Index Traitoris: The Nephilim

[Walter Payton]

Do not turn Liber in to a place with name calling. It is okay to disagree with people. It is fine to have an argument. It is not however acceptable to start calling people names. - Ferrata

 

 

Sorry. It won't happen again.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Brother-Captain Alecto

[Ace Debonair]

I thought it was a bit much, but I didn't know where to stop, so I kept writing until I was done. So you think I should just leave it at names and leave the fleshed out Môrgwath and the Túani clans?

 

I suspect that might be the best path forward.

Give it a try and see how it looks. You can always change it if it doesn't sit well with you. :cuss

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Cool. ;)

Couple of things though.

 

 

Each clan is broken up into several tribes, all loyal to the clan. A Naergoni’s loyalties lie to tribe first, then clan.

 

I'd have thought it would be clan first, since that is the larger, more important group.

 

The Túani clan is boasts the largest warriors on Naergon. Their great feasts and festivals are known to last for weeks on end. The Túani’s warriors are slow, but powerful brutes, clad in heavy army and wield massive two-handed glaives. When not at war, the Túani are content to drink, feast and make merry until the seasons change and the tribes are forced to migrate. The patron daemon of the Túani is Túg’Goeol’Uanui. Various commanders of the Nephilim monitor the Túani for potential recruits.

 

Clad in heavy armour (without the 'u' if you're American) and wielding rather than wield.

 

I'll be honest, I don't think you need to detail the tribes quite this much. Or rather, not all of them. Maybe just mention the names, then explain the stuff about the Môrgwath and the Túani clans. I don't think the others would really add anything to an IA, but I might be wrong on this issue.

 

 

Another thing: Are you sure you know what Glaives are? Or rather, how they are used? They aren't pikes or spears, they are meant for quick movement with long reach. Having them wielded by massive brutes that move at the speed of a snail and the finesse of a rhino defeats the purpose.

 

I would reccomend changing that to halberds, which are perfect for what your going for.

[Walter Payton]

If one Sister can fall, so can others. I'm standing by that.

 

If one Chapter can fall, so can others. Therefore the Imperium should exterminate them all as a precaution. See the flaw in the logic? :(

 

Can does not imply will. Sisters certainly can fall (we know that from the one who did), but that's not a guarantee that others have or will. It just creates a precedent.

 

 

That argument makes no sense. What you are doing is adding an argumentative progression that no one mentioned. If one chapter can fall, then yes so can others. If one Sisiter can fall, then saying that others can is not an illogical progression. Adding the comment about exterminating chapters is. You consistently say that people must obey the fluff to the letter, or ignore it completely in your posts. Why? It is not your divine mandate to tell us that we can't have a fluffy army if we break, and in this case it is not really breaking, more bending, the established canon. After all, there is a canon justification for fallen Sisiters (Daemonifuge and Ciaphas Cain). Admittedly it is not a very good one, but it is a justification nonetheless. If you can justify something with your own fluff, provided that it doesn't directly break the established canon, i.e, saying, 'my primarch is the Emperor', or 'my Necrons fight for Slaanesh, and their lord is actually Fulgrim's girlfriend, who is actually the Autarch of Iyanden in a suit', then it is fine. In this case, The Nephillim is simply capitalising on a grey area in the fluff. From what you seem to say in your posts, you object to people doing that. Why?

 

@Ferrata: Sorry, mate, I was being a prat and a troll and got a bit carried away. It won't happen again.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, I should point out in fairness that the author of this IA has developed his 'Devadasi' in a different way which does not spark conflict with anyone, and has essentially kept everything you would want from fallen Sisters of Battle but without any controversy.

 

No point waking up an argument that has already been resolved, eh? :)

 

Anyway - I'm looking forward to seeing the tribes added to the existing IA. Good stuff!

[Grand Master Tyrak]

In this case, The Nephillim is simply capitalising on a grey area in the fluff. From what you seem to say in your posts, you object to people doing that. Why?

 

Because often people don't treat it as a grey area. They crystallise it into a definite one or the other, something I've tried to cover in my Inquisition article for the DIY guide. Play with grey areas if you want, but keep them grey areas so that other people can use them. The Nephilim didn't originally have that, it has now been changed into a more grey format, and as a result I've not felt the need to comment on it - he's now playing exclusively with his own fluff and not treading on anyone else's toes.

 

Job done, problem avoided, just like Ace said. :)

Edited February 7, 2010 by Grand Master Tyrak

[The Nephilim]

Lol. I love the intensity in which we all get up in arms about our games. It doesn't just extend to 40k. For example, I stopped supporting Wizards of the Coast because of what they did to the Forgotten Realms with 4th Edition.

[The Nephilim]

I'm all for an abbreviated section on the clans, but why those too in particular?

[Ace Debonair]

One of them is relevant to the Devadasi, and the other one is the primary source of recruits for the Nephilim themselves. :mellow:

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I quite like the concept I've seen... The idea that although they are traitors, they are still noble in the sense of art and culture.. lthough that eventual falls away right?

[The Nephilim]

One of them is relevant to the Devadasi, and the other one is the primary source of recruits for the Nephilim themselves. ;)

They recruit form all the clans, but the Túani are the ones that get the most attention. Big badass warriors made bigger, faster, stronger? Yes please.

 

I quite like the concept I've seen... The idea that although they are traitors, they are still noble in the sense of art and culture.. lthough that eventual falls away right?

No, Juan. Think of them as the Yang (The Nephilim) to their original Yin (Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children). Their original art would have compared to Michelangelo or Leonardo. Now their art is along the lines of H.R. Gieger or Luis Royo.

 

The Nephilim are the Joker to Batman, the Dr. James Moriarty to Sherlock Holmes, and so on. They are insidious, intelligent, calculating evil.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I quite like the concept I've seen... The idea that although they are traitors, they are still noble in the sense of art and culture.. lthough that eventual falls away right?

No, Juan. Think of them as the Yang (The Nephilim) to their original Yin (Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children). Their original art would have compared to Michelangelo or Leonardo. Now their art is along the lines of H.R. Gieger or Luis Royo.

 

The Nephilim are the Joker to Batman, the Dr. James Moriarty to Sherlock Holmes, and so on. They are insidious, intelligent, calculating evil.

 

Oh no I get that, what I meant was that it has the essence of the noble cultured artist.. Until you see the form that art takes.

 

The total warp of the ECs as they were pre-heresy is predictable I believe, but you've done it in such an understated way it works really well.

[The Nephilim]

Thanks, Juan. I'm a big fan of the mindset, "less is more." I don't believe I should have to spell everything out for the masses. Especially when it comes to Slaanesh. The Dark Prince is much more than tits and lewd acts. I equate him to the modern Lucifer. Tempation, seduction, subtle promises, etc.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Thanks, Juan. I'm a big fan of the mindset, "less is more." I don't believe I should have to spell everything out for the masses. Especially when it comes to Slaanesh. The Dark Prince is much more than tits and lewd acts. I equate him to the modern Lucifer. Tempation, seduction, subtle promises, etc.

 

I've read a fictional account of the Fall of Lucifer and he tried to corrupt his brother Gabriel not through offers of power but through love.

 

The trouble is people only tend to see Chaos as unsubtle, like Khorne, but I think there really is a lot of scope for more than just, as you say, "tits and lewd acts".

[Ace Debonair]

One of them is relevant to the Devadasi, and the other one is the primary source of recruits for the Nephilim themselves. :P

They recruit form all the clans, but the Túani are the ones that get the most attention. Big badass warriors made bigger, faster, stronger? Yes please.

 

Excellent - that's what needs to come across. Only in more sentences. :lol:

 

The Dark Prince is much more than tits and lewd acts. I equate him to the modern Lucifer. Tempation, seduction, subtle promises, etc.

 

What a way with words you have, Nephilim. :P

 

Truth to tell, I always thought that would have been a better angle for the Emperor's Children in the first place. Although how the guitars would fit in is beyond me.

[The Nephilim]

Truth to tell, I always thought that would have been a better angle for the Emperor's Children in the first place. Although how the guitars would fit in is beyond me.

I feel the same way, which is why I wrote in the Nephilim's hate of Fulgrim. I was so disappointed with him in Fulgrim. He was a putz. It was interesting to see the fall of the legion as a whole, but in the end, Fulgrim was a let down.

[Walter Payton]

I feel incredibly sorry for Fulgrim. He made mistakes, stupid ones, but now he faces eternal torment. Poor guy

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Fulgrim is... Well, i can't say as I'd be banned most likely.. :rolleyes:

[Walter Payton]

Fulgrim is a moron. But he is a likeable moron.

[The Nephilim]

Fulgrim is a moron. But he is a likeable moron.

I imagine Fulgrim as a retarded cousin that gets addicted to heroin. You still feel bad for the guy, but they were his choices.

[Walter Payton]

Excellent analogy. But how many retarded cousins can kill an Avatar with their bare hands?

[The Nephilim]

In the avatar's defence, he was only Eldar.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The Dark Prince is much more than tits and lewd acts. I equate him to the modern Lucifer. Tempation, seduction, subtle promises, etc.

 

 

Ahh... another brother, or so I assume?

 

On Fulgrim: Well, he did screw himself over, but in his defense, he never really had a chance. As mighty as the primarchs are, they are nothing in comparison to Greater Daemons, who have all the subtlety and wisdom borne of an eternity of practice.

 

BTW, you read what I said about Glaives and Halberds, right?

[The Nephilim]

The Dark Prince is much more than tits and lewd acts. I equate him to the modern Lucifer. Tempation, seduction, subtle promises, etc.

 

 

Ahh... another brother, or so I assume?

 

On Fulgrim: Well, he did screw himself over, but in his defense, he never really had a chance. As mighty as the primarchs are, they are nothing in comparison to Greater Daemons, who have all the subtlety and wisdom borne of an eternity of practice.

 

BTW, you read what I said about Glaives and Halberds, right?

Yes. I've been a Slaaneshi devotee since my induction into 40k. I've read every single bit of Slaaneshi fluff I can get my hands on. From Slaves of Darkness to Daemonworld, I've read it all.

 

As to the glaives and halberds, I'll change the warrior description. I'm using glaives as a theme in my army.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Not what I meant, but thats alright ^_^

 

I completely understand, as I personally love Glaives too. However, it just didn't fit with the description you put with the... one tribe. Can't remember their name of the top of my head :nuke: