TheDarker Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Ok, the main characters of the Heresy are well known, but the Collected Visions presented one that we don´t know anything: Malcador. Who is? Why is he so close to the Emperor? Is he inmortal? Has ubernatural psychic powers? Well, that´s my idea: Everyone knows (or at least everyone so old/with a copy of the RT Book) that the Emperor is the union of the Shamans of Old, his minds and powers joined togheter to form an incredibly powerfull entity that we knows and love as Empy. But when the shamans decided to "fusionate" themselves was because the warp was becoming very dangerous, and they were losing his hability to re-incarnate (i´m not sure if Slaanesh was awake at this time), and i´m sure that the joining of a hundred thousand shamans´souls in the warp will make anyone notice it. Specially the Chaos Gods. So, when they began to "reunite", i´m pretty sure the young Chaos Power sensed this danger, and tryed to stop the birth of his enemy. Thanks to Luck, hability, or simply Awesome-power, the Emperor born. But... what if not all the shaman souls could "join" him. Or if some of the souls were isolated from the others in a Chaos attack while they were reunited?. I think that this could be the origin of Malcador... part of the shamans of Old, isolated from his objective (being the Emperor) but still capable of surviving in the warp and-eventually- reborn again. When the Emperor met him, i´m pretty sure he "feels" the link, and knows that Malcador was in fact "part" of him. This should be the reason of why he trust him so much, and how Malc could fuel the Golden Throne even for a short period of time. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Maybe The Emperor had just known Malcador for a loooooong time and he happens to have been around Tigurius' power level? That'd make him a very useful and trustable ally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 hm...well i believe that he's even stronger than Tigurius, strongest psyker around, second only to the Emperor. BBL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Tigurius is the strongest psyker second only to The Emperor too. They just live at different times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Murmurs of the new Blood Angel Codex appear to establish Mephiston as the Imperium's strongest living psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Maybe ruleswise, but it's pretty firmly established that he's likely 3rd fluffwise, after The Emperor and Tigurius at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ufthak Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Hey guys. Who's the 2nd-most-powerful Psyker? I'd say definitely Magnus - after all the Emperor would have had him replace the Emperor on the Golden Throne to hold the Gate during the siege of Terra (unluckily, Magnus had "chosen" the traitor side, and Malcador was used in his stead). I guess that makes Malcador the 3rd most powerful Psyker. Concerning the Darker's theory: Nice idea, Malcador being a shaman of old. Would also somehow fit his character. Still, I have my strong doubts. Hey, perhaps he's the Emperor's Dad... or perhaps his older brother. Or possibly one of his sons... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I think all of The Emperor's siblings and his parents were noted as being mortals, and thus long dead. It's possible that Malcador could be one of the Sensei, but I'd think it'd be noted. Malcador really isn't that mysterious based on what we know. He's just a powerful psyker and a trusted friend to The Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Oh no all the sons of the emperor (or sensei) must be sacrificed at the same time so he can't be a son of the emperor right :lol: I like the shaman theory is very nice. Also some people take an intrest in fluff and know this stuff even if they are young and started playing towards the end of 4th, although I do believe I am one of few ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Maybe ruleswise, but it's pretty firmly established that he's likely 3rd fluffwise, after The Emperor and Tigurius at least. do you have a page for this? one not written by matt ward preferably, but if it actually exists in fluff, i would like to see such a statement. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Both the current and 4th edition entires for Tigurius point to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 if your using: "If this is true then Tigurius will have proved himself one of the most powerful psychers in the Imperium as lesser individuals have been driven madmad by the mere shadow of the Hive Mind" pg 49 of Codex Space Marines, 4th ed "If this is true then Tigurius will have proven himself the most poweful psyker in the Imperium" pg 86 of the Codex Space Marines, 5th to get that Tigurius is anywhere near as powerful as either Malcador or the Emperor is very far-fetched at best. slightly crazy at worse. and lets remember that Matt Ward's codex was originally written in crayon, so lets not put too much weight on his words. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 But when the shamans decided to "fusionate" themselves was because the warp was becoming very dangerous, and they were losing his hability to re-incarnate (i´m not sure if Slaanesh was awake at this time), and i´m sure that the joining of a hundred thousand shamans´souls in the warp will make anyone notice it. Specially the Chaos Gods. So, when they began to "reunite", i´m pretty sure the young Chaos Power sensed this danger, and tryed to stop the birth of his enemy. The powers would have noticed it, yes. On an aside, as many people have raised this before, Slaanesh was indeed in existance around the time of the Emperor's birth. The War of the Havens and the Fall happened before man had evolved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2257966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Negative. The Emperor is older than all of the major Chaos Gods (with the possible exception of Malal I suppose). The Emperor was born in 8000 BC(-M9?), while Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch were born circa 1500 AD(M2), and Slaanesh was born in 28,000 AD(M29). The Chaos Gods weren't around to mess with The Emperor's birth. (How the hell does the Imperium notate stuff before M1???) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateJake Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Negative. The Emperor is older than all of the major Chaos Gods (with the possible exception of Malal I suppose). The Emperor was born in 8000 BC(-M9?), while Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch were born circa 1500 AD(M2), and Slaanesh was born in 28,000 AD(M29). The Chaos Gods weren't around to mess with The Emperor's birth. (How the hell does the Imperium notate stuff before M1???) The Imperium really didn't exist before then, because the Emperor was likely just growing up and preparing to take over Earth and unite it all. By the time the Emperor was creating the Primarchs the Chaos Gods would've been around, but very young. So that sounds about right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 While I know not when Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch were manifested; Slaanesh is a fairly recent addition (in some respects). The Eldar's fall was the spawning point for Slaanesh which kicked up the warp storms that began the period known as Old Night. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarker Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 TEC, the shamans of old decided to reunite because humanity was disturbing the warp and making reincarnation very difficult (they were spawning the Chaos Gods). I checked the RT fluff and it established that there were some "kind" of chaos gods... Dark powers in the warp. Maybe they were still not self-aware, or only "infants", but they were. On a separate note... Slaanesh'birth causes the fall of an entire race and the creation of the Eye of Terror. The birth of the rest of the Chaos Gods, more powerful in some kinds of way, seems to have been more pacific. Even Khorne's :) :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Negative. The Emperor is older than all of the major Chaos Gods (with the possible exception of Malal I suppose). The Emperor was born in 8000 BC(-M9?), while Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch were born circa 1500 AD(M2), and Slaanesh was born in 28,000 AD(M29). The Chaos Gods weren't around to mess with The Emperor's birth. (How the hell does the Imperium notate stuff before M1???) Wait, what? That can't be right, where did you get the dates? As far as i was aware, they were created by the War Of The Heavens: "With the new races using so much Warp power for the purposes of killing, the benign creatures in the Warp mutated into the evil creatures they are today." Codex Necrons "The introduction of these warlike and often psychic races into the galaxy had the side effect of warping the Warp - the war, pain, and destruction of the galaxy during the conflict was reflected in the Warp, and the innocuous entities which naturally existed in the Warp were twisted into voracious and hostile predators." Lexicanum on C'Tan With that being said, i also found that quote that said they formed around M2. Couldn't find a source for that, nor would it make much sense. The Necron/Old One War happened long before M0, thats for sure. Both the above quotes indicate the first 3 being far older. I'm also confussed that the Eldar fall happened a mere 2000 years before the Great Crusade. Surely the Dark Age Of Technology and the Age of Strife didn't happen within that 2000 year period? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorinoFan Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 the statement about the Chaos Gods being formed around 1500 Ad comes from a giant piece of fluff thinking that someone did based on sources and their own musings, I think it is on Warseer somewhere. Basically saying that humans created Tzeentch, Khorne and Nurgle because of stuff in the middle ages. As for the malcador theory, it sounds plausible that he could be one of the Shamans that wasn't involved in the mass suicide to create the Emperor. but even then it is going against the generally accepted direction that the fluff takes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 The dates are correct. They come from "Realms Of Chaos", the sources of all Chaos fluff. There were dangerous Warp entities before the Dark Ages, but nothing with a real intelligence. Slaanesh was born as part of the fall of the Eldar which happened not long before the Great Crusade. The Fall and birth of Slaanesh is actually what kicked off the Great Crusade by dissipating the Warp storms around Earth. Incidentally, Khorne is the oldest, then Tzeentch, and then "Grandfather" Nurgle... That just seems completely counterintuitive to me. In my mind it seems like it should go Tzeentch, Nurgle, Khorne, Slaanesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Also remember, time in the warp is.... different. So the chaos gods have always been there, and they are still being formed(at the same time ;) ) So they could have technically been killing the shamans, and still be formed in the 1200's-1300's. Also I think that for psykers, it goes: Big E, Magnus, Malcador, and Mephiston/ Tigurius tied for fourth (it's hard to tell which is "better", seeing the hive mind, or beating a genetic defect that wil turn you into a blood thirsty maniac. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Beating the Thirst/Rage has nothing to do with being an uber psyker. That was all willpower. Willpower no doubt lets him use his psionics more safely/efficiently, but it won't make him any more powerful. The Warp may make time wonky for realspace things moving through it, but apparently that does not hold true for Warp things within it. Otherwise there would've never been a time when the Warp was quiet (and there was), the Eye Of Terror would have always existed (it didn't), the Chaos Gods would have always existed (and they didn't), the Eldar Gods wouldn't be dead (they are). The Warp may be chaos to the material world, but within its own context it has its own order. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2258627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 it says in C:CSM that Khorne was the first of the Chaos gods (under Daemon Prince profile, in the small box about the first Daemon Prince, who was a general during the wars before the uniting of Terra's people). I also like the shaman idea. It sounds plausible. BBL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2259584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateJake Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 As for a list of the most powerful psykers I think it would be something like this: The Emperor, Magnus the Red, Varro Tigurius/Malcador, and then Mephiston. Although Malcador may possibly be a bit stronger than Tigurius, although it comes down to what you consider the more powerful feat: A) Sitting on the Golden Throne for a small amount of time or B Tapping into the Hive Mind IMO I think Malcador may be a little bit stronger than Tigurius however they are likely around the same power level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2259597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 The dates are correct. They come from "Realms Of Chaos", the sources of all Chaos fluff.There were dangerous Warp entities before the Dark Ages, but nothing with a real intelligence. Slaanesh was born as part of the fall of the Eldar which happened not long before the Great Crusade. The Fall and birth of Slaanesh is actually what kicked off the Great Crusade by dissipating the Warp storms around Earth. Considering Realms Of Chaos is infact designed for 1st edition, i personally am going to take that with a pinch of salt. The Necrons were non existant back in 1st edition, and their back story has loads of alludes to Chaos. Still, your point about intelligence may be true. As for the Eldar, what is still confusing me is the timeline. Eldar controlled most of the galaxy. But humanity would have already been their after the first colinization of the stars. :P Also, the birth of a mighty chaos entity..... dissapaits the warp storms? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190441-my-theory-of-malcador/#findComment-2261793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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