How Many Primarchs would it take to beat the Emperor

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

You mean aside from The Emperor still being alive and the whole one shot killing Horus thing?

One shot... again, the fluff contradicts itself. Codex : Chaos Space Marines says he was sliced up by the Emperor. If you want, I will give the exact wording.

 

"The Emperor is a Warp God (akin to the Eldar Gods)."

 

No, he is a psyker. Psyker. As in human* + psychic powers. Not a god.

 

There is a seperate theory saying that when a church was founded around the belief that He was a god, aall the untold octrillions faith combined to make a god in the warp, but thats post heresy.

 

"The Chaos Gods are a type of Warp God. They are not one and the same.

Warp Gods only live IN the Warp"

 

Sorry Emperors champion, but that is an EPIC FAIL of a misunderstanding. The warp is made up of everybodies emotions, the strongest emotions (rage, hope, despair, pleasure) become the strongest being in the warp (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh), and are so powerful that they can influence realspace, as well as having parts of themselves have sentience, albeit twisted, evil sentience.

 

"it has been expicitly stated that the Warp is not the Chaos Gods themselves. It is where they live. "

 

Both statements are wrong, they are part of it, and they can shape the stuff around them because of their vast strength.

 

I don't know where you are getting this notion of Warp Gods from...?

 

"Sorcery is the magic granted by the Chaos Gods."

 

Yes and no. I didn't fully explain myself back there, what I meant is that the Emperor drew power from the Warp, and the Warp = Chaos Gods.

 

"it is a place for souls and stuff like that"

 

No, Daemons eat souls there. The only souls there are those who are really reborn (Champions of Chaos dieing and becoming Heralds, Warriors dieing and becoming, well, warriors), and that is more akin to that soul dieing and causing the Herald/Warrior to be born.

 

*Well, Human, Eldar, Ork, Tau... The Emperor was Human, thats why I said Human.

 

I am getting tired. Please stop being foolish.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Your entire understanding of things Warp related is waaaaaaay off.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Your entire understanding of things Warp related is waaaaaaay off.

You would be closer if you said that to yourself.... Where do you find these ridiculus notions anyways?

[The Emperor's Champion]

Your entire understanding of things Warp related is waaaaaaay off.

You would be closer if you said that to yourself.... Where do you find these ridiculus notions anyways?

Codex:Chaos Daemons

Realms Of Chaos

Liber Chaotica

Codex: Chaos Space Marines

the various editions of the BBB

 

Basically anything GW has written about the Warp.

 

Seriously, you should at the very least go read Realms Of Chaos since that's the basis for all things Warp and Chaos related. It explains it quite elaborately.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

okays, as much as i enjoy banging my head against a wall, isnt this getting more than a bit repetitive?

 

its obvious that regardless of one's grasp of the background material available, opinion is going to differ, and i am kinda tired of seeing TEC and DAT having this fluff based "mexican standoff" with one another.

 

WLK

[The Emperor's Champion]

I think I've gotten tired of long explanations too, but at least I never stop winning :D

 

 

Actually, yea...I quit. Gotta draw the line somewhere. Can't explain everything. :rolleyes:

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

trust me, i didnt bother jumping in this latest TEC vs DAT faceoff cause i HAVE read the Realms of Chaos and parts of the Liber Chaotica...and your hitting the nail on the head.

 

but what would multiple people telling DAT he is incorrect in this instance accomplish? we have done that before and gotten nowhere. not even backwards.

 

so i'll save the time, do something productive instead (librarium vow and saturdays 120,000 apoc match to get ready for) while i chuckle at the whole thing.

 

WLK

[Spacefrisian]

Leman Russ has beaten the Emperor.

 

 

 

In a Drinking contest.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

and a eating contest, dont forget that brother!

 

but the martial contest they had...well, the emperor punched leman in the head with a power fist.

 

he did wake up a few minutes later, claiming the ale finally got to him

 

WLK

[Spacefrisian]

Still 2 out of 3 so a victory for Russ than.

[calgar101]

Some people say the Emperor let him win to inflate Russ's ego, make sense as the Emperor could of pysker zapped the food so it never reached his stomach.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Some people say the Emperor let him win to inflate Russ's ego, make sense as the Emperor could of pysker zapped the food so it never reached his stomach.

 

 

some people? who is some people? any source on this?

 

and to be honest, i find this unlikey for 2 reasons: (1) the emperor was angry to see russ win both, and responded by calling him a drunkard and a glutton...which started the fight and (2) the emperor never cheated to win over a primarch. especially with a person like russ, whose personal loyalty and honor was everything, it was paramount for the emperor to win his loyalty, rather than cheat for it.

 

WLK

[calgar101]

No source just what i've seen discussed before thats all. Yea exactly he didnt cheat, he could of but didnt. So he let Russ win to earn his respect and loyalty.

[The 13th Goat]

Pushed the Gods back? Really? Just how deluded are you? The Chaos Gods are what the Emperor draws power from he is a psyker after all. Duh.

 

No actually he is right here. The Emperor did explicitly push them out of Horus, it is stated in CV and in other sources. And no, the Gods are not the warp.

 

They aren't Greater Daemons. They are all the rage, hope, despair, and pleasure that mankind is generating. They don't own they warp, they are the warp.

 

They chose to retreat because they planned to betray Horus, this has been said in the fluff in various ways. In Codex : Chaos Space Marines, it says that he hesitated. No servant of the Gods, who are fully influenced by them, would do that. That he did suggests that they withdrew their support from Horus, so that they might betray him and provide more amusement for themselves. In Honor Among Fiends, a short story in Heroes of the Space Marines, the main character realizes that the Dark Gods had always intended to betray him as amusement, just like they eternally torment him.

 

First off, i like Horus's explanation; their just i different type of powerful xeno.

 

Secondly, Chaos: Deamons talks about the Realms of Chaos, and comments that they are held together by their lords will. If they were the warp, nothing would be able to travel without being tainted and the Emperor would go loco instantly. The warp is home to mighty beings, thats all. Plus if they were the warp they'd be one god, not 4.

 

As for "Honor Amoung Fiends", thats his musings, not a complete realization of the truth. It was an opinion, thats all.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I do have a question then... Why is it that almost every other source, when it writes about supports what I say?

 

For example - in Battle for the Abyss, a crewman who is dropped in the Warp describes it as an ocean of madness, tides of love, waves of hate... emotions.

 

WD has stated many, many, many times that the four gods are also made up of emotion. Physical embodiements of that emotion, and that they are made up of warp flesh, as is all their attendant daemons.

 

This suggests (if you aren't willing to hear 'clearly states') that the dark gods are part of the Warp. Them holding the rest of the Warp together doesn't surprise me.

 

Also, the only things that have entered the Warp without a gellar field or somesuch are the Nids and the Necrontyr. The Necrontyr are inherently repulsive to it, and the Nids have their warpshadow thingy ability.

 

A sentient xenos could not enter the Warp and bind it together without it driving the xenos in question mad.

 

As powerful as the Emperor is, it has been said many times that He is a psyker. Go read Legion if you want proof.

 

Since he is a psyker, he draws power from the Warp. Since the Gods, as explained, are part of the Warp, it isn't possible for them to push the gods back with their own power.

 

 

 

This leads to the now familar conclusion that the fluff contradicts itself. :)

 

I am glad I am not the only one getting tired of argueing with someone who is also right.

[tripking]

isn't there a 10 man squad of marines protecting the throan that have killed off 2 or 3 space marine chapters that tried to assault the Emperor?

[chaplain_quint]

Also, the only things that have entered the Warp without a gellar field or somesuch are the Nids and the Necrontyr. The Necrontyr are inherently repulsive to it, and the Nids have their warpshadow thingy ability.

 

To point out that your fluffsources, on which you are basing al of your opinions, are incomplete about loads of stuff, take the Nid codex and read page 21 about Narvhals and page 35 about the shadow in the warp.

 

They DON'T enter the warp!

[calgar101]

Sorry to go off-topic a min.

 

Must resist urge to shout at TDA for his imcompetance and complete lack of understanding and condescending nature!

 

There thats out of the way.

 

P.S i suggest this topic is closed as the original discussion went of the rails a while back.

[Walter Payton]

I do have a question then... Why is it that almost every other source, when it writes about supports what I say?

 

For example - in Battle for the Abyss, a crewman who is dropped in the Warp describes it as an ocean of madness, tides of love, waves of hate... emotions.

 

 

Ben Counter? Ben :) Counter? Are you really using Ben Counter to back up your points?

[Monstra Sumus]

I do have a question then... Why is it that almost every other source, when it writes about supports what I say?

 

For example - in Battle for the Abyss, a crewman who is dropped in the Warp describes it as an ocean of madness, tides of love, waves of hate... emotions.

 

 

Ben Counter? Ben :angry: Counter? Are you really using Ben Counter to back up your points?

 

 

This.

 

Win's the argument.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I do have a question then... Why is it that almost every other source, when it writes about supports what I say?

 

For example - in Battle for the Abyss, a crewman who is dropped in the Warp describes it as an ocean of madness, tides of love, waves of hate... emotions.

 

 

Ben Counter? Ben :P Counter? Are you really using Ben Counter to back up your points?

It doesn't make it any less true though

 

Bad choice of example then... Would you like me to provide a different example?

 

Lets see... This may take a few minutes...

[UltimateJake]

I do have a question then... Why is it that almost every other source, when it writes about supports what I say?

 

For example - in Battle for the Abyss, a crewman who is dropped in the Warp describes it as an ocean of madness, tides of love, waves of hate... emotions.

 

WD has stated many, many, many times that the four gods are also made up of emotion. Physical embodiements of that emotion, and that they are made up of warp flesh, as is all their attendant daemons.

 

This suggests (if you aren't willing to hear 'clearly states') that the dark gods are part of the Warp. Them holding the rest of the Warp together doesn't surprise me.

 

Also, the only things that have entered the Warp without a gellar field or somesuch are the Nids and the Necrontyr. The Necrontyr are inherently repulsive to it, and the Nids have their warpshadow thingy ability.

 

A sentient xenos could not enter the Warp and bind it together without it driving the xenos in question mad.

 

As powerful as the Emperor is, it has been said many times that He is a psyker. Go read Legion if you want proof.

 

Since he is a psyker, he draws power from the Warp. Since the Gods, as explained, are part of the Warp, it isn't possible for them to push the gods back with their own power.

 

 

 

This leads to the now familar conclusion that the fluff contradicts itself. :D

 

I am glad I am not the only one getting tired of argueing with someone who is also right.

 

They are made up of emotions? So this automatically makes them the Warp? Big no no. If the Chaos God were the Warp then everything would be cursed and corrupted. All the psykers would be possessed and in the thrall of the Dark Gods and their would be no travel at all since I am pretty sure the Chaos Gods would just crush any vessel at all so if they were the Warp then their would be no Imperium or really anything.

 

But, they are not. The Warp is their kingdom, where they live. It is the Realm of the Gods. The Eldar Gods lived their as do many other smaller deities. If the Chaos Gods were the Warp then how do you explain them letting their lands (The Warp), being inhabbitted by the Eldar Gods? Obviously they wouldn't because they are evil and they would just kill them. But, the Chaos Gods aren't in full control of the Warp. It is their kingdom and nothing more. Albeit I will admit they are probably some of the strongest beings in the Warp, they are not the Warp themselves.

[Monstra Sumus]

Seriously guys, this is getting so far off topic, make a new one because I'm pretty sure I can taste the radiation from the melta coming this way.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

They are made up of emotions? So this automatically makes them the Warp? Big no no.

 

Why? Because what I said makes perfect sense...

 

If the Chaos God were the Warp then everything would be cursed and corrupted. All the psykers would be possessed and in the thrall of the Dark Gods and their would be no travel at all since I am pretty sure the Chaos Gods would just crush any vessel at all so if they were the Warp then their would be no Imperium or really anything.

 

But if they crushed all the Imperial vessel, there would be no Imperium, thus no amusement for them... They are smart, even if they are insane. They don't serve Abbadon, who wants to see the Imperium fall, they serve themselves, and they want the Imperium to remain. It's a breeding ground for emotions, which means food for them.

 

But, they are not. The Warp is their kingdom, where they live. It is the Realm of the Gods. The Eldar Gods lived their as do many other smaller deities. If the Chaos Gods were the Warp then how do you explain them letting their lands (The Warp), being inhabbitted by the Eldar Gods? Obviously they wouldn't because they are evil and they would just kill them. But, the Chaos Gods aren't in full control of the Warp. It is their kingdom and nothing more. Albeit I will admit they are probably some of the strongest beings in the Warp, they are not the Warp themselves.

 

 

The Eldar gods are dead (save the Laughing God and the one that got broke into tiny little pieces known as avatars), There aren't any other dieties that are in the Warp besides those that are part of the Warp.

 

In the Doombreed description, it says Khorne was the first Dark God to 'awaken fully'. This suggests that he was always in the Warp, he just needed enough fuel (Anger) from humanity to acieve sentience.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, back from my search... I looked through my collection of books, and I realized that Ben Counter writes most of the stuff about Chaos. This limited my options extremely, to the point that I can't find anything about people falling into the Warp not written by him.

 

 

As for the off topic thing, this is what we do in Bolter and Chainsword B)

[UltimateJake]

They are made up of emotions? So this automatically makes them the Warp? Big no no.

 

Why? Because what I said makes perfect sense...

 

If the Chaos God were the Warp then everything would be cursed and corrupted. All the psykers would be possessed and in the thrall of the Dark Gods and their would be no travel at all since I am pretty sure the Chaos Gods would just crush any vessel at all so if they were the Warp then their would be no Imperium or really anything.

 

But if they crushed all the Imperial vessel, there would be no Imperium, thus no amusement for them... They are smart, even if they are insane. They don't serve Abbadon, who wants to see the Imperium fall, they serve themselves, and they want the Imperium to remain. It's a breeding ground for emotions, which means food for them.

 

But, they are not. The Warp is their kingdom, where they live. It is the Realm of the Gods. The Eldar Gods lived their as do many other smaller deities. If the Chaos Gods were the Warp then how do you explain them letting their lands (The Warp), being inhabbitted by the Eldar Gods? Obviously they wouldn't because they are evil and they would just kill them. But, the Chaos Gods aren't in full control of the Warp. It is their kingdom and nothing more. Albeit I will admit they are probably some of the strongest beings in the Warp, they are not the Warp themselves.

 

 

The Eldar gods are dead (save the Laughing God and the one that got broke into tiny little pieces known as avatars), There aren't any other dieties that are in the Warp besides those that are part of the Warp.

 

In the Doombreed description, it says Khorne was the first Dark God to 'awaken fully'. This suggests that he was always in the Warp, he just needed enough fuel (Anger) from humanity to acieve sentience.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, back from my search... I looked through my collection of books, and I realized that Ben Counter writes most of the stuff about Chaos. This limited my options extremely, to the point that I can't find anything about people falling into the Warp not written by him.

 

 

As for the off topic thing, this is what we do in Bolter and Chainsword B)

 

Actually there is several other deities that I know of which would likely be in the Warp:

 

Gork and Mork. The Ork Gods and they have to exist because of the Waagh's they instill in their weird-boys and such.

Malice: Renegade chaos god who is likely in the Warp.

 

And I think the Chaos Gods would enjoy nothing more than destroying the Imperium and letting the humans be independent. Imagine how many emotions several smaller empires would generate. Imagine the emotions and the constant madness. Sounds very chaosy and entertaining to me.

 

And as for the gods being made up of emotions by your logic then daemons and other things are too thus making them part of the Warp. But, they are not. They are merely living in the Warp as I have stated numerous times.