Golindar Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Ok, I've been toying with the idea of running a 2000pt list that is maxed out on terminators. That is 3x10 man squads. After some weapon upgrades, I would probably be around 1300 points leaving a crucial 700 points. My thoughts are to load up with 4-5 squads of scouts with some homers and a heavy weapon and get close to the enemy line. The terminators would deep strike in combat squads where needed, sustain a round of shooting and then get to mowing. I might add some drop pods just to ensure the arrival of some terminators so the scouts aren't hung out to dry. Another consideration is to use the Master of the Forge as HQ and add a drop pod dread to show up on turn one. That would certainly draw a lot of high str. low AP fire from the Termies and also add some low AP punch of it's own. A scout squad with snipers and the master of the forge with conversion beamer could hold an objective in my deployment zone, and if I get infiltrated, I could drop a squad of termies there for support. Are there any obvious things I am not considering? I realize that a tac squad could rapid fire a termie squad in half in one turn, but the counter assault could be devastating. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachboy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The main problem with this idea I think, is that deep striking units are never reliable enough to show up when you need them. So there is a chance that your 700 point of scouts (or whatever else you choose) will have to fend off a 2000 point army on their lonesome. Then if your terminators show up piecemeal they'll get decimated as well. Ultimately as an idea it'll either work incredibly well, and you'll slaughter your enemy, or it will fail badly. That being said it does sound like a very fun idea. You could consider starting one squad on the table with a librarian and Gate of infinity. That way your scouts won't be overwhelmed (too much) and then the other 20 terminators can drop in later. Either way, give it a try. I'm quite interested to hear how it goes. Cheers Roachboy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2274862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golindar Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I am worried about the terminators showing up too late to support each other. I could invest 150 points on 5 drop pods to ensure that they will all arrive by turn 2, but I think the cost might be too great. As far as the terminator distribution I thought 10xassualt terminators and 20x tactical terminators would give me enough fire power and assault punch to really be effective. I also thought about using Deathwing rules, but I don't have the codex. I also heard storm sheilds are outdated in the DA codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2274879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachboy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 As far as i'm aware, terminators cannot use drop pods. Also half the drop pods would arrive turn 1, the rest as normal. So therefore not guaranteed by turn 2. Like I said, this army is risky, but with lucky reserve rolls, could be awesome. If you can spare the points Tigurius allows you re rolls for reserves so he could prove useful for this list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2274889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If they're Tac Terminators, why not just walk them up the board? Go with 2x CML and you have 20 S4 shots + 4 Missiles for each squad all reaching out to 30" when you're moving. Give each squad 1-2 Chainfists for Land Raiders and there isn't anything these squads couldn't handle. I'd bury atleast 1 Librarian in a squad, to give you Hood coverage and for Null Zone (which matches the effective range of the Stormbolters perfectly). For troops, I think some basic Tactical squads in Rhinos would work well mixed in with some Scouts. Both are there mostly to hold objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2274943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golindar Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I think that terminators can use drop pods. I think they can take them as dedicated transports (don't have my codex on me right now). There are also apocalypse formations that include terminators in drop pods. With this list though, I don't think the points are worth ensuring 50% of them on turn one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachboy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Terminators don't have the option to take a drop pod, only a land raider. Like you said though, for this list it would probably just be a waste of points anyway. The suggestion of just marching them forwards with Tacticals in support sounds viable. If you maxed out on cyclone launchers and a few chainfists, you'd have points left for a couple of mechanized tac squads to claim objectives. Then fill the rest with HQ of your choice (I'd go librarian) and a scout squad. Thoughts? Cheers, Roachboy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I have been using a couple squads of walking termies supporting 3-4 tactical squads. They work well together... The tacticals can very often provide a cover save to the terminators, while the terminators can provide power fists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I have been using a couple squads of walking termies supporting 3-4 tactical squads. They work well together... The tacticals can very often provide a cover save to the terminators, while the terminators can provide power fists. Plus nothing is stopping you from running the Rhino infront of the Terminators for a cover save/LOS blocker. Leave the Tac squad to camp an objective or to move/run and play catchup. Razorbacks could also work, moving 6" and providing some dakka. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Sasha Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Dark Angels get the Deathwing assault rule, ie half turn up in round 1 automatically, like our drop-pods; and their bikes get teleport homers as standard. Would you consider using C:DA as a counts-as? If so, Belial as HQ makes termys into troop choices. My son, a DA player, has 2x3man bike squads as homer/melta/suicide units and 3x5man termy squads, and they are a right nuisance! Beware though, DA terminators do NOT have the Relentless USR! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I would definately run a libby as one HQ, for null zone and the important hood. After that, you have a few options. As some have said, 10 tactical termies with 2 cyclones and 1-2 chainfists are fantastic. I run this squad with my Blood Ravens, and they are constantly the stars, even though they have to foot slog. As for what else to add, well Pedro Kantor's +1 attack bubble makes termies very scary with 4 powerfist attacks on the charge per termie. He also makes the termie stubborn which is also great. If you dont like Pedro, then I recommend Shrike. Take 10 assault termies with THSS and have shrike infiltrate them. 10 THSS termies infiltrating with fleet of foot is pretty over the top for most armies. Other than Shrike armies that take 10 THSS termies, I would stick with 30 tactical termies with cyclones and a few scattered chainfists. Troops can be rhino or razorback tactical squads that will pretty much always combat squad, or 5 man sniper missile launcher scouts, or landspeeder storm powerfist scouts with shotguns. Scouts, with the ability to outflank, are my choice as they can hide in reserve and come in on top of objectives. Also, if you are running shrike, then scouts infiltrating, then scout moving forward, then walking forward, fleeting, and assaulting can hit targets on turn 1... before vehicles have moved, for example. Very scary for some armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I've had a thought of doing the same thing. 30 tactical Terminators, each squad with either a CML and a pair of chainfists. Problem is fitting in more than two good-sized Troops units. You're almost forced to take Scouts, unless you're willing to go with the minimum two mechanized tac squads with no upgrades. If you go that route, be prepared to have the tacticals bombed first. You'll really have to balance your deployment depending on your opponent and their force. You'll want to determine when it's more advantageous to keep Terminators in reserve, and whether they'll arrive by deepstrike or walk on from the board edge. Then you have to assess how likely it would be for your tacticals to survive to contest the objectives, and if it might be better to keep them in reserve for a late-game Rhino rush. It'll be a fun list to play, but will require a lot of skill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 HQ: 100 Librarian, Null Zone + anything else ELITE: 1395 3x10 Terminators, 2 CML, 1 Chain Fist TROOP: 505 2x 10 Tacticals, Meltagun, Missile, Rhino 1x5 Scouts, Missile Launcher Yeah thats about all you can fit in. I think it would be a far more competitive list if you went with 2x10 or 3x5 as both would give you the points leftover to take 3 decent scoring units plus some heavy/fast options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2275516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warprat Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I have been using a couple squads of walking termies supporting 3-4 tactical squads. They work well together... The tacticals can very often provide a cover save to the terminators, while the terminators can provide power fists. Plus nothing is stopping you from running the Rhino infront of the Terminators for a cover save/LOS blocker. Leave the Tac squad to camp an objective or to move/run and play catchup. Razorbacks could also work, moving 6" and providing some dakka. Rhinos would work great, I plan to add in some next game. But so far I've only been using a foot army with no vehicles. 4 tacticals, 2 termies, and 2 leaders. The contents of 2 Black Reach boxes + 2 Tac squads. I have been really enjoying the heck out of just using basic units, without all the special doo-dads. Really helps to get my tactics down... making the most from what I got. Really, it's surprising what just basic units can do. One termie squad supporting 2 tacticals seems to work well for me. I think the reverse ratio would be interesting to play as well! Which would be 1 termie for each tac. Who needs devestators with all those missile launchers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2276186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeonic Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 ...Beware though, DA terminators do NOT have the Relentless USR! Er, not sure why this matters, DA TDA in their armory listing specifically states they can fire heavy weapons on the move, and assault after firing heavy and rapidfire weapons. The only difference between this and "real" Relentless is that with Relentless you fire as if stationary so you can fire a single shot from a combi-bolter to full 24" range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2276367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Sasha Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 ...Beware though, DA terminators do NOT have the Relentless USR! Er, not sure why this matters, DA TDA in their armory listing specifically states they can fire heavy weapons on the move, and assault after firing heavy and rapidfire weapons. Eeep! I'd missed that entirely! All this time I've been denying my son his Cyclones if he moved! I'm a bad Dad! Oooh, he'll be reminding me of this for years. Thanks for the wrist slap! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2276395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemphill777 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 You might consider taking Tigurius with one of your Terminator Squads. He's a tad expensive, but knowing all the psychic powers available to librarians makes him extremely versatile. Also, his Gift of Prescience rule allows to re-roll all reserve rolls, even when he's off the table or, emperor forbid, dead. Tigurius, combined with the lack of scattering guaranteed by a well-placed scout squad, would make for a devastating army. You might consider leaving a bare-bones scout squad back in cover at your end of the table, in the unfortunate event that your reserves don't come in and your forward scout squad gets wiped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2276598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Eeep! I'd missed that entirely! All this time I've been denying my son his Cyclones if he moved! I'm a bad Dad! Oooh, he'll be reminding me of this for years. Only if you tell him... :) Joking :D RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2277003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golindar Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 Thanks, everyone, for all of the replys. The Tigurius idea is a great one that I had not thought of. He is expensive, but might be worth it for this kind of list. I thought about using the Dark Angels codex to create a "counts as" deathwing assault list. I have a captain in terminator model that I would use for a "counts as Belial" then I was going to max out on deathwing terminators. Then I was told that Deathwing Terminators with storm sheilds to not get a 3+ invulnerable save, but instead get a 4+ invulnerable only in close combat. After flipping through the DA codex, this was confirmed. I also read that their cyclone missle launchers fire just like a regular missle launcher, meaning a heavy 1 rather than the heavy 2 that the codex: space marines get to enjoy. I never played 4th edition, but I assume it wasn't until the 5th edition codes that Space Marines got better storm shields and cyclone missle launchers than the Dark Angels. That said, what do you Dark Angels players prefer to equip Assault cannons instead? Deathwing looks like a lot of fun to play, but without any ranged invulnerable saves, I fear that they will fall fast to plasma and other AP2 weaponry. I haven't read the new space wolves codex, but if I use a "counts as space wolves" list I'll retain the 3+ invulnerable save with my storm shields. Also, I don't know if space wolves have a cheap troop choice to fill out the list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2278955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I haven't read the new space wolves codex, but if I use a "counts as space wolves" list I'll retain the 3+ invulnerable save with my storm shields. Also, I don't know if space wolves have a cheap troop choice to fill out the list. Space Wolves can take an all-Terminator list if Logan Grimnar is taken as their HQ unit. He allows all Wolf Guard as Troops. The tricky thing there is that every Wolf Guard member in a squad must be armed differently, which results in you having to make a LOT of custom models that you won't really be able to use in anything other than a Wolfwing list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2278971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The tricky thing there is that every Wolf Guard member in a squad must be armed differently, which results in you having to make a LOT of custom models that you won't really be able to use in anything other than a Wolfwing list. Nope, that's not the case. :blink: Only HQ choices need to be armed differently. Wolf Guard can all be the same if you really wanted. It was suggested in the release White Dwarf to do it as it makes it seem more fluffy with each warrior having a preference with regards to equipment, but it's not a rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2278984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golindar Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 I haven't read the new space wolves codex, but if I use a "counts as space wolves" list I'll retain the 3+ invulnerable save with my storm shields. Also, I don't know if space wolves have a cheap troop choice to fill out the list. Space Wolves can take an all-Terminator list if Logan Grimnar is taken as their HQ unit. He allows all Wolf Guard as Troops. The tricky thing there is that every Wolf Guard member in a squad must be armed differently, which results in you having to make a LOT of custom models that you won't really be able to use in anything other than a Wolfwing list. answered my own question already... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2279009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemphill777 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thanks, everyone, for all of the replys. The Tigurius idea is a great one that I had not thought of. He is expensive, but might be worth it for this kind of list. That's the only kind I have, mostly -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2280264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 to minimize Scatter, take 1 or 3 Dreads in droppods, 1-2 with locator beacon. 1st turn beacon deployment + very fluffy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2282923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yotakka Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Personaly i would go for shike and 2 10 man tac squads in rhinos for your last points. the deck one termie squad with 2x assault cannons and infiltrate em. they would be a huge fire magnet and if you siezer iniative they could get a first turn assault on what ever is closest to avoid fire. or for even more shenanigans out flank the entire army :D take kahn and make your opponent guess as to when and where things show up. with the ability to outflank or deep strike you can definetly make sure your termies are where they need to be. Also taking 2 tac squads in rhinos allows you to reserve em and swoop in late game for an objective that the termies already cleared out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191695-maxing-out-on-terminators/#findComment-2283591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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