Bug Hunting

[Koremu]

I'm not going to claim that the following is in any way exhaustive, but here are some early observations regarding the new Tyranid Codex.

 

First observation straight outta the wrapper is that things have been simplified and streamlined a LOT. There's a lot less mix and match biomorphing, so it's a lot easier to keep a handle on what the various different units can do.

 

There are also a lot more unit types.

 

A LOT of the power in the 'nid list seems to have moved from the Heavy Support section to the Elite section.

 

Synapse range no longer grants immunity to Instant Death, so blowing big holes in Tyranid Warriors with Vindicators is a valid plan. You can also Force Weapon stuff like the Carnifex, as the MCs Ld characteristic is no longer a default 10.

 

Overall, the 'nid Codex has moved in the direction of more wounds as a defensive measure, with Tyranid Warriors having 3 Wounds (and a default 4+ save). Invulnerable Saves are still rare in the 'nid codex - only the Zoanthrope has one (although it is 3+)

 

There's a lot more focus on unit spawning as a racial mechanic. Several types of beast are capable of spawning additional units of lesser Tyranid creatures.

 

The whole list relies a LOT on achieving a high degree of synergy between different unit types. Deep Strike and Reserve guidance is a major theme. The list also feels very much like the IG list in that you can see how a 'nid army can go through an entire game achieving very little in the way of meaningful damage on the enemy, and yet still score a strategic victory simply by virtue of manpower. it communicates the feeling of a general 'nid invasion very well.

 

Toughness 7 is completely out - the maximum available to them now is 6, anywhere in the list. On the other hand higher WS scores are more common, with some of the top units coming out with up to WS9.

 

Saves seem to have been generally cut or held still - 2+ saves are only available to Hive Tyrants and the most expensive Heavy Support choice, the Tyranofex. 3+ is the greatest that the Carnifex can get, which combined with Toughness 6 makes Carnifex and other MCs tempting Krak Missile targets.

 

There's a much wider range of Anti-vehicle units available to the 'nids now. Aside from the Zoanthropes, there are also Hive Guard who don't need LOS, and the Tyranofex has a STR10 Cannon with 2 shots. This last is the only one with a decent long range though. Zoanthropes also have an AP3 blast.

 

Mycetic Spores don't follow Drop Pod first turn deployment rules.

 

Everything hordey got more horde-like, generally cheaper.

 

Lictors can no longer assault on the turn they deploy.

 

Power Weapon equivalents are a lot more freely available to 'nids. Boneswords are Instant Death causing Power Weapons. Lash Whips cause anything in base-to-base to strike at Init1.

 

The Broodlord isn't as nasty any more, but as an upgrade character it's difficult to kill him off and he is quite capable or neutralising a "hidden" power fist in a unit thanks to a psychic power. I can see Genestealers being a very unpleasant assassination unit.

 

Pyrovores are NOT anything like Biovores. They have a Heavy Flamer, but their main place is in CC, as they have Power Weapon attacks and explode once you actually kill them. Watch out for them being partnered with Trygon for reserve strike advantage.

 

Hormagaunts are no longer beasts (but they are Fleet, and they do roll extra dice for running).

 

 

 

 

How to kill: Like the IG list, the 'nid 'dex presents a challenge in that the 'nid player can focus on one aspect of his list to the exclusion of others, rendering large portions of your force less than useful. Missile Launchers will definitely seem like a better idea for their flexibility in the face of this variability. Expect 'nid players to make use of their Move Through Cover (no longer universal in the list, but still prevalent) to compensate for their lack of Invulnerable Saves. If you know you are facing Hordes, Whirlwinds and Thunderfires are a good choice.

 

Heavy Bolters remain a good choice for hunting their harder Infantry, as do Heavy Flamers if you are brave.

 

There's not a great deal that changes in the overview of general tactics. Plasma is still good against 2+ saves, but as creatures with 2+ saves are all over 200 points there's a limit to how many you'll see on the tabletop. I suspect that 'nidzilla will become less prevalent.

 

I've undoubtedly missed lots and failed to properly assess more, so take this all with a pinch of salt.

[RayJ]

I've been looking over my copy of the codex as well, and I think our biggest threat is gonna be the Tervigon.

 

At a base cost for a around tri-las pred, you have a 6-wound, 6 toughness MC that pumps out 3d6 termagaunts a turn. What's more is that for each termagaunt squad taken in this list, the tyranid can buy one of these in Troops instead of HQ. Scoring MC with the possibility of 6 wounds, regeneration, and fell-no-pain (weighing in at about 205 points for those options)? This guy is gonna be a nightmare for mission objectives.

 

Other than that, I think managing the horde isn't gonna be too bad. Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes are so expensive that you won't see many of them. The Mawloc could prove troublesome, but is expensive as well. Pretty much be ready to strike hm down the turn he comes in, or he can just burrow away on you and explode your face when he comes back up.

[minigun762]

The early stuff I'm seeing seems that

Hive Guards, Zoas, Deathleaper and T-something MC as troops (name escapes me) will be the cores of many armies.

With those you have anti-LR shooting, anti-transport shooting, anti-psyker and a scoring MC that generates more Gaunts.

In alot of ways these 4 units provide the base utility a good list needs.

[DarkGuard]

Another thing to note is that the MCs in this Codex tend to be more on the expensive side, this is seen most in the points increase in the Carnifex. With the smaller bugs having been dropped in price, I think we could see more horde and mid-level armies than nid-zilla armies nowadays. Missile launchers, heavy bolters and plasma cannons (for versatility) are going to be the preferred weapons options, along with flamers.

 

Also, word of caution about double scything talons, especially on Monstrous Creatures (effectively Preferred Enemy on that model), the Hive Tyrants new Old Adversary which gives bug within 6" Preferred Enemy, which will see some Nid units being very frightening in assault. Also, Paroxysm is bound to cause problems, with a big WS/BS decrease not being very desirable.

 

Another thing to note is that the MCs in this Codex tend to be more on the expensive side, this is seen most in the points increase in the Carnifex. With the smaller bugs having been dropped in price, I think we could see more horde and mid-level armies than nid-zilla armies nowadays. Missile launchers, heavy bolters and plasma cannons (for versatility) are going to be the preferred weapons options, along with flamers.

 

Also, word of caution about double scything talons, especially on Monstrous Creatures (effectively Preferred Enemy on that model), the Hive Tyrants new Old Adversary which gives bug within 6" Preferred Enemy, which will see some Nid units being very frightening in assault. Also, Paroxysm is bound to cause problems, with a big WS/BS decrease not being very desirable.

[holanes]

Haven't had a chance to study the book yet but I have read a lot of the rumors and reviews and think that a real key to the tactics involved will be the whole T6 thing. This is interesting because it makes rapid fire devastating. While having low AP guns is great and all I think that the liberal application of dice rolling to the situation will do a lot of good.

 

I am thinking also that the flexibility of ML and Sternguard will be very useful.

[Koremu]

I've been looking over my copy of the codex as well, and I think our biggest threat is gonna be the Tervigon.

 

At a base cost for a around tri-las pred, you have a 6-wound, 6 toughness MC that pumps out 3d6 termagaunts a turn. What's more is that for each termagaunt squad taken in this list, the tyranid can buy one of these in Troops instead of HQ. Scoring MC with the possibility of 6 wounds, regeneration, and fell-no-pain (weighing in at about 205 points for those options)? This guy is gonna be a nightmare for mission objectives.

 

 

The early stuff I'm seeing seems that

Hive Guards, Zoas, Deathleaper and T-something MC as troops (name escapes me) will be the cores of many armies.

With those you have anti-LR shooting, anti-transport shooting, anti-psyker and a scoring MC that generates more Gaunts.

In alot of ways these 4 units provide the base utility a good list needs.

 

 

Yeah, I've been worried about the Tervigon myself. If you stay quite conservative on the points you can feasibly get 5 of them in 1500 points, with space left over for enough Zoanthropes to provide mobile synapse coverage and anti-tank. That list generates an average of 52.5 Termagaunts per turn as long as all the Tervigons are on the board and pumping out spawn. And that's in addition to however many gaunts you start with. That's a nasty prioritisation challenge, especially in Dawn of War.

 

Hive Guard have a nasty gun with a good ability, but a short range.

 

Deathleaper is an interesting case, because you really do have to use him carefully in order to get the full potential of his rules. I'm leaning towards caution generally in the use of Lictors, but for Deathleaper it's an absolute given. He is expensive and has to stay alive to justify his points cost, due to the way his rules work. Hunting him down is a pain in the backside as he has so many methods of disengaging.

 

 

Another thing to note is that the MCs in this Codex tend to be more on the expensive side, this is seen most in the points increase in the Carnifex. With the smaller bugs having been dropped in price, I think we could see more horde and mid-level armies than nid-zilla armies nowadays. Missile launchers, heavy bolters and plasma cannons (for versatility) are going to be the preferred weapons options, along with flamers.

 

Also, word of caution about double scything talons, especially on Monstrous Creatures (effectively Preferred Enemy on that model), the Hive Tyrants new Old Adversary which gives bug within 6" Preferred Enemy, which will see some Nid units being very frightening in assault. Also, Paroxysm is bound to cause problems, with a big WS/BS decrease not being very desirable.

 

 

Yeah, the power of the 'nid codex has definitely moved away from Heavy Support and towards Troops.

 

I'm very glad I have a Whirlwind painted and ready to roll, and I'm right now building a Typhoon/Heavy Bolter Land Speeder.

 

It's worth noting that Old Adversary gives prefered enemy to the whole brood as long as 1 member is within 6". That's very threatening in traditional Tyrant & Warrior + Horde armies.

 

However, Warriors being troops now does limit how much of a flood army you can build like that, as you run out of Troops choices.

 

Haven't had a chance to study the book yet but I have read a lot of the rumors and reviews and think that a real key to the tactics involved will be the whole T6 thing. This is interesting because it makes rapid fire devastating. While having low AP guns is great and all I think that the liberal application of dice rolling to the situation will do a lot of good.

 

I am thinking also that the flexibility of ML and Sternguard will be very useful.

 

 

I think the Assault Cannon will truly shine against the new 'nids.

 

 

Overall I think that the 'nid army design theory now is going to revolve around making armies that enhance and support with mutually beneficial co-operate powers. It's a nice flavourful style.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I agree with what has been said. There are a few opinions of mine that I have though:

 

I think that the Cyclone Missile Launcher will become the default Terminator heavy weapon over the Assault Cannon, because as has been stated most stuff has a 3+ Sv or worse with T of 6 or 4. The two shots will tear right through Warriors, Raveners, and will put a big dent in the larger Tyranid MCs.

 

Although Plasma will be nice, I think that with the loss of effective Eternal Warrior from synapse the risks oughtweigh the gains, especially when compared with other weapon options.

 

I also think that with Zoanthropes becoming the ranged anti-tank for the 'Nids, Land Raiders will be less common among us, and those of us who brave to take a LR against Tyranids will probably opt for the range of a LasRaider over a Crusader or Redeemer. The variants still have a place, but between the nasty CC abilities of the Tyranids and the Zoanthropes, they will be less effective against Tyranids.

[Giga]

As far as I saw from the rumors and some translated dex, the new nids aren't particularly scary.

 

They have a bunch of annoying new things, and they can actually destroy vehicles now, but apart from that they don't seem really scary as far as I'm concerned. Their MCs still die from the standard mixture of meltas and lascannons, their infantry is still slaughtered enmasse by rapid firing and flamers, and now they die from instant-death, too.

 

All those W6 MCs will be annoying when they're standing at range and shooting (thinking mostly of the terrofyx here, really), but the rest of them will just die to th/ss termies like all MCs do, and that's just fine.

 

Ah well, we'll know for sure soon enough.

[DarkGuard]

Anything to consider is that the Nids, despite having some nice shooty units, are still short ranged, with their longest range being 36", and most weapons only shooting as far as 12-18". Even the Zoanthrope's new Warp Lance is only 18", and it is in this short range that we can find advantage.

 

Keep the Nids at arms length for as long as possible, pour fire onto them in the first few turns and with the right target priority selections they should be less dangerous when they hit your lines. The Nids will still die fast to concentrated firepower. Of course, those infiltrating Stealers and units with Wings will of course try to prevent you from getting many shots off...

[Justicar Valius]

Anything to consider is that the Nids, despite having some nice shooty units, are still short ranged, with their longest range being 36", and most weapons only shooting as far as 12-18". Even the Zoanthrope's new Warp Lance is only 18", and it is in this short range that we can find advantage.

 

Keep the Nids at arms length for as long as possible, pour fire onto them in the first few turns and with the right target priority selections they should be less dangerous when they hit your lines. The Nids will still die fast to concentrated firepower. Of course, those infiltrating Stealers and units with Wings will of course try to prevent you from getting many shots off...

Your in for a nice suprise because my mate has just got his codex and says no more infiltrate for stealers!!! W00t.

He didn't say if this was for the elite stealers as well as troop stealers but its a good thing anyway IMO.

 

I told him tervigons are the best things out there and he says he didn't like them! (I'm in for a nice time)

[Lady Lictor]

So far I have yet to be impressed by the new 'dex. I mean, unless I missed something awfully big, there's a total of 8 -count 'em, EIGHT- new models that we don't technically have. Which means a lot more of "Ok, so is this one just a regular Zoanthrope or the special one?" "No, no, that's the special one. THOSE ones over there are normal ones." And that's just the one example; how many times do you think you'll hear a 'nid player tell you that isn't a regular lictor, it's the Deathleaper?

 

And the Tervigon is useless if we have to build our own, as I've been hearing we must. What will I do, buy another trygon, 'fex, AND hive tyrant just for the bits to make a tervi? I think not.

 

Points-wise, 'nids aren't doing to hot. All our nasty models that kept us alive are far to expensive (you're telling me a SPINEGAUNT is now more expensive than a FLESHBORERGAUNT is?!?!?), and the overall cost is just not looking useful.

 

Alright, so I'll give you that from a business standpoint, GW just did themselves a miracle. I have to personally overhaul my entire army to fit into this new codex, cause clearly, 'fexes are no longer the BIG NASTY (CHEAP) BEASTS they once were. Only T6? No anti-instant death? Come on now, guys. Really?

 

@Justicar Valius:

Unless my codex is lying to me (which, I'll admit, Tzeentch does run rampant around here, so it's possible), original Stealers do indeed retain their Infiltrate capabilities (though they don't have to buy it anymore, which is nice). Ymgarl stealers, on the other hand don't enjoy that same advantage.

[minigun762]

As for Chaos counters to the Tyranid threat, here is what I'm thinking.

 

1) Oblits/Defilers/Vindicators will all be useful. Insta-gibbing warriors, wounding everything on 2's and thinning out the hordes. Personally I like the Defiler here best because its AP3 isn't a liability (I think 1 model can get a 2+ save?) and the extra range and decent CC ability helps.

2) Noise Marines could be more useful, providing mobile dakka to thin out the baddies.

3) With my CSMs, I'm going to keep my mix of Flamers/Melta/Plasma and Fists. These are the squads that will cleaning up after the heavies have started blasting.

4) I'm actually starting to doubt my DP against some of the bugs. I think the Tyrant will make you WS1 BS1 and Lash Whips mean you hit at I1. This means you'll have to be smart about what you're assaulting with it. I think that Tervigons will be prime targets.

5) Rhino walls for funneling troops will continue to be useful. Hell even hiding in a Rhino and dropping Flamer templates will be a smart idea.

6) For Zoas, I think its easier to try and stack basic wounds on them then try for the insta-kill. They are basically a 2 wound Marine to small arms so hit them with the dakka.

[DarkGuard]

Anything to consider is that the Nids, despite having some nice shooty units, are still short ranged, with their longest range being 36", and most weapons only shooting as far as 12-18". Even the Zoanthrope's new Warp Lance is only 18", and it is in this short range that we can find advantage.

 

Keep the Nids at arms length for as long as possible, pour fire onto them in the first few turns and with the right target priority selections they should be less dangerous when they hit your lines. The Nids will still die fast to concentrated firepower. Of course, those infiltrating Stealers and units with Wings will of course try to prevent you from getting many shots off...

Your in for a nice suprise because my mate has just got his codex and says no more infiltrate for stealers!!! W00t.

He didn't say if this was for the elite stealers as well as troop stealers but its a good thing anyway IMO.

 

I told him tervigons are the best things out there and he says he didn't like them! (I'm in for a nice time)

 

I have the Codex too, and sorry to break it to you, but Stealers definately have Infiltrate, even without a Broodlord. They also have Fleet, even with a Broodlord, so Stealers as a whole have just got nastier, especially as they are cheaper too.

[Koremu]

In some ways genestealers got nastier, but the removal of the Biomorph system now means that you can't have 4+ saves on Genestealers that are Troops. That's a big change to how effective they are.

 

Furthermore, they don't have Assault Grenades.

 

Also, the Broodlord is significantly altered - no more rolling 2D6 for armour penetration, no more Power Weapon attacks. In exchange they have 2 Psychic Powers, one of which can neutralise a "Hidden" Power Fist.

 

They are much more refined into assassination units now. With the Broodlord as an upgrade rather than an IC, their power is as a "fire and forget" opening unit.

 

Yrmgarl Stealer (an Elites choice) are another matter. But they don't have Broodlords.

 

Anything to consider is that the Nids, despite having some nice shooty units, are still short ranged, with their longest range being 36", and most weapons only shooting as far as 12-18". Even the Zoanthrope's new Warp Lance is only 18", and it is in this short range that we can find advantage.

 

The Rupture Cannon has a 48" range, but it costs a minimum of 265 points to field a Tyrannofex with one :/ and is BS3 only

[minigun762]

I think any Codex Army should really try to find the points for a Whirlwind. Its cheap and an answer to alot of what you will see.

[Giga]

I think any Codex Army should really try to find the points for a Whirlwind. Its cheap and an answer to alot of what you will see.

Naw, killing small bugs was never a problem for marines. Flamers do the business the best, which is why I think the new nids will actually make Vulkan lists more popular then ever.

[minigun762]

I think any Codex Army should really try to find the points for a Whirlwind. Its cheap and an answer to alot of what you will see.

Naw, killing small bugs was never a problem for marines. Flamers do the business the best, which is why I think the new nids will actually make Vulkan lists more popular then ever.

 

Well its not just the Gaunts, but also the Warriors and Genestealers that will be used. I forget what its called but one of the units seems to be able to generate a cover save (similar to Ork's KFF). The benefit here is that its always useful and its so cheap. Unless you have a need for that 3rd Heavy slot, I think its a very good buy. Flamers are good but they get 1 turn to fire, you can be thinning the horde from turn 1 with a Whirlwind.

 

A TFC will accomplish much of the same thing if thats what you like.

[Giga]

Whirlie would be pretty weak against warriors and genestealers. The warriors are T4 and they have 3 wounds, and genestealers are easily killed with rapid fire anyway.

 

What I've found out is that you usually don't need any more then one turn of proper rapidfiring/flaming to render a unit of ~30 T3 models considerably weaker.

 

As I said, whirlie is nice, but there are better things one can spend those points on.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Whirlwinds are nice due to their price and the versatility and range of their weapon.

Vengance warheads for Ymgarl 'Stealers and Guants out of cover, and Incendiary Castellan rounds for stuff in cover.

 

I don't think that every heavy slot should be filled with a 'Wind, but one is nice to back up a Vindicator or a Dakka Predator.

Well its not just the Gaunts, but also the Warriors and Genestealers that will be used. I forget what its called but one of the units seems to be able to generate a cover save (similar to Ork's KFF).

The Venomthrope.

[Koremu]

I wouldn't like to rely on Rapid Fire too much. The presence of move through cover makes cover saves the tyranids main compensation for their lack of Invulnerable saves. Lictors, both types of genestealer, terma and horma gaunts, and raveners will be well advised to make good use of cover. Add to that the Venomthrope and you've got issues.

 

Flamers are obviously a good idea, but as has been said, only very short ranged.

[Giga]

The way I usually deal with killy hordes (such as big mobz of ork boyz, or huge units of hormagaunts) is to unload my tacticals/sternguard into cover, rapid fire from there, and then let whatever survives assault me. I never use only one unit to do this, however, the rapidfirers usually are assisted by long-range shooting, heavy flamers from speeders, other similar unit etc.

 

As I understand, the new nids won't have access to frag grenades, which makes the entire "disembark into cover, rapid fire, wait for the assault" tactic even better.

[minigun762]

I don't think that every heavy slot should be filled with a 'Wind, but one is nice to back up a Vindicator or a Dakka Predator.

 

No, more then 1 is probably a waste or atleast subject to diminishing returns.

I think for the most part the Dakka Predator/Whirlwind and TFC are all equivalent units and perform the same basic job. I like the Whirlwind because its the cheapest way to get a cover ignoring shot and its a good multi-tasker against a variety of armies.

 

The way I usually deal with killy hordes (such as big mobz of ork boyz, or huge units of hormagaunts) is to unload my tacticals/sternguard into cover, rapid fire from there, and then let whatever survives assault me.

As I understand, the new nids won't have access to frag grenades, which makes the entire "disembark into cover, rapid fire, wait for the assault" tactic even better.

This is going to be a great way for Marines to handle things but I'd hate for it to be the only option available, especially since the big combo seems to be Tervigon + Gaunt horde and the best way to counter it is probably knock out the horde and then direct firepower or assault specialists against the MC.

 

Moving back to the army as a whole, I think smart people will start to bring Plamsa more and more. Not replacing Melta but Plasma is the best option for handling all those MCs considering the 2x range and 2x max shots.

TH/SS Terminators will continue to be common in Codex Marine lists I'm sure, but I would think about adding 1-2 Claw Terminators to help with the little guys, plus S4 with a reroll isn't useless against T6.

 

Power Fists will always be important, so don't leave them at home.

 

The single biggest change I see is that the multi-wound units will make it harder to rely purely on Melta weapons which have become so common to counter mech armies. You need to bring some of those multi-shot high S weapons to help with the big guys.

[Giga]

The problem with plasma is that it's just not cost-effective, IMHO.

 

It costs more then melta, wounds tyranid MCs on 3+, suffers from overheat, and is rapid fire so you can't charge if you use it.

 

One of the units I regularly run in casual battles is a command squad with 3 plasmaguns. Maybe I'm just a crappy plasma roller, but those 3 plasmaguns are surprisingly inefficient.

 

EDIT: Oh and, unlike melta, plasmaguns don't instant-kill warriors and nobz. This is a biggie.

[Koremu]

As I understand, the new nids won't have access to frag grenades, which makes the entire "disembark into cover, rapid fire, wait for the assault" tactic even better.

It's true, but watch out for Tyranid Warriors with Lash Whips. They force anything in base to base to strike at Init1.

 

EDIT: I also run a Command Squad with Plasma Guns, and find them very effective indeed. It's all about transporting them to the right place at the right time. 'nid AT fire is so short ranged that by the time they pop the Razorback, I'll already be where I need to be.

[Giga]

No problem. TH/SS strikes at I1, anyway. ;)

 

Genestealers, cc fexes, hive tyrants, and hormagaunts not having access to frag grenades is a biggie, though. It puts an even bigger emphasis on cover-hugging, or using nids's cover against them (for example, if a unit of hormagaunts are in terrain, it's smart to disembark at the edge of that terrain, rapid fire them, and then let them assault you with I1 attacks to get in some nice hitting before they even get to swing).