IA: The Frost Wyrms

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Hmm you make an excellent point. I shall be cleaning up a bunch of stuff real soon and I think this chapter will enter the final draft stage then. Let me know if you spot anything that should hit the final draft that has not already been noted.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Edits done! BRING ON THE CRITIQUING FURY OF THE EMPEROR!

[Sigismund Himself]

Edits done! BRING ON THE CRITIQUING FURY OF THE EMPEROR!

Famous last words ;)

 

A Librarian becoming a chapter master is against the Codex so I don't know why the Salamander Captain did it.

 

I'd suggest putting the Organisation section lower down the article. We get introduced to this chapter and then we are forced to read through perhaps the driest section of the IA.

 

The exception to this is the chapter's librarians. The Librarium recruits almost exclusively from Galcia Primaris and its scholam-cities, due to the larger concentration of psykers and the planet's effect on psyker power. While it is not unheard of for a Librarian to hail from Jarius, a civilized world that houses the major Administratum offices for the system, or Thakar, home to the Thakarran sages, a group of clan shamans whose principles complement the Frost Wyrm's own, the majority do hail from Galcia Primaris. Those of Galcia Secundus, the system's hive-world, often follow the path of the Techmarine; training with the Adeptus Mechanicus and often seeking out masters of the forge for further learning.

This doesn't particularly add much to the chapter either. Too much detail IMO.

 

The majority of Galcia Primaris' citizenry live in these temperate poles, with the planet's capital being Algarte. Algarte rests at the foot of the mountain that houses the Frost Wyrm's fortress, known as the Wyrm-hearth. Algarte is a civil city, home to many libraries and universities, despite being on a death world. It owes this peaceful existence to the sheltering presence of the Wyrms. Outside of the peaceful poles, the world is a savage and harsh place to be. Massive frost wyrms, great predators with two heads and scales as tough as ceramite, stalk the wastes, devouring any who dare venture alone. Hardbitten pioneers eke out a living by maintaining the massive geothermal factories which power the planet's cities and forges. While their existence is difficult, the pioneers are often very welcoming of outsiders, always willing to share a tale or drink to each other's health. Anyone who is lost in the wastes often gives thanks to the Emperor for these brave men and women who will often find them and care for them.

Is this a 40k world or Canada? ;) Apart from the non-Grimdark nature, how does it produce suitable children for recruits?

 

Cut out the Notable Battles/Figures section. It doesn't particularly add anything to the actual chapter at the moment. You can also more subtly insert this throughout the article which makes it look less like an info dump.

 

They prefer when possible to plan their battles, relying on their Techmarines for strategic advice.

Well, all marines plan their battles (except possibly the World Eaters) so this sentence is a bit superfluous. And why are the techmarines relied on for strategic advice? That's a captain's job.

 

“It is said that the tribulations of survival will rob a man of his humanity, that the constant pressures of staying alive will erode what makes you higher than a beast and leave you with nothing. I say unto you , it is the glory of the God-Emperor that saves us from that fate. Though our enemies beset us, though they tear at the walls of sanity, He preserves us. Brothers, with faith in the Emperor you shall never fail. With the Emperor, you shall be as angels unto Man, guarding him so that he might learn the way. Humanity is yet young and knows not the dangers of existence. Many fall to Chaos, others to mediocrity. But for the Angels of Death, the servants of the Emperor, this fate is not allowed. Purge the heretic, strike down the xenos, but never forget for whom you do so. From Man you came and to Man you must look. Let your bolter be as a fortress, your blade a gatehouse, your faith a shield. Let you be a beacon to Man, as the Emperor is a beacon to his ships. It is the duty, nay the privelage of every Frost Wyrm to guard Mankind and watch over him. Let not your heart be hardened by the failures of Man, for he lacks our strength. Let not your mind be darkened by hatred for his wrongdoings, for he has not our faith. Punish his wrongdoings, guide his ways, praise his success. For when there is only war, there must be a holy army to fight it.”

Give it a name and put it into a sidebar as it currently doesn't fit the article due to the different perspective.

 

 

Okay, you've got a theme of humanitarianism. Unfortunately, this is a theme that's been done a fair bit before. To differentiate yourself from all the other chapters using this, you need to find a different spin on it or add another intertwining theme. I would also suggest putting some more grimdark into the theme. What downsides are there to this? You've added a bit of conflict with other chapters, which is a good idea, but I feel it needs a bit more.

 

Apart from all that, it needs more to be added to it.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

I appreciate the criticism, and I shall be taking some of your suggestions right off. But there are a few I would like to contest and debate a bit before I leap in and add them.

 

1. Chapter-master Librarian- there is a precedent, Blood Ravens. And since this is a fairly new chapter, and the Salamanders come off as a reasonable bunch to me from what I've read, I don't see why Jaltor would throw away his plans to use Alistarious just because Alistarious turned out to be a psyker as well.

2. Not grimdarky enough. On the homeworld, fair enough, I may make the pioneers a bit too welcoming, as in they have an tradition of helping travelers only to make them pay their dues later. As to the chapter though, its a young chapter, and therefor naive enough to be happy happy happy. However, I do think I need to add some things like maybe their compassion led to greater loss at some point (a way to expand the Tragedy event maybe?)

 

On the Techmarines bit, I should probably broaden that to state they use their Techmarines to build up inventive traps and base their plans around that. As to the planning, I think maybe I should point out that Wyrms do not fight as well when unable to plan the engagement and have trouble reacting to situations (which oddly enough is a nice homage to one of the Sally flaws)

 

Let me know what you think of that

[NightrawenII]

First, I think the one of the colour schemes is redundant, second I like when img is handled in this way:

Frost Wyrm Marine

Recruits were pulled from the homeworld and the surrounding planets of Thakar, Jarius, Galcia Secundus, and Raloris. Initial training went well as recruits from these worlds proved hardy and accepted the geneseed easily. The planets in this system were cold in climate, with harsh tundras and fierce wildlife to contend with, which proved useful in preparing recruits.

So, your chapter recruint from... 5 planets, all in one system and all have cold climate? :(

The Frost Wyrms follow the Salamander's style of organization, as Jaltor handed down to Alistarious. Frost Wyrms differ from most if not all other chapters in that instead of having 10 companies, the Frost Wyrms have only 6 companies of marines in addition to a small company of about 60 scouts. Each company possesses 120 men as opposed to the standard 100 that the Codex Astartes promotes however.

The Salamanders have:

- only six companies because of Istavaan massacre and because they recruit from six major villages.

- small scout company, because their recruiting process is slow.

Nothing suggest that your chapter suffer from similar problems but then again it is just personal opinion.

Homeworld

Galcia Primaris....where the people love to welcome you and the world wants to kill you. -Rogue Trader Garrak

This need a little formating.

[Sigismund Himself]

1. Chapter-master Librarian- there is a precedent, Blood Ravens. And since this is a fairly new chapter, and the Salamanders come off as a reasonable bunch to me from what I've read, I don't see why Jaltor would throw away his plans to use Alistarious just because Alistarious turned out to be a psyker as well.

The Blood Ravens Librarian Chapter Master was under extraordinary circumstances (First Company taking a lot of casualties, death of head Chaplain and current Chapter Master). Plus the latest fluff actually has there being no Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens (some sort of secret council arrangement instead, although it is from the Black Library) so there's a bit of confusion regarding what's happening. Generally, mixing psykers with command is extremely risky, given the mistrust psykers generally garner and the risk of possession.

 

2. Not grimdarky enough. On the homeworld, fair enough, I may make the pioneers a bit too welcoming, as in they have an tradition of helping travelers only to make them pay their dues later.

The pioneers were what really caught me as out of place. The rest seemed relatively fine, apart from lack of specification on how it produces Astartes grade recruits.

 

As to the chapter though, its a young chapter, and therefor naive enough to be happy happy happy. However, I do think I need to add some things like maybe their compassion led to greater loss at some point (a way to expand the Tragedy event maybe?)

I wouldn't have it leading to greater losses as that would seemingly reinforce their heroic nature. I would add something a little more grimdark like this humanity actually impairs their effectiveness and leads to greater human casualties. Perhaps that's just my penchant for the ironic though :P

 

On the Techmarines bit, I should probably broaden that to state they use their Techmarines to build up inventive traps and base their plans around that. As to the planning, I think maybe I should point out that Wyrms do not fight as well when unable to plan the engagement and have trouble reacting to situations (which oddly enough is a nice homage to one of the Sally flaws)

I think it's just a bit odd about the lack of planning hurting them. Marines are tactical geniuses. Each can probably draw up a plan of battle in 5 minutes that will ensure success. And this is your normal marine, not even a Captain. Not sure on the inventive traps idea, though perhaps that's because of lack of detail on how it works.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

How about I explain that there is a tradition on Galcia Primaris where one has to spend the early part of their childhood in school, as usual, but then have to do a year or two of working out in the geothermal factories which would provide tough but intelligent troops.

 

As to the planning bit..........hmm its a bit hard to give Space Marines flaws isn't it :P

 

As to their naivety, I was thinking something like arguing about killing off a world with another chapter or something, winning the argument, only for a heretic or something to get loose and terrorize again. Perhaps use that to introduce the Hemophages, make them a result of the Wyrm's hubris and thus their ensuing battles against them are a bit of a penitent crusade to make up for their mistakes.

[Octavulg]

I think you would benefit heavily from adopting a more conventional IA structure - standard sections, in the standard order. Right now, information is presented rather haphazardly, and much of the meat of the IA is at the end.

 

As others have said - the Chapter Master/Librarian is questionable. You could preserve much of the same character by simply having him be a scholar (which would make his decision to try to fight for the Emperor all the more impressive).

 

Captioning the color schemes would look better.

 

It's OK at the moment. I think a reorganization would help make it a lot more readable.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Hmm I suppose Alistaroius could become a scholar instead of a psyker, I'll give on that ^_^ (been immersed in 1k sons, Blood Ravens, and GK stuff lately so psykers seem kinda norm lately XD)

 

I'll fix up alot of the organizing when I get the chance.

 

Could you elaborate on the captioning?

[Octavulg]

Put them in a caption, like so:

 

[captionright="TEXT"]IMAGE[/captionright]

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Hmm before I implement the above suggestions, and although I dislike messing with things this late in the game,

 

How about making the cities on Galcia Primarus home to an order of warrior-scholars, who train by subjecting themselves to the cold and predators at a young age, while studying ancient war writings and such?

 

O.O Then I could totally make the combat style revolve around a deep philosophical approach to combat or something.

 

Let me know what you guys think of that. I think it would deepen the theme a bit, make them stand out a bit better?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

So you're essentially talking the Swordmasters of Hoeth, from WHFB?

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Possibly, my WHFB is a bit rusty ( I know what I know from Warhammer online sad to say)

 

I've got this image in my head of a very discipline ascetic order, that fights with their brains then their brawn. Really look at the deep underpinnings to battle.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Yup, the Swordmasters are all about study and swordsmanship.. But i would say it's hard to fins a "philosophical" style of combat! :P

[A D-B]

I can't get enough of that colour scheme.

 

On snow bases, that would be freaking killer.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

They actually look fairly good on snow bases. I've been meaning to try another pass at them now that I've been sharpening my skills on my Grey Knights, but I'm kind of holding off until I can get foundation paints. Initial attempts gave me a very pale blue, but I want a very rich deep blue with a light sheen to it, sort of like the depths of ice over the ocean or something.

 

I've also been meaning to post up the excellent badge that the Steel Raptors guy (sorry I forgot your name ;) ) made, it looks killer.

 

I've been looking into a Musashi-esque approach to fighting, from what I can gather he emphasised mastering one art so that you needed no teacher for any other art as the fundamentals were already there sort of thing. Problem is all the concepts I can get of a warrior-scholar type seem to point me to Blood Ravens/1k sons.

[Sigismund Himself]

The Warrior/Scholar idea can be mixed in with the humanitarian theme to differentiate them from the Blood Ravens. There's only a certain amount of themes in the world, it's how you put a new spin on it or combine them that helps make a chapter stand out.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Can anyone direct me to some good internet reading I can use to contrast different warrior/scholar groups from history? So far I've looked a little into the samurai and their ideas and I'm familiar with chivalric knights but I could use a few more groups to round things out and combine to make unique.

 

Edit: Also, how does a heavy emphasis on meditation and self reflection sound? This could explain their humanitarian side a bit as they weigh the consequences of their actions more than most chapters and thus aren't prone to unnecessary loss.

[NightrawenII]

There we go: Sohei, Shaolin, Yamabushi.

[Gree]

Plus the latest fluff actually has there being no Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens (some sort of secret council arrangement instead, although it is from the Black Library) so there's a bit of confusion regarding what's happening. Generally, mixing psykers with command is extremely risky, given the mistrust psykers generally garner and the risk of possession.

 

Actually no, the Blood Ravens Chapter Master is names in the latest game as Chapter Master Kyras.

[Sigismund Himself]

Plus the latest fluff actually has there being no Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens (some sort of secret council arrangement instead, although it is from the Black Library) so there's a bit of confusion regarding what's happening. Generally, mixing psykers with command is extremely risky, given the mistrust psykers generally garner and the risk of possession.

 

Actually no, the Blood Ravens Chapter Master is names in the latest game as Chapter Master Kyras.

Well, this only adds to the confused nature of the Blood Raven fluff. Is it seriously that hard to stay consistent within a series :rolleyes:

[Octavulg]

The IA says the current Chapter Master is Gabriel Angelos.

 

Just to clarify matters. :o

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

And as fascinating as that is (I believe Angelos is actually the 3rd Company Captain) any other voices on the warrior-scholar approach/meditation idea? I would like to explore those themes a bit before my next revision.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Well, this only adds to the confused nature of the Blood Raven fluff. Is it seriously that hard to stay consistent within a series B)

 

^^ I've been saying that exact thing in the Black Library and Fluff thread... Emperor bless you Sigismund!

 

EDIT: Warrior-Scholar

 

You need to find where the balance is going to be; do they study because it makes them better warriors, or do they study because... *forgot the other reason I was going to type*.

 

Interestingly, I came up - literally just now - with the idea of a genetic mutation that makes them more prone to study and learning.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Could work. I'm actually making my way through A Thousand Sons and the way the 1k Sons operate and approach learning/combat might be a huge influence here.