Deathwatch: The RPG

[Something Wycked]

They may have designed them to be compatible, but it's an extremely loose fit. Lvl5 Dark Heresy characters will always outclass starting Rogue Trader characters in nearly every way, Space Marines will always be the shining star in a game and steal all the glory if there's even 20% combat and Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader characters in Deathwatch will get killed in the first few seconds - especially without any real way of dealing with Hordes.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it just seems... Weird. It'd be like if they released an expansion for Dark Heresy that had rules for space ships and stations (different from RT ones) and had a few rules for integrating them over to Rogue Trader. It just seems like a waste of space, especially since they'll have to include rules for all of the implants and such.

You are incorrect in a couple of respects which might explain why you think its unplayable.

 

There's a sidebar in one of the books (Rogue Trader, IIRC) that explains how to bring DH characters into a RT game, and there's a similar sidebar in Deathwatch that explains how to bring DH and RT into DW. Put simply, each "expansion" has a "starting XP value" for the base characters when compared with DH. Apply #XP to a DH character to bring them into a RT game, and apply #XP to a DH character to bring them into a DW game, or #XP to bring a RT character into a DW game.

 

RT and DH characters will not get killed "in the first few seconds" in a DW game if they're smart players (and the GM isn't outright trying to kill them off) and they have plenty they can do against hordes. In fact, a properly geared DH/RT character can do more to a horde than a Marine without the right equipment- explosive weapons and template weapons do a number on hordes easily, regardless of who's wielding them.

 

Marines will outshine everything in combat, yes. The RPG is written to honor the fluff, not the tabletop, and therefore does not have to be balanced. There is a sidebar in one of the books that explains that, too. Some things will always be imbalanced versus others, because the 40k universe is not a fair place to live. This is not an MMO, not all characters should have the ability to defeat every other type. This is a tabletop RPG where the goal is a fun story, a fun experience- the goal is not to give every player an equal chance of "winning".

[eyescrossed]

You are incorrect in a couple of respects which might explain why you think its unplayable.

 

There's a sidebar in one of the books (Rogue Trader, IIRC) that explains how to bring DH characters into a RT game, and there's a similar sidebar in Deathwatch that explains how to bring DH and RT into DW. Put simply, each "expansion" has a "starting XP value" for the base characters when compared with DH. Apply #XP to a DH character to bring them into a RT game, and apply #XP to a DH character to bring them into a DW game, or #XP to bring a RT character into a DW game.

I know about those sidebars.

 

 

RT and DH characters will not get killed "in the first few seconds" in a DW game if they're smart players (and the GM isn't outright trying to kill them off) and they have plenty they can do against hordes. In fact, a properly geared DH/RT character can do more to a horde than a Marine without the right equipment- explosive weapons and template weapons do a number on hordes easily, regardless of who's wielding them.

I'll agree with that somewhat, but what if the character is a melee character? What do you do? Just not participate in combat?

 

 

Marines will outshine everything in combat, yes. The RPG is written to honor the fluff, not the tabletop, and therefore does not have to be balanced. There is a sidebar in one of the books that explains that, too. Some things will always be imbalanced versus others, because the 40k universe is not a fair place to live. This is not an MMO, not all characters should have the ability to defeat every other type. This is a tabletop RPG where the goal is a fun story, a fun experience- the goal is not to give every player an equal chance of "winning".

We had a campaign once. Dark Heresy but with one Deathwatch Marine. It must've been hard for the GM to find the right balance because the Marine would either kill every single opponent before we could or he'd be facing things nearly on par with him and we'd get killed. It wasn't fun, especially since we had to change our tactics massively. For example, we couldn't go into a bar and bribe people. Well we could, but the Marine would have to stay outside.

 

(it was a campaign based on a Genestealer infestation in a hive city, long story)

[Something Wycked]

Well, judging from how I saw our Black Templar Assault Marine do against a horde, I'd recommend that melee characters don't get into melee with hordes at all :P He fought a small magnitude group of Guardians and did okay (they weren't getting all the extra damage dice), but we then fought a 120 magnitude Ork horde and he was doing iirc 2 magnitude damage with each swing, so with his 2 swings (if he hit both times) he'd do 4 magnitude damage per turn... While the horde could do about half his wounds after armor/toughness.

 

Compared to the heavy flamer and heavy bolter Devastators, doing ~9 and 30 magnitude per turn respectively. Needless to say, the Assault Marine didn't get into melee with the massive Ork horde lol

 

That could have been either be a GM issue or a group issue; if the DH characters are getting between a Marine and Genestealers, they're going to die, yes. That's grimdark for you. If the GM sent Genestealers after the DH characters, he was wrong. To make the game fun the GM needs to make the Marine the highest priority target (Genestealers aren't stupid- they can prioritize threats with the best of the 'nids) and that lets the DH characters support the Marine while he takes the lumps for them.

 

Likewise, if the combat is against lesser entities that the Marine is going to slaughter, the GM needs to remove the Marine from that combat equation somehow- a good way is to separate the Marine from the group. Getting left behind is bad, because that's boring, but he could be given a special assignment away from the group or something along those lines. That way everyone is doing something, and nobody is outshining anybody else.

 

By the way, my apologies for sounding like a :) in the last post, I got the wrong impression about you. Sorry!

Edited April 12, 2011 by Something Wycked

[eyescrossed]

Well, judging from how I saw our Black Templar Assault Marine do against a horde, I'd recommend that melee characters don't get into melee with hordes at all :) He fought a small magnitude group of Guardians and did okay (they weren't getting all the extra damage dice), but we then fought a 120 magnitude Ork horde and he was doing iirc 2 magnitude damage with each swing, so with his 2 swings (if he hit both times) he'd do 4 magnitude damage per turn... While the horde could do about half his wounds after armor/toughness.

 

Compared to the heavy flamer and heavy bolter Devastators, doing ~9 and 30 magnitude per turn respectively. Needless to say, the Assault Marine didn't get into melee with the massive Ork horde lol

True, true. Haha.

 

 

That could have been either be a GM issue or a group issue; if the DH characters are getting between a Marine and Genestealers, they're going to die, yes. That's grimdark for you. If the GM sent Genestealers after the DH characters, he was wrong. To make the game fun the GM needs to make the Marine the highest priority target (Genestealers aren't stupid- they can prioritize threats with the best of the 'nids) and that lets the DH characters support the Marine while he takes the lumps for them.

 

Likewise, if the combat is against lesser entities that the Marine is going to slaughter, the GM needs to remove the Marine from that combat equation somehow- a good way is to separate the Marine from the group. Getting left behind is bad, because that's boring, but he could be given a special assignment away from the group or something along those lines. That way everyone is doing something, and nobody is outshining anybody else.

Hmm. True. The GM was a little inexperienced too, so that would've caused issues.

 

 

By the way, my apologies for sounding like a <_< in the last post, I got the wrong impression about you. Sorry!

Don't worry about it, haha.

[Chengar Qordath]

To toss a few experiences from my most recent session out...

 

173: Never equip an Ork Big Mek with a Shokk Gun unless you're fine with there being a chance that the boss fight will end when the aforementioned Mek blows himself and his big fancy tank up on a bad roll. (Which is half of why I did that in the first place; the other half being the sadistic joy of sticking insane, screaming, biting, and defecating Snotling inside my players' armor)

173a: The impact of rule 173 will be lessened if the party's Assault Marine and Watch Captain are within the radius of said explosion.

 

174: Carefully hidden snipers do not work so well when the party's Librarian has the Compel power.

174a: Which is why you snipe the Assault Marine, and then snipe the Apothecary when he runs up to retrieve and treat the Assault Marine instead.

 

175: Whenever one of your players spends several minutes idly flipping through the rulebook, then suddenly stops and smiles, it is time to be afraid.

[Something Wycked]

175: Whenever one of your players spends several minutes idly flipping through the rulebook, then suddenly stops and smiles, it is time to be afraid.

XD our GM has made it verboten to read any source book while in the middle of a session.

[DarkSavage]

176: One player will want to play as one of the traitor legions and when told no, will complain and say that it's pre-heresy Edited April 22, 2011 by DarkSavage

[Techmarine Data007]

But see, in that case you're not a real Kill-Team, IMO. You SHOULD have 2-7 more guys. 2 NPCs probably being the way to do it.

 

We had:

Ultramarines Devastator (me)

Ultramarines Apothecary

Space Wolf Assault Marine

Black Templar Assault Marine

Blood Angel Techmarine

 

High Five from a fellow Blue Boy with a Big Gun . Oh no, I just realized if we start an Ultramarines group, it will be called the Blue Man Group.

 

177: Upon reading Rites of Battle, one player will want to be a Dreadnought, despite the drawbacks. No exceptions.

[Something Wycked]

177: Upon reading Rites of Battle, one player will want to be a Dreadnought, despite the drawbacks. No exceptions.

Confirmed. Who needs stealth?

[The Raku]

Rule 178: A techmarine will start creating Servo skulls from the heads of the dead, and make an arm of tiny floating minion heads. Akin to gathering skulls..(Sound familiar? *Cough Khorne Cough*)

rule 179: Said techmarine will find a landspeeder and dismantle it, resulting in a crazy as hell bojjob jumpack.

rule 180: Techmarine would them fly around making aeroplane noises and look for more stuff to steal / dismantle and re-create strange equipment with a very Orcish mindset.

181: Techmarine would then hand out the re-created devices such as bombs, combi-weapons, explosive rounds and teleport homers for his mini servo-skull army as he wooshes around making aeroplane noises.

182: Upon receiving gear from said techmarine, the other party members will facepalm at said techmarine for getheringskulls and having his orcish tinkering mindset.

183: Said techmarine would then threaten them all with his new servo-skull army, for being so insolent and threatening him.

184: For no known reason upon hearing the words Orcish mindset,and accusations of Khornate skull gathering, an inquisitor listening to the vox channel would raise an eyebrow, and virus bomb the planet in several minutes, erradicating all life with the juris diction of the inquisitorial seal.

 

Jus' sayin' Could happen. *shrug*

Edited May 8, 2011 by The Raku

[Codicier Lucion]

185: If the players can see the Tau, the Tau are dead. If the players cannot see the Tau, then they are dead marines walking.

186: This does not apply if one marine is hanging upside down out of a descending drop pod with a sniper rifle and picks off the GM's carefully placed pathfinders one by one. Then uses the pod to crush one broadside then taking the other in close combat and winning.

 

I am dead serious, that happened. And it was awesome.

[The Raku]

186: This does not apply if one marine is hanging upside down out of a descending drop pod with a sniper rifle and picks off the GM's carefully placed pathfinders one by one. Then uses the pod to crush one broadside then taking the other in close combat and winning.

 

I am dead serious, that happened. And it was awesome.

 

That marine must have some serious kickass armour to hang upside down out of a drop pod when its literally fired from 3457898 feet at god knows what mph, defy the wind blowing up at him w/o blowing away, and resisting not only the wind, but its friction whichwould most likely cook him alive inside his armour, along with the pods anti-grav thrusters, which when activated would most likely cause the scent of BBQ'd marine to fill the air..

 

And be able to not only hold a weapon in his grasp at that kind of windspeed, But take aim and kill pathfinders at range with the precision of a sniper rifle...

 

I have this image of a marines armour visor flashing red with warning runes at the heat, and overloading his magna-clamping boots.

 

Surely, this marine must be the chuck norris of the Astartes to defy logic in such a way.

 

I'd say he needs a promotion.

[Codicier Lucion]

That marine must have some serious kickass armour to hang upside down out of a drop pod when its literally fired from 3457898 feet at god knows what mph, defy the wind blowing up at him w/o blowing away, and resisting not only the wind, but its friction whichwould most likely cook him alive inside his armour, along with the pods anti-grav thrusters, which when activated would most likely cause the scent of BBQ'd marine to fill the air..

 

And be able to not only hold a weapon in his grasp at that kind of windspeed, But take aim and kill pathfinders at range with the precision of a sniper rifle...

 

I have this image of a marines armour visor flashing red with warning runes at the heat, and overloading his magna-clamping boots.

 

Surely, this marine must be the chuck norris of the Astartes to defy logic in such a way.

 

I'd say he needs a promotion.

 

It would take me a long time to explain the full series of events in detail, assuming I can remember them in detail from a month ago, but you got a couple of parts wrong. He wasn't hanging onto the outside of the pod when they fired it and clung on as he sped through the upper atmosphere, even this guy wasn't that insane.

The rest of it you more or less got right though, and did ended up passing enough toughness, strength, perception etc tests to just make me give up and let him go on with it for a while.

 

He did need lots of bionics afterwards, though that was in part due to what the broadside did to him at close range.

[Something Wycked]

He wasn't hanging onto the outside of the pod when they fired it and clung on as he sped through the upper atmosphere, even this guy wasn't that insane.

How else are we to interpret "hanging upside down out of a descending drop pod"? lol

[Urias Snowlord Spencer]

187. Upon learning that one of their own party has a "dark past", Cannibalism will ensue.

[Chengar Qordath]

187. Upon learning that one of their own party has a "dark past", Cannibalism will ensue.

My players did everything they could to find new and inventive ways to abuse the Omophagea. I only managed to break them of that bad habit by tossing them a few inedible/hazardous to eat enemies.

[Codicier Lucion]

How else are we to interpret "hanging upside down out of a descending drop pod"? lol

 

Point taken, I should have worded that better.

 

188. At least one player will always think that exterminatus is the solution to everything and suggest it at every turn.

[Brother Nihm]

"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

[Urias Snowlord Spencer]

187. Upon learning that one of their own party has a "dark past", Cannibalism will ensue.

My players did everything they could to find new and inventive ways to abuse the Omophagea. I only managed to break them of that bad habit by tossing them a few inedible/hazardous to eat enemies.

 

We had our game last night and there was a period of about 6-7 minutes where every player character was either spitting acid or eating stuff.

 

Which brings me on to:

 

189. When in doubt, Spit Acid.

[spiros14]

190. never play if you think the mission is inspired from lost, it will go on... and on... and on.

[vharing]

187. Upon learning that one of their own party has a "dark past", Cannibalism will ensue.

My players did everything they could to find new and inventive ways to abuse the Omophagea. I only managed to break them of that bad habit by tossing them a few inedible/hazardous to eat enemies.

 

We had our game last night and there was a period of about 6-7 minutes where every player character was either spitting acid or eating stuff.

 

Which brings me on to:

 

189. When in doubt, Spit Acid.

 

My players did this to an obscene amount. The would kill 100 random enemies and then stop and sample everyone. They never learned anything of value from it ever, but they still tried. And one player even asked how he can spit acid with his helmet on.

[Something Wycked]

I know a guy who is that kind of player. We were going through the ruins of an Imperial facility and found our way into the staff locker room. The GM told us straight up there was nothing in any of the lockers... and this guy rolled to search the lockers. That is, he rolled to search each of the lockers- one roll for each locker.

 

"What's in this one?"

"Nothing."

"What's in this one?"

"Nothing, like I told you before you started rolling."

"What's in this one?"

"Nothing."

"Whats in this one?"

:lol:

 

We don't game with him much.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Something Wycked

[Hfran Morkai]

Rule 191. Upon scrutinizing a wall upon a (partially organic) spaceship and determining in fact it is indeed a wall and looks to be recently constructed do not suggest that one member of the team punches through the wall, even jokingly.

 

Because they will, the vacuum of space is not kind to marines in Carapace.

 

Rule 192. Bring a siege auspex to determine whats on the other side of walls before destroying them.

 

Rule 193. Maintenance tunnels upon starships are not always designed for Space Marines, resulting in time wasted and potential discovery.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Ever found a hollywood bolter? Me neither.

 

Had a player run around blazing full auto with his bolter. He wasn't counting ammo but as a dutiful (and sadistic) GM I was. When he ran out we had a half hour argument about the damn thing.

 

Why do players think minor details like ammunitio don't apply to Astartes?

[Hfran Morkai]

Ever found a hollywood bolter? Me neither.

 

Had a player run around blazing full auto with his bolter. He wasn't counting ammo but as a dutiful (and sadistic) GM I was. When he ran out we had a half hour argument about the damn thing.

 

Why do players think minor details like ammunitio don't apply to Astartes?

 

Because 90% of people don't model ammo pouches and the like to their Marines so I guess they assume they magically generate ammunition (I don't model them on but if the Wolves run out of ammo its all good, they've still got close combat to look forward to).

 

Most interestingly is where do Terminators put their extra ammunition? I used the ammo rules but was trying to figure out where to stash them.