IA: Iron Angels

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Sounds good to me so far, only thing that bothers me is the beliefs section. SMs as nice guys .... gonna be hard to get past the censors. Marines by nature kill ... kill anything that may (and I stress the may) be tainted without thought or question. Not really the nice guy material.

 

edit: One other suggestion.

 

Rather then doing away with Tactical and Devastator squads, it may work just to use less and equip those with jump packs. Workable?

 

Also, using mostly Assault squads, where will the Termies be?

 

It's not nice guys, maybe I didn't explain enough, but more if civilian casualties can be avoided theyy will be; if the only way yo win is to bombard a palent, they will do so!

 

I never said they did away with Tacs/Devs, or at least I didn't mean too!

 

The First Company, in part, are trained in the use of TDA but the Chapter has few suits of it.

[Ecritter]

Still by SM standards they are pretty nice. They actually care about collateral damage.

 

But with that in mind, have you considered equiping everyone with Jump Packs? I kinda would go along with your storyline.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

But with that in mind, have you considered equiping everyone with Jump Packs? I kinda would go along with your storyline.

 

My thought was that although all Battle-Brothers are trained in the use of jump packs, each has an alternate speciality such as tactical or Landspeeder Crew; maybe I should explain that! :huh:

 

EDIT: Edited to include the above.

 

 

My current major concern, until someone points out something else, is the geneseed question.

 

I'm thinking Dorn, because of the honour duels, but that might be a bit obvious.

Sanguinius/Blood Angels is an obvious choice for the Assault element, but i don't want to inlcude Thirst/Rage.

Corax, again for the jump pack element and surgical strikes - but i don't know much about that gene heritage.

Also considering White Scars for the blitzkrieg style.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Input.. Anyone? Someone?

 

Don't make me beg, or offer cookies?

[Ecritter]

I have to say, I normally find a geneseed after I have the idea. Just takes a bit of searching, perhaps someone with more knowledge can offer suggestions.

 

Being as they're and angels chapter you could always go for Dark Angels, its a good stable geneseed.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The only one to jump is id the Dorn/Fists/duels.

 

But I always seem to pick Dorns heritage.

 

 

Thanks for the help you have provided already though Ecritter :)

[Octavulg]

More on beliefs, how they came about, and what it means. Let the rest of the IA flow from that. Honestly don't think you need such a unique organization.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

More on beliefs, how they came about, and what it means. Let the rest of the IA flow from that. Honestly don't think you need such a unique organization.

 

Unless you would care to elaborate, sir, I think I shall keep the organisation pretty much as is; although I may swap around which Companies are Battle and Reserve.

 

Specifically for you, Octavulg: Does this incarnation seem to flow better/be more coherent than the Just version?

 

Should Beliefs be the largest section?

[Octavulg]

The Organisation is not the point of a Chapter (at least, it's not the point of a good Chapter). What makes the Chapter unique is. And it is a poor Chapter whose character is summed up in the structure of their companies.

 

There are, to pontificate, two kinds of chapters: concept chapters and pseudo-narrative chapters. Concept chapters try to show off a particular vision of a Space Marine chapter - one with particular quirks of viewpoint or thought. This need not be particularly deep - "what if Marines were Viking werewolves?" has taken the Space Wolves farther than you or I shall ever go. Still, this kind of article focuses on presenting the spirit of a particular Space Marine chapter. The Imperial Fists, Ultramarines and Alpha Legion are examples. Of my chapters, the Ice Lords are this. The Beliefs of the Ice Lords are their focus - they were conceived specifically to have a Dark Angels successor who realized just what an ass Lion El'Jonson is.

 

The other kind are pseudo-narrative chapters, where the focus is not so much the Chapter itself but its unique circumstances and how it has reacted to them. Wildfire's Ghost Legion are a decent example. The Flesh Tearers, Blood Angels, Dark Angels - all are Chapters which are dealing with the progression of events, and it is dealing with these events rather than the actual character of the Chapter that provides the tension in those IAs. Removing the adverse events from those Chapters would leave them with nothing. The Bronze Prophets are this - they were conceived purely so they could have a bunch of marines locked up under the monastery.

 

Most IAs eventually end up with aspects of both - the Ice Lords have a crapload of narrative, and the Bronze Prophets have at least a moderately neat concept. But creating them started in completely different places. For the Ice Lords, the Beliefs were pretty much the first thing written - almost everything else was getting there. For the Bronze Prophets, the getting there was first, and the Beliefs and other sections flowed from that. A conceptual chapter needs to start thinking through its concept. A narrative chapter needs to think through its story.

 

I will ask again, as I have before - what do you want to do with this IA. Boil the Chapter you have in your mind down to a sentence, and let us have it. Because what you should do first and what you need to focus on is critically dependent on that.

 

EDIT: The Ice Lords are probably more on the fence than anything else. The Castigators, there's a concept chapter. Think about them instead.

[Ecritter]

I think that's it, I do concept chapters and I think Octavulg does more pseudo-narrative chapters, that's why I have trouble giving feedback on his.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

what do you want to do with this IA

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm really not sure how to answer that.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

If you take all jump packs, I will have to kill you and steal the idea back B)

 

Seriously, I already have an all jump pack chapter (the Angels of Adamantium).

[Ecritter]

Well the way I see it, you have a good idea for a homeworld ... and are building a chapter around that idea. That'd be more my style.

 

With that in mind, I suggest you continue to build the homeworld and let the chapter flow from that source. So far you've let them be more assault because of it, how else would it change them?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

First off, I have toned down the Organisation; with the 2nd-8th as Battle Companies and only the 9th as slightly different as I have a plan for them.

 

 

If you take all jump packs, I will have to kill you and steal the idea back B)

 

Seriously, I already have an all jump pack chapter (the Angels of Adamantium).

 

One of my abiding loves with Space Marines is jump pack troops!

 

 

Well the way I see it, you have a good idea for a homeworld ... and are building a chapter around that idea. That'd be more my style.

 

With that in mind, I suggest you continue to build the homeworld and let the chapter flow from that source. So far you've let them be more assault because of it, how else would it change them?

 

As I stated above, i don't know what should be the longest section; I based it all around the idea for their homeworld so should that be it?

[Ecritter]

Not really, just build around that and see what flows ... what seems right.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Not really, just build around that and see what flows ... what seems right.

 

From the way i read what I have, everything from the majority of manpower to warfare style is from the homeworld and its inhabitants so maybe that and an expansion of the beliefs is my avenue of focus.

 

Also, what about the, now simpler, Organisation?

[Walter Payton]

Since my IA is undergoing a radical revamp, I will take a wee break to comment on this one and offer some useless nitpicking, cunningly disguised as words of wisdom...

 

My first piece of advice is to start a new topic for these guys, because you can easily justify it-the current one is nearly six pages long-and it is irritating having to scroll through hundreds of comments to find the ones pertaining to this chapter.

 

I think the whole IA needs a fair bit of fleshing out, there isn't really much meat to comment on at the mo, but then again you are re-starting an old one.

 

An introduction section wouldn't go amiss either, just a few paragraphs explaining who they are and what they get up to.

 

I think at the moment, everything is fine and good, but there isn't much, so less scope for error, and, therefore, C 'n' C.

[Octavulg]

It's not about length. It's about what you derive all the other ideas from.

 

I mean, the history of the Ice Lords is massively long. But it's sole purpose is to get to the Beliefs section and talk about how the Chapter thinks.

 

The Bronze Prophets, meanwhile, derived almost completely from a concept in the middle of their Origins section. Everything else is a reaction to that. Unfortunately, large chunks of the IA basically came to me in a flash, so damned if I can remember how I made it from minimal concept to four thousand odd words.

 

Hmmm...I should post my old drafts for my IAs sometime...

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Yep, I'm following Octa-Advice... Get up the frame before the fleshing.

 

My current train of though leads me to believe that the Combat Doc., Geneseed and Battlecry should be the shortest sections.

 

Homeworld and Beliefs tied for first with Origin in third.

 

It's not about length.

 

You know it's not the first time I've heard that...

 

 

Seriosuly though, i have noticed a trend where IAs tend to have a section that is larger than the others which tends to emphasise the character or what not.

[Octavulg]

Home World is an...odd place to start (though my Steel Dogs derive mostly from a recruiting practice (which derives from two words: agression inhibitor. You'll see eventually). It can be tricky unless you also have some solid ideas for how the chapter interacts with that home world.

 

So...tell us everything about the home world (in point form, preferably). It may not all end up in the home world section, but it gives us a better idea for how to build the rest of the Chapter.

 

I'd say that the section will be disproportionately large. It isn't necessarily always the largest. You're right in that there is a trend, but you shouldn't fill the Home World section with needless details in order to make it larger than the other sections. Make it big enough.

 

And, like I said - so, what about that Home World. What about them, and how does the Chapter interact?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

• Totally covered in mountains - only flat area is that occupied by the Chapter Fortress
  
• Water is in the form of rivers and lakes fliing valleys between mountains - it is prestigious to have a township near the water.
  
• Said water is slowly eroding the mountians, so slowly destroying the Jerician homeworld.
  
• Jericians live in townships, which tend to be up to a few hundred large.
  
• Townships adhere to the mountains via some ancient for of grav/adhesion tech that the Jericians dont understand anymore - copies of which were donated to the AdMech (im thinking in return for leaving the rest and giving a faction/forgeworld a favour to call in)
  
• Jericians have a strict code by which they live their lives that revolves around loyalty, honour and righteousness.
  
• Loyalty is generallt prised above all other things.
  
• Cowardess is considered a capital crime - generally punished by impalling.
  
• Minimal contact between Chapter and people, barring the taking of recruits.
  
• People tend to be tall and broad, tougher than normal but not Deathworld tough.
  
• Good tech level - basic form of a jump pack, which is utilised in warfare.
  

 

Thats all my brain is telling me right now, but it's not exhaustive.

[Octavulg]

Looking at this, I note that loyalty seems the most prominent aspect. (I also note that the place is geographically impossible, but that's hardly a concern in 40K).

 

Comfortable extending that to the Chapter? There's a lot of mileage in exploring loyalty and what it means - I did a bit of that with the Ice Lords, and it's always enjoyable to write about people who are actually moral. ^_^

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Looking at this, I note that loyalty seems the most prominent aspect. (I also note that the place is geographically impossible, but that's hardly a concern in 40K).

 

Comfortable extending that to the Chapter? There's a lot of mileage in exploring loyalty and what it means - I did a bit of that with the Ice Lords, and it's always enjoyable to write about people who are actually moral. :huh:

 

I'm pretty sure i can incorporate that into the Chapter as, just for a bit of self promotion, I concocted Loyalty and the Astartes :)

 

Aye, I know the world is impossible and, like you say, in 40k that is hardly unusual, but I like the way I can draw from that concept to give the chapter character.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Good tech level - basic form of a jump pack, which is utilised in warfare.

 

'executes Captain Juan Juarez for stealing the Jumppacks idea'

 

I told you I would...

 

Seriously - include a lot of Jump Packs, have less other stuff, but all jump packs is already taken.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Seriously - include a lot of Jump Packs, have less other stuff, but all jump packs is already taken.

 

Gunna have to back up the bus there skippy.

 

So you're telling me I cannot have jump pack equipped troops, despite the fact the entire IA is partially built around that concept linked with the homeworld?