IA: The Stonebound

[Ace Debonair]

Did that make sense or have I just waxed lyrical in my sleep-deprived state (sleep-critiquing?)?

:mellow:

Actually, GHY, your response is kind of both. I already got around that particular issue in the latest draft, I think. ;)

But even deprived of sleep, your insight is gratefully recieved, and reinforces further the conclusion I'd arrived at.

*Raises hand* "Err... sir?.... I do...." *Blam!*

Anyone else see that? I just shot a guy in Australia with a bolt pistol. From England. And it's night-time. :P

 

KHK:

Consider your suggested edits made to the draft in post #240. I'm saving the 1st post for a sidebar-inclusive update. :D

Although, I've left the bit about the council of captains and neglected to add in anything about recruitment right now.

Stuff concerning those topics will require clarity of thought to articulate correctly, and my general absence of sleep is a real obstacle to good writing. B)

 

Many thanks to both of you for taking the time out to evaluate my space-dwarves. :huh:

Next step will also be to sort out sidebar #2. I'll probably post up all my options and let the general public decide impartially, or at least if it generates any interest. Failing that I have a good coin I can flip. :D

[Ace Debonair]

Excerpts from the 'Legacy Saga'

The word was young, the stars were clean
No stains upon the sky were seen
Our Lord sat not on Golden Throne
But boldly strode the Earth alone
His lightning sword did strike his foes
His power and his banner rose
He brought together tribe and clan
To help reforge the worlds of Man
With potent seed and twisted gene
He then brought forth the Space Marine
And twenty Sons, great warriors all
In the golden times, before the fall...

...But shadow flickered past the glow
As forces Man should never know
Did twist and plot and cast their schemes
And whisper to the Sons in dreams
That they would be used and cast aside
Used to build the Emperor's pride
To make a realm for him alone
To dictate to from golden throne
While those who that realm had wrought
Would wither, die and be forgot.

They took these whispers deep to heart
And with help of Chaos tore apart
The works that took so long to make
Took little enough to break
Foul Horus, once his son most dear
Betrayed him out of treachery's fear
And Son fought Son on Terra's soil
Those who once had been most loyal
Had destroyed all that they had kept
And on his throne, the Emperor wept

But grief could not stay his might
Nor darkness hide the Emperor's light
His mighty sword did sweep away
The treacher of his Sons, and they
Did flee in terror through the sky
And hide in places low and high
To escape the wrath of Space Marine
Who sought and cleansed out the unclean
But hiding did avail them nought
And so they reaped what they had wrought

Interr'd within the Golden Throne,
Sealed in halls of steel and stone,
In Terra's halls of he guides us still,
A ruler, strong of mind and will,
The Emperor, who by thought alone
Will rise again from Golden Throne!
And lead us to a future bright
And bring to Man eternal light!

And we, descended of his line,
His legacy, for all of time,
The sons of Khan, the sons of war,
We, the Stonebound - Evermore!
We will answer to your call,
Hail the Emperor! Lord of all!

The Battle of Ivenix

Captain Vigus Darwin of the Frost Wyrms 3rd Company stood surveying the battlefield. Greenskin corpses were being piled in a great heap and burned by his brethren and the Marines of the Stonebound Chapter, who had also responded to the Ivenixian’s requests for aid. Their warriors laughed and called to each other in some guttural language Darwin did not know. Another voice boomed out behind him.
"Captain Darwin! Tonight, we break a Grudge-stone. Warboss Armrippa lies slain thanks to you and your men. The Frost Wyrms fought like Gor'da today - strong and swift. Come, join our feast as guests of honour!"
Darwin turned to the speaker, removing his helmet as he did so.
"With no offence intended, Captain Aus'tarn, I must decline your offer. This is no time for such frivolous behaviour as feasting."
Captain Aus'tarn's expression grew thunderous.
"What's this? We come to war to aid you, in the name of honour and brotherhood! And this is how you behave in return?"
"My men and I must stay focused. The defences must be rebuilt in case of another attack. After that, we must return to the Wyrm-hearth."
"I see." Aus'tarn's voice was suddenly cold and grim. "Have no fear, Captain. After we feast, my men and I will assist you. However,” he added sternly, clearly unsatisfied with Darwin's decision, “you should know that it is misfortune indeed not to honour the victory and those who died. When this day is done we must part ways.”
Darwin simply nodded and turned back to his men, barking orders. Aus'tarn stared after him sadly for a long moment, certain that the Captain would one day rue his decision; then turned back to his brothers, raising his flagon high. "To honour, brotherhood and The Emperor!"

Ok, there's my two contenders as I see 'em for sidebar #2. First one is that way awesome saga that Octavulg wrote, second is a slightly modified version of Lyismachus' portrayal of the Battle of Ivenix. I can't choose between them, so I'm hoping some of you guys will make the decision for me. :)

Anyone got any favourites, or any comments in general? Let me hear 'em!








EDIT: Apologies for the length, I thought it'd be best to present them both as sidebars.









Though it does make the post I made look very small. :lol: Edited May 4, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Brother Argent]

Octavulg's Saga most certainly. Its poetic,suits the character of the chapter and is loaded with awesome. The second one is okay but I feel the firt captures the spirit of the Chapter better.

[Lysimachus]

Agreed, Octavulg's suggestion helps get the dwarf-y theme across much better..... and that's coming from the bloke who wrote half of the other one! :)

[Octavulg]

Honestly, I think they could both get a little improvement and that either one would work.

 

I think mine/yours is a little more specifically Dwarfy. They're both good, it's just that one doesn't necessarily drive home the Dwarvitude.

 

Also, the ending of mine (which is actually your ending, IIRC), gives me chills.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Octavulg

[Ace Debonair]

Thanks guys, that's my choice made for me. :D

 

I'm not sure what else needs doing now, barring sorting out the layout of the updated IA.

Incidentally, I'm open to suggestions on how it should look, if anyone has any.

 

As a side-note, I'd captionize the pictures, but they look awfully odd that way, and I'm not sure where I'd squeeze in the description of the chapter's badge.

 

Oh yeah, the new version of the IA is now post #1 again, just to clarify. :wacko:

[Hrvat]

This is a very interesting chapter and I enjojed reading this article. The rimes of the Saga made feel warm and proud inside.

[Ace Debonair]

This is a very interesting chapter and I enjojed reading this article. The rimes of the Saga made feel warm and proud inside.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

The more I look at that saga, the more I reckon using it was the right call. :D Thanks again to the democratic process and everyone who saved me having to pick myself. :D

I'm considering moving the 'Legacy Saga' up to the Homeworld section so I can put the 'Broken Sabre' bit on Combat Doctrine, where it was supposed to go.

 

Problem there, of course, being that people might read the saga before really knowing why it's there. :)

[Donkey Kong]

Both.

 

I prefer the Saga but I think it has a lot less to do with the Chapter.

 

Also, one line:

 

With potent seed and twisted gene

 

I don't think twisted is the right word. I would say something like altered or reformed.

[Octavulg]

You're not thinking about it literally enough. :)

 

(Hint: It's a pun. A terrible, terrible pun.)

Edited May 5, 2010 by Octavulg

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

In my opinion this is ready for submission. While when I think of dwarves, I think hammer, in WFB axes are far more common. I have been inspired anew to complete and polish my IA. I am also gonna steal the idea of responding to the Iron Gauntlet at the start of my IA. Thank you for a well produced article.

[Ace Debonair]

Cheers, KHK. Now I'm certain I picked the right one.

I'll leave that line as it is, though, unless it gets any more complaints.

 

Madwolf Shadowmane:

Well, what can I say to that? I'm glad something I've done is creating inspiration - it makes a nice change.

I'd like to think the Stonebound are close to completion, and therefore Librarium submission, but I'm biased. :D EDIT :Besides, last time I thought that it turned out the IA needed a total re-write. :D

 

I'll see what the next couple of days bring before I try and sneak these guys into the Librarium, just in case I wind up thinking of something great, or in case anyone spots a big ol' glaring flaw that I've overlooked.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Brother Argent]

Submit. Submit. Submit... ;)

 

Subliminal messaging at its poorest...

[Espada Azul]

I say submit it. Just polish the BBC coding a bit though when you're actually doing the entry in the Librarium, ahaha.

 

It's still far better than my own tentative outing writing an IA. :)

[Ace Debonair]

I say submit it. Just polish the BBC coding a bit though when you're actually doing the entry in the Librarium, ahaha.

 

It's still far better than my own tentative outing writing an IA. :)

 

:P

Surely you're not comparing the Stonebound to the Azure Blades? The Azure Blades are one of my personal favourite DIY chapters (Along with the Arctic Lions and Warriors Eternal), and I doubt very much I'd ever deem any of my creations to be on the level below them, let alone on equal footing.

 

I take it by polishing the BB code you mean move the sidebars around a bit?

I honestly don't know how else to improve the presentation.

 

Subliminal messaging at its poorest...

As bad as the one in my signature? :P

 

EDIT: Also the Death Heads are a favourite of mine, too. Loyalist Space Pirates = awesomeness. I still get a bit starstruck when working on stuff for the Gehenna campaign, since all three of the other chapters are so much cooler than my Infinity Knights. :)

Edited May 5, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Donkey Kong]

Why, thank you Ace :tu: !

 

The only thing left to say is submit The Stonebound and get back to Gehenna Perditia! NOW SOLDIER! LEST THE EMPEROR FIND YOU WANTING!

[Espada Azul]

I take it by polishing the BB code you mean move the sidebars around a bit?

I honestly don't know how else to improve the presentation.

 

BBC code formatting is very tricky, as what might work when you're posting here in the Liber subforum would look haphazard in the actual Librarium article (as I found to my horror, which kind of explains the rash of edits that followed afterward ahaha). When you're ready submit to the Moderators, I think it's VERY important to look at it as soon as it's posted, as those pretty sidebars will cause you a lot of pain. :P

 

OT: My personal favorite entry in the Librarium is the Warriors Eternal. Marines obsessed with purging weakness? Oh yes, now that's a theme, which I found hard to do with the Azure Blades' "homeless wandering swordsman-come-borderlands ranger" schtick.

[Ace Debonair]

Well thanks to the subtle combination of encouragement and demands employed by the last few posts, I've been motivated to submit the Stonebound to the Librarium.

 

Anyone who reads this, wish me luck. I have the suspicion it will be required. ;)

 

If success, I'm breaking a grudge-stone and throwing a party - anyone not currently on crusade can swing by the ol' secret caves for some Kagaran ale.

If failure, endure. And eliminate of the cause of failure.

 

Might as well deal with either outcome the Stonebound way, right? ;)

[Brother Argent]

I'll have in on that ale.

 

As a side note as far as I know you are one of only three that I am 100% certain will get the golden quill now that you have submitted. Of course I have to count comments but off the top of my head I think you are like 100/20 or something.

[Wildfire]

Anyone else see that? I just shot a guy in Australia with a bolt pistol. From England. And it's night-time. ;)

 

I'm fairly sure that given their relative positions on the globe one or the other would always be in darkness.

[Ace Debonair]

Anyone else see that? I just shot a guy in Australia with a bolt pistol. From England. And it's night-time. ;)

 

I'm fairly sure that given their relative positions on the globe one or the other would always be in darkness.

 

That just means I also had to compensate for the sunlight being in my eyes. I didn't want to have to boast about it, but... :)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Good luck Ace! Your skill with a bolter notwithstanding I think the Stonebound are fantastic and deserve to be in the Librarium and should be seen there post haste! I haven't been able to give as much feedback as I used to simply because of working more than I am used to (and still am not totally used to ;)) and I wish I could post more on these guys because they are so good.

 

I hope to see the Stonebound in the Librarium soon! Surely the Emperor shall smile down upon your dwarfiness with pride.

[Ace Debonair]

Good luck Ace! Your skill with a bolter notwithstanding I think the Stonebound are fantastic and deserve to be in the Librarium and should be seen there post haste! I haven't been able to give as much feedback as I used to simply because of working more than I am used to (and still am not totally used to ;)) and I wish I could post more on these guys because they are so good.

 

I hope to see the Stonebound in the Librarium soon! Surely the Emperor shall smile down upon your dwarfiness with pride.

 

You're alive? I mean, uh, of course you are. I only fired a warning shot anyway. *cough*

Anyway. Thanks for the vote of confidence, GHY. ;)

 

To be honest, I'm no longer actually worried if people don't pick up on the dwarfishness. It's a bit stronger-flavoured, but I'll be happy if people come away with the impression of 'subterraenean smiths' like Apothete did.

I know that had pretty much nothing to do with what you just said, but I felt it needed saying. ;)

[Octavulg]

Captain D'ain Maurak looked into the single eye of the ancient marine who had called into question the honour of his chapter. Picking up the iron gauntlet, he considered his words carefully. "Your armour tells me you have seen much battle, my brother. But the valour and deeds of my chapter will not be questioned!" D'ain stood proud and tall, crashing his hand againt his chest, accompanied by the rustling jingle of his mail hauberk. "We are the Stonebound - let me tell you of our saga!"

 

I don't like this. Not sure why. Just feels...badly acted.

 

Created in the Sixth Founding from the gene-seed of Jaghatai Khan, the Chapter that would come to be known as the Stonebound was assigned to the Segmentum Pacificus to combat the threat of increasingly numerous Ork incursions. A cadre of veterans from their parent chapter, the Red Sabres, would train them for a time, overseeing the maturation of their first five generations of recruits. Alar Baines was the leader of this cadre, but would not claim the position of Chapter Master, insisting that his role was only to mentor the Chapter for a short time. He instead took up the title of Grand Captain and created a temporary council of Captains. Baines taught these warriors of the many responsibilities and burdens of command, and began to search for a leader who might replace him when the time came.

 

Baines’ next task as leader of the fledgling Chapter was to find a world that they could call their home. This search lasted for several decades, as the Chapter moved from system to system, engaging in battle with the myriad enemies of mankind. World after world proved unworthy to call home, but soon after his Marines made planetfall on the world known to the Imperium as Kagara, Baines knew that his quest had finally ended.

An idea which occured to me - what if they're reclaiming a lost 'Dwarven' hold? Either Squat or Space Marine would work, but it's very Dwarven either way. Shades of Moria and the Mountain. Starts the IA out with the right attitude. You could do some serious Hobbit parallels, if so inclined. Dare you to redo the Battle of Five Armies. ;)

Also, Baines makes me think of Amanda Bynes, which just makes me distracted. And isn't very dwarfy, in any case. In any way. I'd recommend a slightly more dwarven name. Or at least more grimdark.

"In the Kagaran caves at winter, the only light is faith in Him. Darkness surrounds, and we endure."

Oruc Stonebreaker of the Redshields Company speaking to an officer of the Imperial Navy two years after the battle at Kagara.

Say 'The Emperor' rather than "Him", I'm thinking. Feels more natural.

 

Kagara is a world within the Segmentum Pacificus, close to the borders with the Segmenta Tempestus and Solar. A planet of extremely volatile winters, the people of Kagara survive the merciless blizzards and destructive gales of the season by taking to the underground. Under the surface, Kagara is home to vast, underground seas, heated by geothermal vents. The world has multiple, large moons that cause tidal stresses only during the already merciless winters, causing the raging, roiling waters of the underground to surge along ancient, worn paths in the forms of rivers and geysers. In heading to the underground, the people of Kagara do not escape danger - rather they trade one set of difficulties for another. However, the people have adapted well to the depths. Much of the interaction between clans, such as trade or warfare, continues in the dark, dangerous caverns. An additional threat is the Gor'da, or 'Dark lizards', large, dangerous crested lizards that are easily capable of attacking and killing entire human convoys. During the winter, the Gor'da become more active, scenting both humans and their livestock as potential food sources.

 

Where's the Dwarf? This reminds me more of the Salamanders than of anything else.

 

Being nomadic really hurts the Dwarvishness. Maybe if they were journeying from fortress to fortress. But I think you might be better with them just living in fortresses and coming out to farm and stuff in the winter. Flat-out migrating just isn't that Dwarven, IMO.

 

In response to the threat of the Gor'da, the Kagarans built hardy stone fortifications, sturdy enough to withstand attacks from the dark lizards. Although the Kagarans have not discovered gunpowder, in recent years the clans have begun to make use of watermills and steam technology, most notably to quickly open and close the sturdy stone doors of their fortifications, and to power their forges. The tidal fluxes that causes the raging waters in the winter are what power these watermills, and during the rest of the year they lay dormant. The watermills are in fact a relic from previous Imperial occupation of the planet, and are held in a reverance bordering on religious fervour. To damage a watermill or forge, even one of a rival tribe, is seen as the greatest of crimes, and is invariably punished with death. Forges are used almost constantly throughout the winter, creating weaponry, armour, and construction tools in preperation of the return to the surface.

 

I'd like some character insight into the home world along with all this - this is a lot about how they live, but not who they are. The whole section has something of this problem - it's a fairly lengthy explanation of how the people live, but doesn't give us much insight into who they are (or how the Chapter fits into that).

 

It was half a year later that the Orks came, attacking Kagara and the Stonebound in their thousands. The Stonebound's response was as swift as it was brutal - launching a series of lightning raids on the greenskins, whilst chapter serfs urged the tribes of Kagara to make for the underground. The Stonebound's raids, while effective, were not enough to halt the Ork advance, and soon the numbers of the advancing xenos began to tell, inflicting much damage to the Chapter's bikes and land speeders. The Stonebound were forced back to their half-completed fortress monastery. Grand Captain Baines grew frustrated with the situation - with every attack launched against the Orks, more losses were taken by the marines. It was one of the Captains Baines was training, Jorn Rockhammer, who devised the solution. By creating new tunnels and linking the already vast network of tunnels under the surface, the Stonebound were able to attack from unexpected quarters, allowing them to strike any exposed weakness in the Ork advance. The chapter would set up a series of strong points within the tunnels, allowing infantry-based raids from multiple directions whilst maintaining solid defences that could ward off counter-attacks. Rockhammer's strategy drove the Orks from the tunnels, and mere weeks later, winter came to Kagara, killing as many of the greenskins as the brutal, co-ordinated attacks of the astartes. On the first day of spring, the entire Chapter surged forth, bursting from the caves of Kagara and driving the Orks on the planet to extinction. The people of Kagara were jubilant, and to the surprise of the Astartes, the clans united for a day, holding a great feast 'to remember and honour the dead and the brave'. The clans begged the Stonebound to attend, and Baines reluctantly accepted the honour.

 

It feels odd for them to adopt such un-White-Scarsy solutions. Or to withdraw to a fortress in any case...remember how the White Scars fought at the Siege of Terra. I'd see some of them holding the fortress, but I'd expect the rest to range outside, harrying the besieging Orks.

 

When Grand Captain Baines left Kagara to return to the Red Sabres, he made Jorn Rockhammer, then Captain of the First Company, the first true Stonebound Chapter Master. Under his leadership, and those who came after him, the Stonebound have waged war against the foul Orks ever since. The Chapter has developed a fierce love of close combat tactics, and in a salute to an ancient Kagaran warrior tradition, each marine carries an axe with him into battle. The axe, to the Stonebound, symbolises the role of a space marine - to brutally and irrevocably destroy the enemies of makind.

 

I must ask...why bother to have them be White Scars successors? You end up having to change their character a lot to get them appropriately Dwarven (and I'm not sure it's worth the effort). Dorn feels like a more natural fit for this sort of thing - has the appropriate tenacity etc.

 

Took little enough to break

 

Add a 'Now' in front of 'took'.

 

Foul Horus, once his son most dear

 

Capitalize the 'His'es when they're referring to the Emperor.

 

The treacher of his Sons, and they

 

While treacher would be an awesome word, it isn't one.

 

Who sought and cleansed out the unclean

 

Try "That sought and burned out the unclean".

 

Yes, I know I wrote half the stuff I'm critiquing here. I was wrong. But I'm totally right now. <_<

 

The beliefs of the Stonebound have been heavily influenced by the attitudes of the Kagaran people. In Kagaran society, two abilities are prized over all others; skill in battle and craftsmanship, whether in carving stone or forging steel. From a very young age, all Kagarans are taught these skills and in Kagaran warrior tradition, a man is only truly a man when he has forged his own chain-mail and axe, and is ready to use them in the defence of his people. Both of these customs are held dear by the Chapter. Each Marine learns to lovingly care for his own weapons and armour, but also to create other pieces, statues and sculptures in metal and stone, ornately decorated to commemorate victories or other notable events.

 

Again, this doesn't feel like a good fit with the White Scars.

 

Stonebound marines are often easily identifiable even amongst their fellow Astartes, thanks largely to the practice of adorning their ceramite armour with decorative mail links. Marines of higher rank or veterancy are generally more decorated, sometimes with entire hauberks, shoulder coverings or even mail hoods. The practice clearly originates from Kagaran culture, but the Stonebound also say to not show the proper respect to the holy armour of The Emperor's Space Marines would be to invite misfortune and failure in battle. Part of the spiritual practice of the Chapter revolves around the creation of arms and armour, reflecting in miniature the Emperor's creation of His holy weapons, the Space Marines. Techmarines chant praises to the Emperor, Khan, and the heroes of the Stonebound, punctuated by the simultaneous crashing of hammer on anvil. Given that the Stonebound have an almost spiritual relationship with their arms and armour it is unsurprising that Techmarines are figures of some stature within the Chapter. Not only do they take care of more complex repairs, oversee the rituals of forging, and maintain the well-being of the Chapter’s machine spirits, but often Battle Brothers approach them when they have a need for spiritual guidance - linking flaws in the art of forging to a troubled and ill-balanced soul. Techmarines often set penances for those who feel their skills are lacking, and offer the forgiveness of the Emperor and the machine spirits to those who complete said penance. For this reason, the functionality of the Chapter Reclusiam is somewhat altered as well; their roles outside of battle almost solely consisting of the duties usually associated with a Master of the Recruits. However, the zeal and fervour of the Chaplains remains undiminished, and in battle they perform as they would in any other chapter.

 

Paragraph breaks are not just something that happens to other people, you know. :P

 

I'd wonder whether you should make it clear that in many cases this forging is symbolic - most Space Marine equipment isn't the sort of stuff you can make on an anvil.

 

Kagarans have little use for the written word. Paper is dismissed as too flimsy to survive in the harsh winters, and carved stones are seldom used. As a result, each Kagaran clan has a small council of learned scholars, known collectively as sages. It is their duty to memorize the details of contracts, lineages, and other important knowledge. The only words written by the sages are the details of an enemy or a dishonour that must be avenged by the clan, and these are carved into 'Khu'ra', or grudge-stones. These are carved during the dark months, detailing the vengeance that must be extracted upon the target of the grudge-stone. The breaking of a grudge-stone is a cause for celebration for the Kagaran clans, and is often done with considerable ceremony. Much of this carries over to the Stonebound astartes, their Librarians taking on the iconic name of the Sages. Grudge-stones are still used to record the details of losses or dishonours, and the chapter will fight with unmatched ferocity to avenge a loss recorded on a grudge-stone. In an act echoing the great feast after the siege of Kagara, the breaking of a grudge-stone is a cause for company-wide celebration, and a feast to honour the memories of the dead and the brave.

 

Stop giving everything funny names. One or two per IA is fine, but there's no need for these to be anything but grudge-stones. Grudge always seems to have overtones of pettiness (at least to me), so another term might be an improvement, but if not, fair enough.

 

Kagaran tribes are also superstitious about their names, using aliases and codewords when dealing with members of other clans. Kagarans follow the belief that the use of someone's true name by an enemy will rob them of their power, and this belief has also, over time, infiltrated the ranks of the Stonebound. Thus, to outsiders, the Stonebound appear more insular and solemn than many other chapters, seldom engaging in conversation outside of discussing tactics or making reports. They also never give their Kagaran names to outsiders, instead using approximate High Gothic translations of their surnames, and sometimes also replacing their first names with their rank or simply the word 'Stonebound'.

 

This jars with the introductory paragraph and that sidebar about the feast - if they're so taciturn and they keep to themselves so much, why do they keep quaffing with everyone they see?

 

"Let the enemy charge like a fool, recklessly taunting fate. In battle, we are as the mountains of Kagara - patient and unbreakable!"

Sergeant K'ahl Oakenshield of the Stonebound tenth company instructing recruits.

 

Your quotes feel a little too excitable. Calm down.

 

Also, while I love a good stone simile as much as the next man, this one isn't exactly wowing me.

 

Whilst Orks are still the foremost enemy of the Stonebound, they have also crossed blades with marauding Chaos warbands, put down heretical planetary rebellions, and in more recent times fought against a Tyranid Splinter Fleet believed to be a part of Hive Fleet Leviathan. The tactics used by the Stonebound will change to suit the terrain and the enemy, but one thing is always placed above all others - ferocity.

 

No emphasis on artillery? No favoring of heavy equipment? No unknown grudge against particular Tyranids, which they refuse to speak of and who recently passed through a particular area of space GW doesn't talk about?

 

They feel more like ordinary Space Marines than anything else - and while that's not bad, I'm getting the expression they're supposed to feel like Dwarves in this part.

 

Although broken-hearted at the loss of his mentor, the Stonebound’s success where the Red Sabres had sadly failed encouraged Jorn Rockhammer, giving him confidence that the changes he had made to the organization and performance of his Chapter had been wise.

 

This honestly make me think Jorn's a bit of a dick.

 

"The Great Khan saw in the tome written by his brother Primarch words of true wisdom. Who are we, then, to doubt those words?"

Chapter Master Jorn Rockhammer of the Stonebound.

 

Well, you doubt your bloody mentor, so I don't know...

 

For example, much like the sons of the Khan from which they descend, the Stonebound always break up recruits taken from the same clan and induct them into different Companies, thereby promoting a strong sense of unity throughout the Chapter - irrespective of which Kagaran clan a Marine comes from, he is now Stonebound, evermore. Also, the White Scars' attitude regarding internment within a Dreadnought continues to hold much weight among the Stonebound, and many Chapter brethren see the hulking machines as nothing more than walking tombs. However, this is not to say that the Stonebound have no Dreadnoughts. Over the course of many centuries, a not inconsiderable number within the Chapter have become more comfortable with the ancient weapons, and see the opportunity to continue to serve the Emperor as one of ‘the Ironbound’ as a great honour.

 

Again - being White Scars is not helping the theme. It's hindering it.

 

In homage to their parent chapter, the Stonebound named their First Company the Redshields. Members of the Redshields are usually ancient marines; long-bearded, grizzled warriors who combine the wisdom of countless battles with ferocious skill-at-arms. Marines in the First Company paint their pauldrons a deep, rich red and each Veteran is gifted a finely crafted red shield. These shields are commonly decorated with personal heraldry, as well as badges and honours recognizing a Marine’s individual achievements. When a member of the Redshields dies his shield is hung on the outer walls of the Fortress-Monastery; from a distance it appears that the Ka’hagul is anointed in the blood of these heroes.

 

Actually, you haven't once mentioned the importance of beards...at least, not that I noticed. Fix this immediately! :P

 

"You leave your humanity and your family in the past - they no longer matter. You are The Emperor's now, and you are our brother."

Apothecary H'rad Thunderskull.

 

Thunderskull is a silly name. :P And 'The Emperor' should be 'the Emperor'.

 

"Your enemies are about to embark upon the road to the afterlife. It is only common courtesy to inform them beforehand."

Sergeant Garant Stonehearth of the Tenth Company.

 

I think changing "common courtesy" to "courteous" might make it sound a little more Dwarven.

 

Also, a good battlecry is an excellent way to close an IA. Sums the chapter up in a few words. The Iron Warriors probably have the best out of anyone.

 

* * *

 

I'm going to seem like a picky bastard...

 

Anyway - the essential dwarvishness still isn't being realized until the later pages. They seem like a generic pseudo-tribal-feudal population until the Beliefs section - and that's not good, I'm thinking. We need to plunge into dwarvishness from the start and enjoy a gentle swim. While you should be careful not to drown us in it, you should also ensure that we get wet from the outset. We're not really getting that at the moment. Well, I'm not.

 

I'd strongly recommend their being Imperial Fists successors - it would fit much better and allow a more natural progression to what the Chapter is today. You could spend less time justifying and more time explaining. It also would set up a different set of expectations at the outset - being told that a Chapter is a White Scars successor creates a lot of expectations which then need some justification.

 

They're not a bad Chapter. But they're not very good at being Dwarves at the moment (or at least, the presentation of their Dwarvishness needs a little more work). As-is, things don't feel very Dwarven until fairly late in the IA - and I honestly don't think it ever really blossoms out to the point where you could look at them and say "Yup. They're Dwarves."

 

Also, not once did you use the word quaff. Tsk tsk.

 

If it's any consolation, you're actually doing a lot of things right. I'm just not sure they're the right things to be doing right, if you follow.

[Ace Debonair]

Captain D'ain Maurak looked into the single eye of the ancient marine who had called into question the honour of his chapter. Picking up the iron gauntlet, he considered his words carefully. "Your armour tells me you have seen much battle, my brother. But the valour and deeds of my chapter will not be questioned!" D'ain stood proud and tall, crashing his hand againt his chest, accompanied by the rustling jingle of his mail hauberk. "We are the Stonebound - let me tell you of our saga!"

 

I don't like this. Not sure why. Just feels...badly acted.

Ok. That didn't make it into my Librarium-submission anyway, so that's not a problem, per se.

 

 

An idea which occured to me - what if they're reclaiming a lost 'Dwarven' hold? Either Squat or Space Marine would work, but it's very Dwarven either way. Shades of Moria and the Mountain. Starts the IA out with the right attitude. You could do some serious Hobbit parallels, if so inclined. Dare you to redo the Battle of Five Armies. ;)

Also, Baines makes me think of Amanda Bynes, which just makes me distracted. And isn't very dwarfy, in any case. In any way. I'd recommend a slightly more dwarven name. Or at least more grimdark.

Why would he have a dwarfy name if he's not from Kagara? If you must know the name is derived from the Simpsons character MacBain. I like the idea of the Stonebound taking over a lost fortress, though... might have to do something about that.

 

Say 'The Emperor' rather than "Him", I'm thinking. Feels more natural.

Good point.

 

Where's the Dwarf? This reminds me more of the Salamanders than of anything else.

 

Being nomadic really hurts the Dwarvishness. Maybe if they were journeying from fortress to fortress. But I think you might be better with them just living in fortresses and coming out to farm and stuff in the winter. Flat-out migrating just isn't that Dwarven, IMO.

 

Nomadic hurts the dwarvishness but does lean a bit more towards the people that might be preferred by White Scars successors, doesn't it?

 

I'd like some character insight into the home world along with all this - this is a lot about how they live, but not who they are. The whole section has something of this problem - it's a fairly lengthy explanation of how the people live, but doesn't give us much insight into who they are (or how the Chapter fits into that).

 

The people are most assuredly not as interesting as the world around them. I'll have a go at fixing that.

 

It feels odd for them to adopt such un-White-Scarsy solutions. Or to withdraw to a fortress in any case...remember how the White Scars fought at the Siege of Terra. I'd see some of them holding the fortress, but I'd expect the rest to range outside, harrying the besieging Orks.

 

Yeah, that is a better idea. That's also where (in this instance) a lot of the losses could come from, perhaps...

 

I must ask...why bother to have them be White Scars successors? You end up having to change their character a lot to get them appropriately Dwarven (and I'm not sure it's worth the effort). Dorn feels like a more natural fit for this sort of thing - has the appropriate tenacity etc.

 

The geneseed issue is really becoming that - an issue. If I do change them, it'll be to Salamanders, though, as I reckon there's enough DIY-Dorn to outnumber the Ultramarines.

 

Also, as people do keep bringing up, geneseed doesn't always indicate combat style. It'd be like making all Ultramarines successors totally codex-adherent chapters. This isn't neccesarily an argument against changing the geneseed, but it is something I've kept in mind.

 

I'll probably write two versions of this later, one with Scars geneseed and one with Salamanders. I'd hate to change it, but it won't be the first overhaul these guys have had.

 

Regarding the poem:

Yes, I know I wrote half the stuff I'm critiquing here. I was wrong. But I'm totally right now. :)

I was a bit bewildered to see you admonishing me for your choice of words, I must admit. But how I did chuckle when I read that last bit.

 

Again, this doesn't feel like a good fit with the White Scars.

True. But it does fit with the Dwarvishness. Trying to do both at the same time is very hard, although it does conjure up images of bikes with anvils in the side-cars for people to forge on the move with.

The thing about successors is that they can (and are probably meant to) be different from their parent chapters, although I'll concede that in this case it grinds a bit. I'll try and think of a way of incorporating aspects of both that isn't silly.

 

Paragraph breaks are not just something that happens to other people, you know. :P

I have my evidence. Where's yours? :)

I'd wonder whether you should make it clear that in many cases this forging is symbolic - most Space Marine equipment isn't the sort of stuff you can make on an anvil.

Yep. I really should've clarified that.

 

Stop giving everything funny names. One or two per IA is fine, but there's no need for these to be anything but grudge-stones. Grudge always seems to have overtones of pettiness (at least to me), so another term might be an improvement, but if not, fair enough.

You know, I am so sure I'd edited that out. I guess that slipped through the edit. ;)

 

This jars with the introductory paragraph and that sidebar about the feast - if they're so taciturn and they keep to themselves so much, why do they keep quaffing with everyone they see?

The sidebar that didn't make it into the IA, you mean?

Also, if you mean the opening bit with Dain in it, don't worry about that too much - that'll go in the Librarium edition.

 

Equally - they now only quaff a good bucket of ale when the grudge-stones are broken. These instances are not commonplace.

Unless I've botched it further and left the other quaffing in.

 

Your quotes feel a little too excitable. Calm down.

Also, while I love a good stone simile as much as the next man, this one isn't exactly wowing me.

I had a rough idea for a better quote anyhow. I'll try and work it in and make it a bit more subdued.

 

No emphasis on artillery? No favoring of heavy equipment? No unknown grudge against particular Tyranids, which they refuse to speak of and who recently passed through a particular area of space GW doesn't talk about?

They feel more like ordinary Space Marines than anything else - and while that's not bad, I'm getting the expression they're supposed to feel like Dwarves in this part.

No copying my Red Lords, no. A grudge against tyranids I like, though. Excuse me whilst I kick myself for not thinking of that earlier.

 

Balancing Dwarvish and Space Marines is tough. Tougher still when the Space Marines you're balancing are White Scars. I seem to be putting the dwarf bits where the space marines should be and vice-versa. And if I swap them around, I suspect I'll be guilty of the exact same offence. This is cause for much meditation and careful thought.

 

This honestly make me think Jorn's a bit of a dick.

Why?

 

Well, you doubt your bloody mentor, so I don't know...

Captain Baines is hardly the equal of a Primarch, wouldn't you agree?

 

Again - being White Scars is not helping the theme. It's hindering it.

A painful truth, but a truth nonetheless. More cause for serious thought.

 

Actually, you haven't once mentioned the importance of beards...at least, not that I noticed. Fix this immediately! :P

Everyone in the first company has them... doesn't that imply they are the sign of a great warrior? ;)

 

Thunderskull is a silly name. :P And 'The Emperor' should be 'the Emperor'.

I'll change it. But I'm of the same mindset as Ferrata that the 'The' in 'The Emperor' should be capitalised, and it will remain thus.

 

I think changing "common courtesy" to "courteous" might make it sound a little more Dwarven.

Also, a good battlecry is an excellent way to close an IA. Sums the chapter up in a few words. The Iron Warriors probably have the best out of anyone.

Consider it changed as soon as the next update rolls around.

And the IW do indeed have a great battlecry.

Unfortunately, nothing I've come up with comes even close.

 

I'm going to seem like a picky bastard...

Anyway - the essential dwarvishness still isn't being realized until the later pages. They seem like a generic pseudo-tribal-feudal population until the Beliefs section - and that's not good, I'm thinking. We need to plunge into dwarvishness from the start and enjoy a gentle swim. While you should be careful not to drown us in it, you should also ensure that we get wet from the outset. We're not really getting that at the moment. Well, I'm not.

 

I'd strongly recommend their being Imperial Fists successors - it would fit much better and allow a more natural progression to what the Chapter is today. You could spend less time justifying and more time explaining. It also would set up a different set of expectations at the outset - being told that a Chapter is a White Scars successor creates a lot of expectations which then need some justification.

 

They're not a bad Chapter. But they're not very good at being Dwarves at the moment (or at least, the presentation of their Dwarvishness needs a little more work). As-is, things don't feel very Dwarven until fairly late in the IA - and I honestly don't think it ever really blossoms out to the point where you could look at them and say "Yup. They're Dwarves."

 

Also, not once did you use the word quaff. Tsk tsk.

 

If it's any consolation, you're actually doing a lot of things right. I'm just not sure they're the right things to be doing right, if you follow.

 

Heh, let me quote myself from a few minutes ago.

 

To be honest, I'm no longer actually worried if people don't pick up on the dwarfishness. It's a bit stronger-flavoured, but I'll be happy if people come away with the impression of 'subterraenean smiths' like Apothete did.

 

As I said earlier, I'm not likely to jump on the IF successor bandwagon. They might have the best colour scheme out of the 1st founding loyalist legions, but there's enough of 'em as it is. If I change geneseed, the Stonebound'll be grumpy Salamanders rather than IF.