Can't...kill..Ghaz....

[Brutis]

Title says it all.

My buddy runs him & 9 mega-armoured nobs every game.

I can cope with all his orks except this squad.

Any ideas?

[I am Legion]

Orks are a hit and miss army. They either do no damage or they rip you to shreds. I'm a fan of meltaguns, flamer, and terminators in LRs. MM attack bikes work well against anything. I can't tell you how many times those things changed the game for me.

[Ravenger]

what about devastators or a vindicator to soften up that squad.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Hail Brutis,

I trust you'll enjoy your time here on the B&C.

 

Don't tell your mate but MegaNobz aren't as good as Killa Kanz or Nob bikes.

 

Baals may be generally better than Vindis (that is the impression Jawaballs gives me) but in this case Vindis will insta-kill them.

 

Remember that these Super-units only do damage in cc. So take out the Battlewagon. Hit it with as many MM, LC and AC shots as you can, as early as you can.

 

There is no shame in moving and running your units away from a circa-500 unit. I am being serious. Don't let your pride or your mates teasing force you into 'bravado'

 

When you commit to cc, make sure it is done with many units. Be coordinated.

 

Dreads, especially your Furiosos (Ven & Death Co.) strike at i4 and insta-kill MegaNobz. :devil:

[Morticon]

Ouch. Thats a big game.

Luckily they cant get a regular painboy in that nonsense.

 

Firstly, nothing will take that head on. You need to whittle it down.

Secondly, there are a few ways you cna deal with Ghaz.

 

One is Mephiston.

 

Two is a big DC with Chappy (or Dante)

 

and Three is a chunky VAS with Corbs (Dante helps too obviously).

 

 

That being said, as mentioned already dont take this head on. Whittle it down first.

Also, Vindicators are MAGIC against this kind of unit.

[Donkeycow]

when i face orks i just close my eyes, grit my teeth, charge... and hope for the best. i go with a CC heavy army and i find this can work, just use your mobility to your advantage, choose your fights, and try not to get overwhelmed. but fire support as mentioned IS a necessity! cause even if you have a good number of CC elites, 80 boys is still a massive challenge! also a suggestion for that one unit, try charging it with both the death company WITH a chaplain, AND a VAS with at least 2 power weapons and a melta gun. you should be able to do a good amount of damage before he is able to strike back with any real effectiveness!

[Wildfire]

Multi-melta attack bikers. Pop the battlewagon, then pop the nobs.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

One is Mephiston.

 

Two is a big DC with Chappy (or Dante)

 

and Three is a chunky VAS with Corbs (Dante helps too obviously).

I dont like any of these ideas as an ork player and as a Blood Angel PLayer. 5 Terminators +Dante or Corbulo should do well enough. Each Pfist attack gets a nob and then Gaz gets pegged by No Retreat or gets run down if he hasnt waaaghed. 4 Terminators on the charge. 12 PFist attacks. 9 Hit with Rerolls about 8 dead Mega Nobs = 16 Wnds to combat Res.

[Thantoes]

One is Mephiston.

 

Two is a big DC with Chappy (or Dante)

 

and Three is a chunky VAS with Corbs (Dante helps too obviously).

I dont like any of these ideas as an ork player and as a Blood Angel PLayer. 5 Terminators +Dante or Corbulo should do well enough. Each Pfist attack gets a nob and then Gaz gets pegged by No Retreat or gets run down if he hasnt waaaghed. 4 Terminators on the charge. 12 PFist attacks. 9 Hit with Rerolls about 8 dead Mega Nobs = 16 Wnds to combat Res.

 

Well aside from the fact that you cant run down units with Terminators, what you have there is a mutually assured destruction scenario. Remember that you will be striking at the same time as those meganobs and they have powerklaws too. You hit 5 nobs and they strike back with what? 3 attacks. Your whole unit is most likely going to die, leaving ghazgull alive and well and able to go do the killy on otherthings.

 

The way I do it is to hit the squad with multiple MM and vindi shells. Thin them out down to around 3 or 4 at Max and then hit them with High initiative PW/LC models with a chaplain. Does the trick.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I´ve gotten decent results with a DC Venerable Furioso on the charge. The only thing one should take care about is that Ghazkull doesn´t uses his special Waaagh! in that turn, as it gives him a Invulsave equal to his armour save, means 2+. At least that´s what an Ork opponent told me when my Furioso walked in that mob.

 

Well, everything else has already been said. Lascannons and Multi-Meltas for the Battlewagons, Vindis for the nobs. Simple and easy.

 

 

Snorri

[D0dge]

have to agree that PF termies probably aren't the way to get rid of this. Thin them down with Baal Preds or vindi's and then I would hit them with LC termies or the DC. Really you need to guarantee as many wounds at initiative level as possible that ignore armour saves so PW's and rends. Really to guarantee it you are talking about a mid sized DC with chaplain on furious charge and LC termies on the charge in range of Corbulo for FC again. With chaplain rerolls to hit on the DC you are increasing their chances of rending or you move the chaplain into the termie squad in the movement phase so they get rerolls to hit and to wound. However all this means you are changing your list to one designed to counter this Ghaz list.

 

Personally I would try and pop is battle wagon as early as possible if he is mounted in one (OP doesn't say but I am assuming he is) and then ignore him as he lumbers across the table reaping through as much of the rest of his list as possible and then focus everything on him in the dying terns if you need to at all. The best way to play against a 500pt squad of doom I have always found is to make it irrelevant. Get him walking early then avoid him.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Simple answer (and one from personal experience): don't. If they're in a battlewagon make it priority number one, other than that leave them alone. Last time I faced a similar army, those orks were slow as tar. Its so easy just to stay out of their way, especially given how fast BA are. If you have spare shooting, point that his way. Tried to bin him with Mephiston but that didn't end particularly well, however he did have to use the special Waagh during his own turn in order to avoid losing him due to getting run down after combat. If you just stay out of his way and blast everything else you'll be fine - in objectives, that unit can only ever contest one objective, so go for another, and in kill points just remove everything else. I've always found that the best way to deal with a brutal unit like that is to leave it alone.

[Leonaides]

Second the make him walk strategy - 24" is a long way when you're always slow and purposeful... Even with a Waagh. Once you've got them out in the open, if you get the chance (and you dont need the shot elsewhere) try and drop a vindi pie-plate on the squad, jsut to cut the numebrs to something a bit more manageable just in case you have to take it out.

[Red Fury]

Plasma, it's the new melta. Especially with all the bugs running around it's time to load up on plasma. Plasma cannons and/or plasma guns in Tacs and up to three PP in a RAS.

 

Beat them up with whatever ranged shots you have (vindis, baals, plasma) After that, if they get the charge, you are dead. If you get the charge, then you have a chance using DC or PW/PF weapons (hopefully with Corbs nearby, but I don't run him personally so the DC is it). So really make sure you are in position to get the charge.

 

Keep your dreads away, far far away. If Ghaz gets a chance to swing with 7A on the charge...death.

 

I agree with ^ and make 'em walk.

 

-Fury

[Brother Nathan]

Generally agreed bit against nobs id say melta as it insta kills ^_^ So hit them with las melta and vindi and if your going to let a small unit get in their way a powerfist would at least take 1/ 2 out...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would look to exploit the weaknesses of Ghaz and his mega armored nobs. If you can pop their transport early that will really help a lot as the unit has Slow & Purposeful. Once they are footing it you can use mobility to beat them down. Remember that if they are mounted in a trukk or battlewagon this unit has a really big charge arc and it's going to be hard to play keep away. Trukk can move up to 13", 2" for disembarking, 6" for calling down the Waaagh to fleet then up to another 6" for the charge... 13" + 2" + 6" + 6" all adds up to total charge arc of 27", that's huge. Your opponent will probably use other units as a screen so it will take dedicated firepower to drop their transport early in the game.

 

I think the major weakness in this unit is the mega armored nobs, no invulnerable save and no Feel No Pain. Anything S8+ you can throw at them will quickly pop the nobs. If you can get in close when they are disembarked and soak them with a lot of meltas then charge them with a lot of power fists you should be able to vaporize all the nobs. Sure Ghaz is really hard to drop while he has the 2+ invulnerable save plus he has a lot of attacks so he is going to smash stuff but once he reverts back to his 5+ invulnerable save he can die pretty quick. He has Eternal Warrior so you can't force weapon him but lots of attacks that ignore armor saves in close combat can do it.

 

When I am up against Ghaz my main tactic is to bait him to hit a throw away unit so your stronger units can tear through the rest of the ork army. You don't want to go head to head with Ghaz and his nobz versus your expensive VAS. I will sacrifice my Death Company if it allows me to strand Ghaz away from the rest of my army. So basically you have to use your movement phases to win.

 

0b

[spiros14]

I would look to exploit the weaknesses of Ghaz and his mega armored nobs. If you can pop their transport early that will really help a lot as the unit has Slow & Purposeful. Once they are footing it you can use mobility to beat them down.

 

0b :cuss

if your explointing his weakness like that, whats more mobile than a land speeder with M.Melta. You can then melt them, and get a d.company to sneak up on them while he's trying to destroy the Speeder

[D0dge]

You can then melt them, and get a d.company to sneak up on them while he's trying to destroy the Speeder

 

I admire your optimism but I have rarely seen the DC sneak up on anyone. The opponents usual reaction is something along the lines of

 

"DIE DEATH COMPANY DIE!"

 

Before shooting the hell out of it!!

[Brutis]

These are some great ideas guys!

Thanks for the advice.

Here's what happens.

Normally he rolls in with the battlewagon.

That puts him 12" in, 18" if there's a road.

I can pop that in the first or second turn for sure.

Greenskins pile out.

Then he calls waagh & charges what?

18 inches?

His save goes invul. Eternal warrior so he can't be instakilled

And the waagh lasts for 2 turns?

 

It's gotten to the point where everyone in our club just WANT TO KILL GHAZ!

Thanks for bearing with my noobie questions.

Brutis

[chaplainmeliadus]

If you want to use allies, maybe a try Grey Knights. Psycannons will laugh at 2+ invulnerable save, and Daemonhunters' Force weapons don't inflict Instant Death; they still kill outright, which Gazghull isn't immune to...

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Well aside from the fact that you cant run down units with Terminators, what you have there is a mutually assured destruction scenario. Remember that you will be striking at the same time as those meganobs and they have powerklaws too. You hit 5 nobs and they strike back with what? 3 attacks. Your whole unit is most likely going to die, leaving ghazgull alive and well and able to go do the killy on otherthings.

 

The way I do it is to hit the squad with multiple MM and vindi shells. Thin them out down to around 3 or 4 at Max and then hit them with High initiative PW/LC models with a chaplain. Does the trick.

I did say + Dante/Corbs. You could easily do it with just a 10 man Tactical squad in there only to run down. Alternatively do it on the turn Gaz Waaaghs and make him take 11 at minimum 2+ Saves.

 

The 9 Nobs that were talked about in the initial post have 27 attacks. Hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s and Saved on 5+. About 11wnds before saves. 1 Unique model in the squad. 3 go onto a sergeant two on every over. So yes in all likely hood a very dead squad. But you payed 200pts for that squad and in return you killed about 350pts assuming a healthy mix of Kombi Weapons in the squad. And if you three a single Tactical squad or character in there. You would easily beat down the rest of the squad + Gaz even on a turn he Waaaghs.

 

I´ve gotten decent results with a DC Venerable Furioso on the charge. The only thing one should take care about is that Ghazkull doesn´t uses his special Waaagh! in that turn, as it gives him a Invulsave equal to his armour save, means 2+. At least that´s what an Ork opponent told me when my Furioso walked in that mob.

 

He can waaagh on an opponents turn as well ARgueably...

[igotsmeakabob!!]

One is Mephiston.

 

Two is a big DC with Chappy (or Dante)

 

and Three is a chunky VAS with Corbs (Dante helps too obviously).

I dont like any of these ideas as an ork player and as a Blood Angel PLayer. 5 Terminators +Dante or Corbulo should do well enough. Each Pfist attack gets a nob and then Gaz gets pegged by No Retreat or gets run down if he hasnt waaaghed. 4 Terminators on the charge. 12 PFist attacks. 9 Hit with Rerolls about 8 dead Mega Nobs = 16 Wnds to combat Res.

I have to agree with Bob here, sorry Mort. Ghaz eats Mephiston with the 2+ invulnerable, which he'll be popping when he sees that Meph is a-comin'.

[SamaNagol]

Kill the Battlewagon immediately.

 

Then drop Vindicator shells on them from afar.

[shatter]

And I'm back....

Dang Orks.

 

Now my buddy is running Boss Snikrot in a battlewagon with a deffrolla.

He outflanks in behind us and wrecks pretty much anything in his path.

Then the commandoes jump out the top & assault everything.

Questions.

1. Is this legal?

2. When he moves, he takes his 13" (red paint job) measured from the front of the hull. Question is: the deffrolla sticks out at least 2" from the hull. So he's hitting stuff 15" in from the edge. This is correct? Brb says to measure from the hull.

Ideas how to deal with this unit? He's running havok amongst my group.

I guess I need to get 15" in from every edge to get a chance to pop that sucker.

Gawd I hate orks......

 

I'd suggest starting a new thread, Mr. Necrothreadomancer. =)

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

You guys are going to an awful lot of trouble. The key to getting rid of Ghazkhull waiting for his WAAAGH to go away, or to get him on turn one. Knock 25% off (that's 3 nobs, you can kill 3 nobs with incidental fire) of whatever squad he is with and use fear of the darkness on him. Best to get him turn one since he can't Waaagh! that turn. You will probably only get away with this one time before your opponent gets wise that he should be left in reserve. If he is left in reserve, you still win; just play in your half of the table until he shows up and do the above. He can be killed, it's just hard.

 

If you have to feed him a unit or two, that's okay. A full squad of normal nobz is around 400 points with trukk and, if left alone, will kill many times their points in your army. If you have to cough up 300-400 points worth of gene seed, transport vehicles or just blood, then so be it. You can live with the loss, I promise.