IA: Iron Angels

[Rabid Chipmunk]

Im gonna have to go with the Captain on this one. There are thousands of chapters and I find it hard to believe that only one would focus on jump pack troops. Given the geography, he has a pretty solid basis for taking his troop structure in that direction. Saying he can't do that because its already beeen done makes as much sense to me as telling someone they can't use a particular color or gene-seed because its "been done". His real challenge will be doing it in a unique way. THATS what i want to see. How are these jump marines different than others?

 

Although, that gives me a thought. Have you considered doing something with tunnel warfare? All those mountains and valleys with rivers cutting up the landscape means there has to be thousands and thousands of caves and underground passages. Not tryin to tell you what to do, just a random thought that popped into my head.

 

Id like to see the whole loyalty thing explored more. its a concept Ive always really liked. be interesting to see someone's take on it.

Someday I may post my chapter, but its BA successor so Im a little skittish. Ill just lurk and be annoying for awhile longer :P

[Octavulg]

Firstly, all jump pack troops is hardly worth fighting over. All-Terminators, maybe. :P

 

Secondly, jump pack designs are incredibly rare. For a long time, the Imperium didn't have them at all. You need to come up with something that isn't a jump pack for your home world, Juan.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Now introducing, ROCKET BOOTS!

 

Pansy men use these use packs to fly around, real men fly on ROCKETS POWERED BY MANLINESS!

 

Why use a jump pack when you can ROCKET KICK SOMEONE IN THE FACE!

 

*ahem* And thats my powerthirst homage for the year.

 

Back on topic, I'm really digging the idea of a loyalty chapter. Maybe have some kind of odd tradition that when an outsider satisfies it, the chapter is immediately loyal unto death to that person.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Expanded the Homeworld section and changed the jump pack to something else.

 

Thoughts? I think part of the Homeworld section that deals with the code could be transplanted to the Beliefs section as well.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Seriously - include a lot of Jump Packs, have less other stuff, but all jump packs is already taken.

 

This is not right at all. You can't exclude anyone else from the use of any doctrine, concept or tactic in their IA just because it may have already been used by someone else. There have been many cases in the Liber of two or more very similar chapters cropping up at the same time using many of the same concepts and ideas.

 

It was in their execution and final workings that many of them became unique from each other.

 

No, you cannot copyright anything just because you're using it. Otherwise no other chapter could use axes, live on an ice world or drink ale (Space Wolves), use stealth and guile instead of brute force (Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Raven Guard), use large forces of jump pack troops (Blood Angels, Flesh Tearers, Raven Guard). The list could go on for some time and virtually kill all DIY IA's in development here deader than Elvis.

 

You do not have dibs on any concept in regards to DIY IA creation, ever.

 

Not only that but it is hugely pathetic and petulant to demand that someone else give up what they want for their chapter simply because you think you got there first. Picture a kindergartener.

 

"I used the red glitter first! I want it! Give it back!" *stamps foot, wails*

 

Seriously, what a load of egotistical rubbish.

 

If you honestly think your IA or your idea is more deserving then put the effort into it to make it the best DIY it can be rather than bitching about how someone else stole your idea. Nothing in 40k, hell in the entire world, is totally unique and new. Originality and what makes a chapter interesting is how these concepts are brought together and presented by the author, not how special he is for coming up with something many other people have come up with before him.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I have expanded the beliefs to tie in with the homeworld, thoughts?

 

What worries me is still the geneseed, as I find this may play a key part in expanding the origins of the Chapter.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Have had a few thoughts, mainly regarding the battlecry; as I'm going to emphasise the loyal aspect of the Chapter, I thought about using some version of Semper Fidelis but not that exact cry, or motto.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Its definitely starting to shape up. I like the Semper Fidelis motto...

 

The homeworld and beliefs section are good, its definitely starting to piece together and flow well.

 

I'll let you know if I come up with anything for geneseed

[Captain Juan Juarez]

So... I've tweaked the Organisation and added a Battlecry; Loyal Unto Death, with the possibility of either the "English" or Latin version.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Seriously - include a lot of Jump Packs, have less other stuff, but all jump packs is already taken.

 

This is not right at all. You can't exclude anyone else from the use of any doctrine, concept or tactic in their IA just because it may have already been used by someone else. There have been many cases in the Liber of two or more very similar chapters cropping up at the same time using many of the same concepts and ideas.

 

It was in their execution and final workings that many of them became unique from each other.

 

No, you cannot copyright anything just because you're using it. Otherwise no other chapter could use axes, live on an ice world or drink ale (Space Wolves), use stealth and guile instead of brute force (Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Raven Guard), use large forces of jump pack troops (Blood Angels, Flesh Tearers, Raven Guard). The list could go on for some time and virtually kill all DIY IA's in development here deader than Elvis.

 

You do not have dibs on any concept in regards to DIY IA creation, ever.

 

Not only that but it is hugely pathetic and petulant to demand that someone else give up what they want for their chapter simply because you think you got there first. Picture a kindergartener.

 

"I used the red glitter first! I want it! Give it back!" *stamps foot, wails*

 

Seriously, what a load of egotistical rubbish.

 

If you honestly think your IA or your idea is more deserving then put the effort into it to make it the best DIY it can be rather than bitching about how someone else stole your idea. Nothing in 40k, hell in the entire world, is totally unique and new. Originality and what makes a chapter interesting is how these concepts are brought together and presented by the author, not how special he is for coming up with something many other people have come up with before him.

 

Ydalir, you misunderstand.

 

I have no problem with him having a jumppack heavy army - it's when it becomes all jumppack that I have a problem. I do not want us to have to similar chapters - they're close enough as is. Angels of Adamantium, Iron Angels; jumppack heavy...

 

Juan Juarez could probably pull of the idea better than I could - because of that, he also has enough skill to change a chapter from being all jumppack wilst still keeping the character of the chapter.

 

I don't claim dibs on it anyways - my chapter does. It has already been made; it is only because of overwhelming advice (from you as well, if I remember correctly) that I work on one chapter at a time. Until I get to the chapter it waits in the wings, but it's still in the wings, already in existence.

 

Lastly, I don't want any beef between me and Juan. And on that topic, I think this thread shoulc stop being hijacked and get back to the chapter.

 

In all freindliness, Dark Apostle Thirst

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

"Forgive you? Forgiveness is between you and the Emperor, it is my job to arrange that meeting."

- Dreanought-Brother Horek, before slaying the renegade Sergeant Voraad.

 

Dreadnought, not dreanought. Awesome qoute, BTW :)

 

The Iron Angels are believed to be of the Seventh Founding as they first began to appear Imperial records shortly after 659.M32. The Chapter was founded in response to an increase in Traitor Legion attacks in the area of space surrounding Cypra Mundi

 

I beleive this has been touched upon, that beleived to be of seventh founding and yet they know why they were founded? :pinch:

 

Copies of this technology, necessitating the relocation of three smaller townships, were donated to the Adeptus Mechanicum as a gesture of good will which allowed the majority of townships to remain intact; a gesture which over time has culminated in fairly cordial relations with local Forgeworlds.

 

A gesture of good will... in the 40k universe.... Maybe a favor, (or multiple favors) for the Mechanicum? Something like "Alright, well crush rebelions and heretics at locations x y and z so you don't have to lose men, in return we get some antigrav".

 

Whilst as a world Jericia consists of mountain ranges beyond number, there are also a number of rivers and lakes formed in the valleys between the ranges; it is a status symbol, in fact, for a township to reside near a river or lake and many a battle has been fought over the waters of Jericia. These waters though, over the course of millions of years, are slowly eroding the mountains that the people of Jericia call home.

 

The lakes are slowly eroding the mountains, but if there aren't as many rivers as there are mountains, they can always find new ones on the planet...?

 

 

Gotta go soon, but I'm liking the Ia so far

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Just to point something out...

 

You do "claim dibs" on the concept, because by definition your Chapter is an extension of you.

[Walter Payton]

I have no problem with him having a jumppack heavy army - it's when it becomes all jumppack that I have a problem. I do not want us to have to similar chapters - they're close enough as is. Angels of Adamantium, Iron Angels; jumppack heavy...

 

I don't claim dibs on it anyways - my chapter does. It has already been made; it is only because of overwhelming advice (from you as well, if I remember correctly) that I work on one chapter at a time. Until I get to the chapter it waits in the wings, but it's still in the wings, already in existence.

 

Lastly, I don't want any beef between me and Juan. And on that topic, I think this thread shoulc stop being hijacked and get back to the chapter.

 

ATTENTION ALL IA WRITERS-I AM CURRENTLY WRITING A CHAPTER, BUILDING ON THE CORPSE(S) OF THE OTHER ONES I HAVE WRITTEN, CALLED THE CRIMSON TALONS. THEY HAVE SANGUINIUS'S GENESEED, AND THEREFORE THE CURSE OF SANGUINIUS, AS SUCH, NO OTHER CHAPTER IN THE LIBER MAY DO SO, BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY DIBS'D THAT. SHOULD THEY ENTER THE LIBRARIUM, YOU WILL BE QUASI-LEGALLY REQUIRED TO REMOVE ALL OTHER BLOOD ANGELS' SUCCESSORS ALREADY THERE, BECAUSE I DID IT BEFORE THEM REALLY

 

Do not moan about a thread being hijacked when you start the argument with a school-playground bleat. You cannot claim an idea as general as all jump packs. It is cool, and therefore everyone has a right to it. It is like me claiming the Curse of Sanguinius, or being fleet-based. It is not an idea so specific that it can claim originality in this case-if his men could disappear like the Vengeance of Corax, I would understand, but here I do not see you greivance, I'm afraid, because you cannot claim a degree of ownership over it so as to be able to claim 'artistic theft' in this case.

 

Now, enough moaning at DAT, and onto the chapter itself:

 

For a motto, how about "per ignae et nex, semper fidelis Imperatori"-through the fire and death, always loyal to the Emperor, unless you have already got something

 

As for the rest of the IA, the Homeworld section is looking good, and I like the stuff about the Jerician tribes. Maybe a little less on recruitment, with a view to expanding that into a separate section, but that is your choice, and under your aegis.

 

The rest is good, and keep up the good work, although there is a few spelling and grammar mistakes, but they are not important yet.

 

:D

BCA

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Brother-Captain Alecto, thank you for your compliments and ideas.

 

I chose "Loyal Unto Death" but I may rob your idea for an inscription or on the Chapter banner or some such!

 

My main problem with this IA has been it's construction; I feel I have the ideas but I'm worried about how to put it together as there is no "standard" beyond having Origin/Homeworld/etc.

 

Spelling and grammar are not something I'm concerned about right now, as I want to get the content first, but I admit some will have slipped through because I hate to edit!

 

Plus, "aegis" is one of my favourite words!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I have no problem with him having a jumppack heavy army - it's when it becomes all jumppack that I have a problem. I do not want us to have to similar chapters - they're close enough as is. Angels of Adamantium, Iron Angels; jumppack heavy...

 

I don't claim dibs on it anyways - my chapter does. It has already been made; it is only because of overwhelming advice (from you as well, if I remember correctly) that I work on one chapter at a time. Until I get to the chapter it waits in the wings, but it's still in the wings, already in existence.

 

Lastly, I don't want any beef between me and Juan. And on that topic, I think this thread shoulc stop being hijacked and get back to the chapter.

 

ATTENTION ALL IA WRITERS-I AM CURRENTLY WRITING A CHAPTER, BUILDING ON THE CORPSE(S) OF THE OTHER ONES I HAVE WRITTEN, CALLED THE CRIMSON TALONS. THEY HAVE SANGUINIUS'S GENESEED, AND THEREFORE THE CURSE OF SANGUINIUS, AS SUCH, NO OTHER CHAPTER IN THE LIBER MAY DO SO, BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY DIBS'D THAT. SHOULD THEY ENTER THE LIBRARIUM, YOU WILL BE QUASI-LEGALLY REQUIRED TO REMOVE ALL OTHER BLOOD ANGELS' SUCCESSORS ALREADY THERE, BECAUSE I DID IT BEFORE THEM REALLY

 

Do not moan about a thread being hijacked when you start the argument with a school-playground bleat. You cannot claim an idea as general as all jump packs. It is cool, and therefore everyone has a right to it. It is like me claiming the Curse of Sanguinius, or being fleet-based. It is not an idea so specific that it can claim originality in this case-if his men could disappear like the Vengeance of Corax, I would understand, but here I do not see you greivance, I'm afraid, because you cannot claim a degree of ownership over it so as to be able to claim 'artistic theft' in this case.

 

Where we see unique differs, due to opinion basing. I see it as different and unique, due to the fact when I first wrote the IA for the chapter, well, it was pretty original. I don't the thread is still there on Warseer, and I'm glad it's not, but if you could see it most people thought it was stupid, not cool. People in the Liber think differently (Thanking God for that one), but I do think that is original enough to claim artistic theft. However, that is based upon opinion, so if you'll excuse me I think I will get back to evaluating Juan Juarez's Ia for the Iron Angels.

 

"Honour is a very real and valuable thing to the natives, it informs them of who they are and any slights to honour often result in honour duels."

 

I like, I like... perhaps making something on their clothes (like throwing down the gauntlet or the glove) that they can hang loose, ready to be attacked - almost daring someone else to do so - so that they can clearly represent their honor? Maybe the color can vary from caste to caste, or family to family?

 

"The Jerician code has been absorbed into the Chapter and also informs the actions of the Iron Angels upon the political and military fields of battle."

 

Woah, are you saying if two sergeants have a Tsu'gan / Dakir type of relationship they are required to kill each other? Your chapter is going to start losing marines vveeeerrryyy fast....

 

Somehow, I don't think that's what you want ;)

 

"few Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes possess loyalty so extremem as to be valuable"

 

Extreme, not extremem

 

"even the lowliest Scout can become Chapter Master if he possesses the right aptitude."

 

With time, and all the implants, and crapton of experience...

 

 

"The honour duels that pervade Jerician society are conducted far less frequently in the Chapter, though Brothers have crossed blades because of real or imagined slights."

 

Contradictory with what was mentioned above.

 

"Typically the Iron Angels do not field Tactical or Devastator Squads, thought they possess the capacity to do so, instead the bulk of the Chapters strength lays in its Assault Squads which are generally

 

supported by Landspeeder squadrons, with Scouts used to pinpoint high priority targets for forward elements to neutralise or capture"

 

Undo the enter key typo.

 

"All Battle-Brothers, from the newly incuted up to the Chapter Master, are trained to use a jump pack in accordance with the typical method of warfare of the Iron Angels. On occasions when such methods

 

are impossible or inadvisable, however, the training that eayrother recieves in a secondary role comes into effect; for example Heavy Weapons training to form a Devastator Squad."

 

Again, Enter key typo. eayother = every other? inducted, not incuted

 

Also, Juan, you're a great guy. ^_^

 

"The Iron Angels follow the standard organisation structure of ten Comapnies "

 

Companies

 

"Above all the Companies lays the Chapter Masters Household force of approximately forty men, a practice gleaned from the retinues of wealthy nobles from Jericia, which consists of Veteran Brothers, Chapter Specialists and certain promising Battle-Brothers.

The First Company numbers around eighty Veterans and, unlike a standard Veteran Company, do not use the Chapters few suits of Tactical Dreadnought Armour; that role reserved for the Chapter Masters Household."

 

Less veterans! That's brilliant! I think that's a first, well done. Actually, I was going to do that, but since I haven't started a chapter around it yet, I think I'll drop it.

 

One question, however, it sounds kinda funny - their chaplains, captains, librarians, apoethecaries, and the Chapter Master all have TDA - but noone else? Who helps out the captains and the chaplains when they charge then?

 

Just sounded kinda funny.

 

"The Ninth Company are known as the \'Headhunters\'"

 

Drop the \\ nonsense. usually it's just... what are these things '' called again?

 

" following a short and bloody campaign upon Darza"

 

Two things - 1), I get that they were called the 'Headhunters' after the campaign, but that isn't what it looked like. 2), sounds like Durza - a very bloody being mentioned one of the most famous modern fantasy books, known as Eragon. If you don't get the reference, that's fine, but it sounds like you changed a letter and copied it. So, um, find another name B)

 

And that's all the mistakes I have found.

[Ace Debonair]

Right, back to work. I'll just take a quick look at the Just before I get some breakf-

 

:lol:

 

What just happened?

 

 

Well, this is interesting. Reading through I'm hard pushed to find any big, obvious flaws, or indeed many other faults short of a few grammar bits.

I'm intrigued by what you have planned for the colours this time round. If you don't have anything planned, do you want me to run something up?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I like, I like... perhaps making something on their clothes (like throwing down the gauntlet or the glove) that they can hang loose, ready to be attacked - almost daring someone else to do so - so that they can clearly represent their honor? Maybe the color can vary from caste to caste, or family to family?

- I had thought of that, but I think that is just a minor detail to be honest!

 

Woah, are you saying if two sergeants have a Tsu'gan / Dakir type of relationship they are required to kill each other? Your chapter is going to start losing marines vveeeerrryyy fast....

- I'm pretty sure I never stated that, so you may be overestimating the effect - Any cultural influence would be diluted to a certain degree in any Chapter given that Astartes from another Chapter are originally involved in its creation with their own "way". Honour duels would occur, in extreme circumstances, but its more about their relationship with other Chapters - slights and comments would not be tolerated.

 

even the lowliest Scout can become Chapter Master if he possesses the right aptitude."

 

With time, and all the implants, and crapton of experience...

- Yes, but my point was that in the caste system of Jericia you can only rise so far, a practice that was not absorbed by the Chapter.

 

Less veterans! That's brilliant! I think that's a first, well done. Actually, I was going to do that, but since I haven't started a chapter around it yet, I think I'll drop it.

 

One question, however, it sounds kinda funny - their chaplains, captains, librarians, apoethecaries, and the Chapter Master all have TDA - but noone else? Who helps out the captains and the chaplains when they charge then?

- Only the Masters Household troops have TDA - So the veterans, promising Battle-Brothers and various specialists - This is because the Chapter possess few suits of it.

 

Two things - 1), I get that they were called the 'Headhunters' after the campaign, but that isn't what it looked like. 2), sounds like Durza - a very bloody being mentioned one of the most famous modern fantasy books, known as Eragon. If you don't get the reference, that's fine, but it sounds like you changed a letter and copied it. So, um, find another name

- Eragon, heard of it but never read it!

 

Right, back to work. I'll just take a quick look at the Just before I get some breakf-

 

:cuss

 

What just happened?

 

 

Well, this is interesting. Reading through I'm hard pushed to find any big, obvious flaws, or indeed many other faults short of a few grammar bits.

I'm intrigued by what you have planned for the colours this time round. If you don't have anything planned, do you want me to run something up?

 

I couldn't go any further with the Just.. So I altered it! :cuss

 

Surprise!

 

Colour scheme wise... No idea, I did think of sticking with the Just scheme, but that seems a bit bland!

 

 

EDIT: Have taken out all the bad spellings that I can find.

[Ecritter]

I checked and no one has done it before, so I officially claim the letters 'J', 'Q' and 'V' both in capital and small case. All further use of those letters will require payment to me (paypal will work).

 

Chapter is shaping up nicely, good work.

[Octavulg]

I claim the concept of IAs.

[Ecritter]

I futher claim the terms 'claim' and 'dibs'. Now anyone that claims anything must pay me.

[Octavulg]

I make known my ownership of the concept of language.

 

EDIT: (HA!)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I claim the concept of IAs.

 

 

I futher claim the terms 'claim' and 'dibs'. Now anyone that claims anything must pay me.

 

 

I make known my ownership of the concept of language.

 

EDIT: (HA!)

 

Thank you for that in depth analysis of my budding IA... ;)

 

Are there any actual concerns currently?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I have had a thought regarding honour debts between the Iron Angels and other Chapters or organisations.

 

In WHFB the Dwarves have a Book of Grudges and I've considered using that concept for recording all the debts of honour the Chapter still must repay.

 

Thoughts? Too... Odd?

[Octavulg]

I'll need three-fifty for your continued use of language.

 

I don't get the grav-town thing. It doesn't seem necessary - last I checked, people have managed to build things on the sides of mountains without the need for anti-gravity devices. I also have a very hard time picturing what you mean in my mind. Also, it would seem easier to fly than to build bridges between towns.

 

Obvious point(s) for expansion - where do the Space Marines tie into this loyalty. How does the Jerician view of loyalty continue within the Chapter? Have the strict castes had any effect on the methods of promotion, command and structure of the Chapter? Figure that out, then provide some interesting and characterful examples for the chapter, and I think you'll be pretty well set up.

 

In regard to the jump-pack - I think it'd work better if you emphasized its glider nature and simply expounded about how piloting them instills similar principles to those necessary for the skillful operation of Asartes jump-packs - the Imperium lost jump-packs after the heresy, and it took a while to rediscover them. Your home world shouldn't have anything too jump-packy.

 

EDIT: Book of Grudges sounds neat, though you should probably rename it.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I have had a thought regarding honour debts between the Iron Angels and other Chapters or organisations.

 

In WHFB the Dwarves have a Book of Grudges and I've considered using that concept for recording all the debts of honour the Chapter still must repay.

 

Thoughts? Too... Odd?

 

It should also be a dataslate or something else electronic, but I quite like the idea.