The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 The Chaos Codices never seem to provide the true account of events, just as Chaos itself never does. My version is actually unbiased as it comes. What I refer to is the events in novel form. Meaning the events as they actually happened, not some rough summary. Also, reread my last post. Calgar101 has typed the whole thing out. Up until this point The Emperor hasn't been doing anything but half-heartedly defending himself: Suddenly the battering stops. Through his good eye the Emperor sees a solitary Terminator has entered the room. The Marine charges towards the Warmaster, stormbolter blazing. Horus looks at him and laughs. For a moment he stands triumphant, allowing the Marine to see what he has done to his Emperor. The Emperor knows what is going to happen next, sees the gloating triumph on Horus' face. There is no trace of his friend left there. There is only a daemon driven by insane destructive fury. Horus turns his burning gaze on the Terminator and the Marine's flesh flakes away to reveal his skeleton, then even that is gone, reduced to dust. The Emperor sees the trap that has been set for him. He has been restraining himself, trying not to hurt one who had been as a son to him. Now he sees that there is no trace of his trusted comrade left. He knows that he must stop this semblance of his former friend and avenge the fallen Terminator. He must strike one deadly blow. He will get no other chance. He gathers every particle of his power, focuses it into a mighty bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun. He aims it as Horus, a lance of power destined for the madman's heart. Horus senses the upsurge of energy and turns to face the Emperor, a look of horror on his face. The Emperor lets fly. It strikes the Warmaster. Horus screams as destruction rains down on him, twisting and writhing in titanic agony. He strives frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles become more feeble as the lethal energies play over him. Driven by all the force of his rage and pain and hatred the Emperor wills Horus's death. He senses the forces of Chaos retreat, disengaging themselves from their pawn. As they do so sanity returns to the Warmaster. The Emperor sees realisation of the atrocities he has committed flicker across Horus' face. Tears glisten there. Horus is free but the Emperor knows he himself is dying and that the Powers of Chaos may once again possess the Warmaster and he will not be there to stop them. He cannot take that risk. Horus must die. Yet for a second, looking into his old friends face, he hesitates, unable to do the deed. Then he thinks of the slaughter that still goes on outside, may go on forever. Resolve hardens within him. He forces all mercy and compassion from his mind, empties it of all knowledge of friendship and coimraderie and love. His eyes lock with Horus and see understanding there. Then with full cold knowledge of what he is doing the Emperor destroys the Warmaster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 The Chaos Codices never seem to provide the true account of events, just as Chaos itself never does. That's like saying just cause you don't choose to believe the fact your uncle died makes it not true, the Codexes are fluff whether we like it or not. The only exception to this is the most recent Codex Space Marines, and thats only because it needs to be rewritten to be less of UM are so awesome, yeah! Important, people don't turn this into a UM bashing. Before that codex came out, I liked them, and I choose to hold them by their preMatWardcodex... image. Although I do agree that generally, Chaos tells lies, when the truth is crueler (think Darth Vaders episode three NOOOOO!!!! moment) they tell the truth. Anyways, this doesn't extend to the codexes. They are official. Fianl statement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 So you're going to go with the "LALALALALA! I can't hear you!" method then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemis360 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 You know what I find interesting about this discussion is that a lot of primarchs are coming through as being rather lack lustre and lacking in any notable combat talents. Everyones saying Magnus and Alpharius etc but hardly anyone's said Roboute Guilliman or Lion El Jonson or Ferrus Mannus FTW. So I'm going the other way, my team is as follows: Alpharius to confuse him with philisophical debate. Ferrus Manus to rugby tackle him with his metal hands. Jaghatti Khan to have someone to drive the Primarch-Mobile so they get to the fight on time. Mortarion to depress him and sap his will to fight. Omegon to bribe the Custodes to get lost for half an hour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Well, given that the Emperor appears to be capapble of being wounded (nearly killed by an ork warlord, and obviously Horus managed to injure him), and appears to not be very good at reading minds all the time (couldnt tell which Primarchs were Loyal) - I figure it would require entrapment to lure him to a place where a sufficiently large booby-trap has been set (something like a space ship engine going supernova would do the trick I reckon). So maybe You're looking at either Night Haunter or Alpharius/Omegon as the distraction/lure to get him to the target zone, and then either of them or Corax to set the trap (ruling out Dorn or Peturbo as it'd need to be a stealthy trap, not something more solid - I'm sure they can do fortification traps, but that might be too obvious to make the Emperor look for traps). Then you might need someone to engage him in the trap (and be willing to die in the trap too - no get-out clause) to stop him wandering out of it - which could entail Sang (martial prowess, willingness to sacrifice himself if neccesary, Angron - pure bloody-minded aggression, Mortarion - stubbornness and willing to push for victory to the point of death, or Dorn - stubborn and self sacrificial tendancies). Somthing like that might work. But a straight up fight, high-noon stylee? The Emperor would win. 1-on-1 he could take any of them, and he would have had ways of making sure he only took them on one-on-one. Hehe i have this mental image.... Sangerius: "This way father, i have something to show you!" Emperor: "I'm really very busy...." Sangerius: "It will only take a minute..." The Emperor opens the door to have a psychic nullifyer/bucket drop over his head. Angron, Russ and Khan jump him while Dorn, Perturabo, Mannus and Vulkan lay suppressing fire from assorted weapons. Emperor get the bucket off only to be sprayed in the face by a joker style gas sprayer designed like a flower from Mortarion. Curze boots him from behind while Fulgrim kneels in front. Stumbling, Magnus blasts him into an airlock and the twins close it. Lorgar holds him their and dies with him. Corax, who thought of the plan, is quietly happy. Guilliman, who wrote about how people should be feeling about the plan, and the exact foot stance of each participant, is upset no one actually stuck to the coreography. Horus, who had inspired them all to rebel, returns from the toilet. Horus:"What I miss?" On a slighlty more serious note, while the Emperor did defeat Horus, he was only getting attacked from one side. 3 angles at once? He only had 2 arms! Plus Horus was not nessaserily using psychic power in the dual, only chaos magic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Well, let's see... story-wise, I think it'd be appropriate if it took all 18(20?) Primarchs. Also, perhaps, power-wise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Yay! this is awesome. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Like I said, I am not wrong, the fluff contradicts itself. It supports me as well as you, which is why I would like you, and everybody else, to please end this subject. I know I look like a :D hole because I called you a fanboy, but thats tough, if you can't take it don't say anything about a subject that contradicts itself, especially when it is indeed biased by your strange assumption that the Emperor is infallible. Seriously? "Don't say anything about a topic that contradicts itself". On a board designed for us to do just that? In a universe that is know to be full of contradictions? I see no problems with him arguing his point, and if you have a serious problem with it DON'T post. Granted they did bait you into responding, but if you really want to just leave it, ignore the thread. So you're going to go with the "LALALALALA! I can't hear you!" method then? True, Thist's dealing with your points hasn't been amazing, but he did point out some valid issues that you too have simply ignored, namely that their is a lot of contradicting fluff and that even Collected Visions cannot be deemed to be the exact truth. Codex accounts, whilst accurate, can be expected to be baised, however the authors themselves are not the ones that will be writing the actual fight, so placing weight on them is also dubius Almost every account of what happened on the Vengeful Spirit has been different, and i have read more than one account that saw the Emperor pour his dying energy into that do or die shot. That doesn't mean your wrong, or that the story i read was wrong. To be honest, we're all gonna have to just wait till the book. I am however disappointed that what started out as a fun thread (and by some of us has continued to be fun) seem's to have decended into a trolling match. As a result, i'm suprised this thread asn't been melta'd yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergant k Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I think that Russ, angle face ( sanguiniss) and angron could take him on if he didnt use his powers other wise all of them together. I mean i no this sounds bad but im sure he thought abotu them maybe going bad and im sure htats why he made them all less powerful than him jsut in case. i mean the guy conquered millions of planets he wasnt dumb. Also when all the primarchs got scattered by chaos forces i might add dotn you think he was like " oh crap they might get all evil on me" i mean seriously he probably took into acount that somethign might go wrong. this was his lifes work he wsnt gonna let himelf get destroyed by it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 i just want to point out he whipped Russ in a 1v1 fight, and wasnt really trying. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 To be honest, we're all gonna have to just wait till the book. That's what I'm saying! Effectively, that book has ALREADY been written. The Horus Heresy novels are based on what is in Horus Heresy: Visions' little story summaries. The Final Battle though IS NOT just a little summary. It is one of a handful of actual short stories in the book and goes into detail down to exactly what was said and thought in the encounter by the participants. I am however disappointed that what started out as a fun thread (and by some of us has continued to be fun) seem's to have decended into a trolling match. As a result, i'm suprised this thread asn't been melta'd yet. We're not in a trolling match. We're just running into a common problem where a newcomer has read one thing and believes it to be the end all, be all account of the subject, when clearly this isn't so to those who have been around long enough to have read everything, and those who have taken part in this discussion a dozen times. This newcomer vs veteran problem has become frustratingly common the last couple years with the mass influx of new gamers GW has apparently snagged for themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 i just want to point out he whipped Russ in a 1v1 fight, and wasnt really trying. WLK Good point. But I do enjoy how everyone agrees that the 3 man team most likely to win is Russ, Angron and Sanguinius (even if all 20 together seems like it would still end in failure). Apparently most of us agree on them being the most capable in direct combat. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I think Vulkan could do it, but it would have to be guitar duel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I don't know where you said that we should wait to the book, although if you had said that I would have stopped everything I was saying and just nodded and agreed. The fluff contradicts itself, so a one final version to clear everything up will be perfect. I just hope its not biased in one direction or another. I finally agree with you, I didn't want to be a troll but thats how you came across to me. I apoligize. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I think Vulkan could do it, but it would have to be guitar duel. ^This. For great justice. Awesome mental image. Somewhere in this scenario Dethklok is involved and the Metalocalypse is finally happening. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I think Vulkan could do it, but it would have to be guitar duel. ^This. For great justice. Awesome mental image. Somewhere in this scenario Dethklok is involved and the Metalocalypse is finally happening. :) I see the Emprah as a Steve Vai/Stevie Ray Vaughn kind of player and Big Poppa V sounding like Jimmy Page mixed with Kirk Hammet. I also have it on good authority that he plays Bass like Phil Lynott. I think Russ could take him on drums. AN-I-MAL!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 well, of the three contests Russ took the Emperor on in, Russ beat him in drinking and eating. what isnt known is that the emperor refused a 4th contest, for while he feared no evil, the sight of Russ behind his drum set filled him with dread. i still stand by my original opinion of, no matter how many primarchs tried, if in a serious figh, the emperor would have tore them all apart. and the bit bit about the ork nearly killing the emperor. well, it must have been a really big ork. i think the txt got it wrong and it should have been mork against the emperor. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 well, of the three contests Russ took the Emperor on in, Russ beat him in drinking and eating. what isnt known is that the emperor refused a 4th contest, for while he feared no evil, the sight of Russ behind his drum set filled him with dread.i still stand by my original opinion of, no matter how many primarchs tried, if in a serious figh, the emperor would have tore them all apart. and the bit bit about the ork nearly killing the emperor. well, it must have been a really big ork. i think the txt got it wrong and it should have been mork against the emperor. WLK Agreed. There have been some big ass orks throughout the Milky Way. This one was so mighty and the WAAAGH! it inspired so huge that it had the Imperial Fists, Luna Wolves, AND Death Guard pinned and near defeat (IIRC) before the Emprah showed up...no...wait...that's the wrong story. Damn. Ok, I know of the story being referenced...but I'm hazy on its location. It's in HH collected visions, right? Anybody got a page number? I'm feeling laaaaaaazy. Also, perhaps we should all agree that this thread was an opinion thread, and realize we all have our own opinions. Given that the subject matter is fictional, let's not get too heated. And Thirst, quit apologizing! You cited your source and made your point. That's all you had to do. Don't apologize for it every other post, man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 And Thirst, quit apologizing! You cited your source and made your point. That's all you had to do. Don't apologize for it every other post, man. Pah, I have nothing against the Emperors Champion, although I wish he wouldn't say things like "yeah the Emperor needs to concentrate to not kill people" and just leave that. You know, give some fluff backing. Give me a good reason. Otherwise I see your Avatar and your Signature and I go "ah! Fanboy!" Which is a shame, making judgements like that isn't cool. Treating them like that is worse, I wish I didn't do it but somehow my anger always gets the best of me. Because I am such a nice guy :) I apoligize for being rude. Anyways.... On Topic : Chaos not involved (with the exception of psycic powers, I think that it would take all twenty primarchs to take him down (Because they are all supposed to be an aspect of Him). The primarchs would win, simply because they only have to kill the Emperor and He has to kill all of them. More bodies = better chance of success. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 i cant find it in the CV:HH, and i know i have read it before or i wouldnt have referenced it from the earlier post...but damn it Jim! where!? melodrama done. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Anyways.... On Topic : Chaos not involved (with the exception of psycic powers, I think that it would take all twenty primarchs to take him down (Because they are all supposed to be an aspect of Him). The primarchs would win, simply because they only have to kill the Emperor and He has to kill all of them. More bodies = better chance of success. I once played a game of Halo 2 online in a 2 vs 2 slayer match on the big construction zone map. well, my partner's connection flat out died on him, and over the next four minutes, five separate players on my opponent's friends list joined in, on the other team. So it was me against seven others. I won, 50 kills to 11. Now, the point here is not to brag on my part (although I was totally sweet in my unstoppable digital blood-thirst), the point is that I learned a valuable lesson: the more enemies, the more targets. See, while they had to track me down and find me (since I awesomely used elevation and ranged weaponry) as one single enemy, I could quickly find any one of them and put them down. By using the terrain and strategy, their numbers were nullified. Now, if I also had unparalleled psychic might, as well as undoubtedly immeasurable physical strength, speed, and martial skill, I probably would have done even better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I have never seen this ork vs the The Emperor thing people keep refering to. It makes me wonder WTH, because it makes no sense. Sicarius murders Warbosses no problem. Calgar can take on a whole warband for 2 days on his own. The Emperor beat Super Chaos Horus by thinking at him real hard once. So we know: The Emperor>Chaos Horus>Primarchs>Calgar>Sicarius>Warboss So a Warboss against The Emperor.......yeeeaaaaa....... What? That ork had to be channeling some sort of crazy Waaagh!!! powers and Gork and Mork to do that.... Pah, I have nothing against the Emperors Champion, although I wish he wouldn't say things like "yeah the Emperor needs to concentrate to not kill people" and just leave that. You know, give some fluff backing. Give me a good reason. Otherwise I see your Avatar and your Signature and I go "ah! Fanboy!" *shrug* I'm the Chapter Champion, what do you want from me? ;) My avatar is just my Emperor's Champion model and my signature is quotes from GW stuff. It's just handy to have the old 2nd edition quotes on hand for all the times when people complain about Matt Ward changing things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Anyways.... On Topic : Chaos not involved (with the exception of psycic powers, I think that it would take all twenty primarchs to take him down (Because they are all supposed to be an aspect of Him). The primarchs would win, simply because they only have to kill the Emperor and He has to kill all of them. More bodies = better chance of success. I once played a game of Halo 2 online in a 2 vs 2 slayer match on the big construction zone map. well, my partner's connection flat out died on him, and over the next four minutes, five separate players on my opponent's friends list joined in, on the other team. So it was me against seven others. I won, 50 kills to 11. Now, the point here is not to brag on my part (although I was totally sweet in my unstoppable digital blood-thirst), the point is that I learned a valuable lesson: the more enemies, the more targets. See, while they had to track me down and find me (since I awesomely used elevation and ranged weaponry) as one single enemy, I could quickly find any one of them and put them down. By using the terrain and strategy, their numbers were nullified. Now, if I also had unparalleled psychic might, as well as undoubtedly immeasurable physical strength, speed, and martial skill, I probably would have done even better. Also, 30 millennia of knowledge/experience/instinct/strategy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 lol, I think I might have under estimated the fall out such a question have produced. Having said that I think there has been some interesting positions. But yes this question was more driven towards opinion based ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 It's always the innocuous questions that ignite the firestorm of craziness. Not really sure why that is... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190080-how-many-primarchs-would-it-take-to-beat-the-emperor/page/3/#findComment-2254340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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