, SNIPER, PINNING, RENDING, TWIN LINKED, GETS HOT! Thunderhammer is not on these lists of characteristics, you'll notice.

Interesting interpretation, but sadly incorrect. Look at the TAU codex for example, or the Tyranid books... not all of the rules for a weapon are included in the profile all the time. The game is more interesting that way- adds some diversity, that a mere 8 descriptors simply couldnt match.

[Wispy]

A thunderhammer does things in close combat, and is listted under close combat weapons. It's nowhere in the shooting section, so what makes you think you can apply it's effects ranged? Read the blurb on additional charactistics in the shooting section - it establishes that a ranged weapon characteristic is used by the rules define how different ranged weapons work. You can't define how a ranged weapon works by referencing a close combat weapon.

 

 

I'm also personally insulted that Lars would suggest that I'm not a Space Wolves player because I don't agree with him. I've never posted outside this one forum, and they are my first and only army. :D

[rahl02]

A thunderhammer does things in close combat, and is listted under close combat weapons. It's nowhere in the shooting section, so what makes you think you can apply it's effects ranged? Read the blurb on additional charactistics in the shooting section - it establishes that a ranged weapon characteristic is used by the rules define how different ranged weapons work. You can't define how a ranged weapon works by referencing a close combat weapon.

 

 

I'm also personally insulted that Lars would suggest that I'm not a Space Wolves player because I don't agree with him. I've never posted outside this one forum, and they are my first and only army. :D

 

It does do things in close combat, but when you apply that to ranged it does the same thing. So wait a second what about poisoned weapons, they're a type of CC weapon, but I KNOW that there's a ranged weapon that has that same ruling. Are you going to tell me that it' wound on whatever it's roll then doesn't work because it's only for CC. NO your not. So then why wouldn't the same thing apply to a thunder hammer that's thrown. It's still a thunder hammer why wouldn't it work.

[HERO]

I'm playing characters mounted on Thunderwolves as true +1 S/T/A. The rules for a bike specifically says that it's T4(5) and that it's not immune to instant death by S8. The TWM doesn't have this ruling. For now, I will use it exactly like Tyranid upgrades (also written by Phil Kelly) and similarities shared by the Daemon Codex.

 

If Kelly had same wording and usage for upgrades (wargear) for Tyranids, then why would he mess up for Space Wolves?

[Toasterfree]

I'm playing characters mounted on Thunderwolves as true +1 S/T/A. The rules for a bike specifically says that it's T4(5) and that it's not immune to instant death by S8. The TWM doesn't have this ruling. For now, I will use it exactly like Tyranid upgrades (also written by Phil Kelly) and similarities shared by the Daemon Codex.

 

If Kelly had same wording and usage for upgrades (wargear) for Tyranids, then why would he mess up for Space Wolves?

i was looking at BRB today, as well as the C:SW. TWM says +1 to PROFILE, where bike rules say +1 to CHARACTERISTIC. And as the rules go, dex over rides BRB, but this does not really need to be applied here. he TWM adds to PROFILE, which makes it a true S/T/A bonus. think of it this way, you are adding ANOTHER living creature to a the IC, where if you add a bike, its not alive and loaded out with fuel. The bike gives some protection, but if you were to hit it with an AT weapon you are probably going to touch off the fuel. The TWM may not be seriously injured, not the IC, and able to fight on.

 

and the TWM is listed in the UPGRADES and other equipment section, not the wargear.

[Wulf Vengis]

Now wait a minute...youre telling me (or rather attempting to tell me) that Arjacs Hammer when thrown...is NOT...NOT...a Thunder Hammer? ......Take the ale away from him, hes had enough.

 

Page 51 of the SW DEX states:

The Foehammer is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile:

 

Range...Strength...AP...Type...

 

Now since it IS a T. Hammer it would follow all T. Hammer special rules, even if it is thrown rather than swung. Thats my two cents anyway...then again I feel that if youre character has two frost weapons his Strength WOULD be 6...but were not on that one anymore.

[Grey Mage]

A thunderhammer does things in close combat, and is listted under close combat weapons. It's nowhere in the shooting section, so what makes you think you can apply it's effects ranged? Read the blurb on additional charactistics in the shooting section - it establishes that a ranged weapon characteristic is used by the rules define how different ranged weapons work. You can't define how a ranged weapon works by referencing a close combat weapon.

 

 

I'm also personally insulted that Lars would suggest that I'm not a Space Wolves player because I don't agree with him. I've never posted outside this one forum, and they are my first and only army. :)

I never claimed a Thunderhammer could do things in close combat- but Im also open to the idea... and so far you havent given me anything more against it than "its not been done before" wich frankly doesnt mean beans.

 

There are in fact ranged weapons that reference close combat weapons and vice versa- pistols for starts, and the "seismic hammer" or the Ironclad, in part.

 

As for lars, I think his comments were not aimed at you. But Ive been wrong before.

 

I'm playing characters mounted on Thunderwolves as true +1 S/T/A. The rules for a bike specifically says that it's T4(5) and that it's not immune to instant death by S8. The TWM doesn't have this ruling. For now, I will use it exactly like Tyranid upgrades (also written by Phil Kelly) and similarities shared by the Daemon Codex.

 

If Kelly had same wording and usage for upgrades (wargear) for Tyranids, then why would he mess up for Space Wolves?

i was looking at BRB today, as well as the C:SW. TWM says +1 to PROFILE, where bike rules say +1 to CHARACTERISTIC. And as the rules go, dex over rides BRB, but this does not really need to be applied here. he TWM adds to PROFILE, which makes it a true S/T/A bonus. think of it this way, you are adding ANOTHER living creature to a the IC, where if you add a bike, its not alive and loaded out with fuel. The bike gives some protection, but if you were to hit it with an AT weapon you are probably going to touch off the fuel. The TWM may not be seriously injured, not the IC, and able to fight on.

 

and the TWM is listed in the UPGRADES and other equipment section, not the wargear.

Interesting, Ill check out the other codices and get back to you.

[Toasterfree]

its a fact man, trust me

[Grey Mage]

its a fact man, trust me

I do trust you, but I want to compare it to the wording in other codices to see if this holds true in general. Quiaff?

 

C: Daemons says "confers" and then has nothing in parenthesis. Looking for more...

 

C: CSM mark of Nurgle "Gains" and are subject to instant death. The bike references the core book.

[Toasterfree]

its a fact man, trust me

I do trust you, but I want to compare it to the wording in other codices to see if this holds true in general. Quiaff?

 

C: Daemons says "confers" and then has nothing in parenthesis. Looking for more...

golly!! is that a clan ref from battletech?

 

also look at BRB section on unit types for bikes

[Grey Mage]

its a fact man, trust me

I do trust you, but I want to compare it to the wording in other codices to see if this holds true in general. Quiaff?

 

C: Daemons says "confers" and then has nothing in parenthesis. Looking for more...

golly!! is that a clan ref from battletech?

 

also look at BRB section on unit types for bikes

Of course not, no member of this nova would ever let you know they were a closet Warden.

 

Ever.

 

Dont ask questions.

 

C: Daemons says "confers" and then has nothing in parenthesis. Looking for more...

 

C: CSM mark of Nurgle "Gains" and are subject to instant death. The bike references the core book.

 

C: Eldar says "increase" and has parenthesis.

 

Old rough riders have no special rules for mounts... so nothing there. I dont have the new IG codex sadly.

 

C: Necrons says "gets".

 

C: Orks says "adds" but specifies not for instant death.

 

C: BT specifies "increases" and has parenthesis.

 

C: DA doesnt say anything, just references the core rules.

[Toasterfree]

its a fact man, trust me

I do trust you, but I want to compare it to the wording in other codices to see if this holds true in general. Quiaff?

 

C: Daemons says "confers" and then has nothing in parenthesis. Looking for more...

golly!! is that a clan ref from battletech?

 

also look at BRB section on unit types for bikes

Of course not, no member of this nova would ever let you know they were a closet Warden.

 

Ever.

 

Dont ask questions.

 

C: Daemons says "confers" and then has nothing in parenthesis. Looking for more...

 

C: CSM mark of Nurgle "Gains" and are subject to instant death. The bike references the core book.

 

C: Eldar says "increase" and has parenthesis.

 

Old rough riders have no special rules for mounts... so nothing there. I dont have the new IG codex sadly.

 

C: Necrons says "gets".

 

C: Orks says "adds" but specifies not for instant death.

i will have to talk to my bondsman in y galaxy about that. seems to me that we have a breach of honor level 3 here.

 

but the key words in the TWM entry are add to profile. where the rules for bikes in BRB are to characteristic. the difference being is that when the model is upgrade to a bike, its not really modifying the person, where if you add the TWM you are. think of it also like a frost weapon, where you have to use it to get the benefit, a TWM you are always using, but its not wargear like mark of nurgle is. and the necron is a bad example of this as they do become true t6.

 

 

PS: you would die over my dreads name, and yes i painted it to the base

[Grey Mage]

Im all ears-

 

Tyranids say "gains" but dont have parenthesis.... though they are wonky.

 

And tau have distinct profiles... so are worthless here. *sighs*.

[Toasterfree]

Im all ears-

 

Tyranids say "gains" but dont have parenthesis.... though they are wonky.

 

And tau have distinct profiles... so are worthless here. *sighs*.

dreads name is RFL-3D. go here, look at my dread and imagine the same left arm as right, and well.....you know....

 

i think the tyranids sums that up for us since it says adds.

[Grey Mage]

Im all ears-

 

Tyranids say "gains" but dont have parenthesis.... though they are wonky.

 

And tau have distinct profiles... so are worthless here. *sighs*.

dreads name is RFL-3D. go here, look at my dread and imagine the same left arm as right, and well.....you know....

 

i think the tyranids sums that up for us since it says adds.

*nods* Im not against the idea of it going strait to profile as it were, I just require an ironclad argument... this certainly helps :).

 

BTW, that dread is beautiful... your an excellant painter.

LMAO.

Even if I did always prefer the IIC variant, with four ER Large lasers.

[Toasterfree]

well IMHO this locks up the TWM argument. and also explains why TWC dont have TWM listed as wargear as its an upgrade, not wargear like FB.

 

thanks on the compliment. its just a really simple method that as awesome results. i wonder though, in 40k terms what would be the str and ap of a er large?

[Grey Mage]

Hrmm.... you know, an autocannon is probly about right for it actually, even if it isnt a laser.

 

I was about to say an assault cannon- but with short range and high shots that sounds more like an er large pulse to me, going with plasmacannons as a standard ppc.

 

Has he been working well for you? Im hesitant to drop the AC for an... AC, you know? especially at +10pts.

 

Upgrade is an interesting point... Ill check around, but I believe the core rule book specifies wargear.

[Toasterfree]

brb DOES specify wargear, trust me on that i was staring at it today.

 

my dread works great most of the time, he is anti-transport, im tempted to try him twin/ac and missile just once, but I like the large volume of fire, its wolfy.

 

id agree with PC on ppc, but it think if were talking CLAN er large that would be a las. idk what a lpl would be, thats a hard one. i think the ML would be something like a lrm 10/15.

[Grey Mage]

brb DOES specify wargear, trust me on that i was staring at it today.

 

my dread works great most of the time, he is anti-transport, im tempted to try him twin/ac and missile just once, but I like the large volume of fire, its wolfy.

 

id agree with PC on ppc, but it think if were talking CLAN er large that would be a las. idk what a lpl would be, thats a hard one. i think the ML would be something like a lrm 10/15.

Definitely a 15, a dreadnaughts probly an average 50-60 tonner, and you can potentially take it out with one shot... or near a dozen.

 

It does specify wargear... and thats interesting. Well see what my gaming group comes up with for arguments, at the moment Im out.

[WolfLordLars]

I just sliced my finger open working on my old metal wolf guard. Thus, bleeding.

 

So, tomorrow, after I am done explaining to you stravag freebirths exactly why it is that the Crusader cause is the most honorable, and why the Jade Falcons should of been the ilClan, I will go through the rules issues presented. Seyla!

[Grey Mage]

I just sliced my finger open working on my old metal wolf guard. Thus, bleeding.

 

So, tomorrow, after I am done explaining to you stravag freebirths exactly why it is that the Crusader cause is the most honorable, and why the Jade Falcons should of been the ilClan, I will go through the rules issues presented. Seyla!

I bid 1250pts, 1 HQ, 3 troops, 1 elite, 2 HS, 1 FA. For the Ghostbears.

 

And be careful for goodness sakes.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Chaps, this is a 40 K forum. We don't make up stuff about "Ghost Bears", here in the Inner Sphere.