Ollieb Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 So, i was having a think last night and i seem to recall once reading that each of the primarch's represented a different part of the Emperors personality. Just wondering if anyone has ever thought which parts of his personality each primarch represents? If we could identify these traits then it would maybe leave some possibilites for the missing 2 primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think in regards to that quote its in the broadest general sense. While in context it sounds fine, it doesn't really take into account the Primarch's actual characters and how they shaped and changed. Its always been a generalization. I mean, while some are obvious like Magnus and his abilities, others its harder to pin down. I mean, does Horus, Russ, Khan or Angron represent the Emperor's aggression? Why does Sanguinuis and Fulgrim both seem to represent perfectionism? In what aspect does Dorn's mastery of defence mark him aside from Perturabo, or his Legions skills from the Ultramarines. The Emperor's many aspects are simply not represented equally throughout his sons, and so i disagree with the theory. If anyone wants to try and make a list they think explains it, i'd gladly read it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Smash Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Hmm. Magnus- is a given. Horus- His ability to "read" characters and to manipulate people. (a wild guess, but I'm fairly certain that the Emperor would've manipulated more than a few people in his time.) Dorn- Wasn't he a bit up himself and relativley arrogant? That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'll post more if I remember anything that I've forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollieb Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 To expand a bit. Angron is clearly his agresive side. Lorgar would maybe be desire/greed? or maybe this would be horus. I think russ would be passion. Im sure im not alone in feeling that there must be some form of historical context for the design and number of the primarch's. The guys at GW must have got there ideas from somewhere (i mean why 20 legions?). Maybe an odd point but i seem to remember watching QI the other day and stephen fry mentioning the patriarchs who were some type of biblical characters, maybe these are related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I think in regards to that quote its in the broadest general sense. While in context it sounds fine, it doesn't really take into account the Primarch's actual characters and how they shaped and changed. Its always been a generalization. I mean, while some are obvious like Magnus and his abilities, others its harder to pin down. I mean, does Horus, Russ, Khan or Angron represent the Emperor's aggression? Why does Sanguinuis and Fulgrim both seem to represent perfectionism? In what aspect does Dorn's mastery of defence mark him aside from Perturabo, or his Legions skills from the Ultramarines. The Emperor's many aspects are simply not represented equally throughout his sons, and so i disagree with the theory. If anyone wants to try and make a list they think explains it, i'd gladly read it..... I've always sorta assumed that was what they were supposed to be, yeah. Or at least, how they'd be viewed in the universe itself. I have a list quite like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Horus is ambition. Lorgar is faith. Jonson is either arrogance or secretiveness. Russ is impulsiveness. Vulkan is compassion. Sanguinius is purity. Fulgrim is perfectionism. Perturabo is self-hatred. Magnus is his thirst for knowledge. Angron is his aggression. Dorn is his tenacity. Guilliman is his compulsion to organize and control. Curze is his cynicism. Alpharius is his suspicion. Khan, Ferrus Manus and Corax would need characters before they could be facets of his personality. ;) EDIT: Khan and Ferrus could be his looking to the past and to the future, respectively. And Corax could be...eh. I got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Corax is his urge to read poetry and wear berets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkana Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Corax would probably be the part of Him with good intentions that end up making things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 another flaw in your theory. why would angron be his agression,wasn't he made this aggresive by the implants he had when he became a gladiator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 yes but his rage was like that of the emperor before hand. soil your underwear scary, run away from the fight at all costs scary. The implants made it worse... as to say they turned him into little better than an animal with a chainglaive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Lessee. He was found surrounded by dead Dark Eldar, ordered his entire legion be implanted with those same implants, and used tactics that literally consisted of "Charge!". I don't think this can be entirely blamed on the implants. Especially if you go by the HH series, where people with the implants are demonstrated to be perfectly capable of thought, at least outside of combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain-Plonker Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Is it possible that in False Gods Horus kills one of the missing primarchs? He punches the incubator with one of the primarchs they never found in it and damages it, it starts leaking stuff and the baby primarch starts screaming. Obviously whether or not Horus killed it hinges on the question of whether the Chaos Gods were merely showing him a vision of the past or actually taking him there. It's possible either way as we know that the warp is fully capable of screwing around with time. As for the aspects of personality, I think it;s a bit hard to apply to some of the primarchs due to their underdeveloped characters or the possibility of other factors effecting their behaviour after they are sent to their seperate worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Is it possible that in False Gods Horus kills one of the missing primarchs? He punches the incubator with one of the primarchs they never found in it and damages it, it starts leaking stuff and the baby primarch starts screaming. In that vision Horus kills a fair few Custodes, while it's known that only 4-5 died before the heresy. Furthermore, the Emperor sees him. If this had been the past, then the Emperor's reunion with Horus would have been anything but happy. Plus, considering that the primarchs survived crashing through an atmosphere and into a planet in an incubation chamber, and survived without its support, I think the baby primarch would be okay with a bit of a leak in the tank. It was once rumored that one of the missing primarchs was Sigmar of Warhammer Fantasy fame (the comet which heralded his coming being his crashing incubator pod etc.), before games-workshop severed the connection between the two games. Still, one of the two might be a sci-fi-ized Sigmar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrl Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Horus is ambition. Lorgar is faith. Jonson is arrogance. Russ is impulsiveness. Vulkan is compassion. Sanguinius is purity. Fulgrim is perfectionism. Perturabo is loyalty. Magnus is his thirst for knowledge. Angron is his aggression. Dorn is his tenacity. Guilliman is control or structure. Curze is his cynicism. Alpharius is his suspicion. Khan is unification. Ferrus Manus is the ruthlessnes. Mortarion is hatred. Corax is freedom. Lion'El is undoubtedly his arrogance (see: fued with Russ, mishandling of Luther's own pride), plus Alpharius also covers his secrecism. I prefer to see Perturabo's fall as a result of his loyal acceptance of all orders - never once did he refuse a command, out of loyalty, but as this continued his displeasure and eventual (externalised) self-loathing became apparent but only as a result of his loyalty (Russ is a contender for Loyalty too). Guilliman - just reworded as a noun. Khan is a plainsmen, practically born in the saddle. He liberated his people from the established order of the world and drove the enemy before him, however he dreams of a galactic empire of men, while he does not wish to rule it himself he sees the importance of a unified humanity. Ferrus Manus embodies the Emperor's ruthlessness in so far as his refusal to accept the human form, he and his Legion sook to improve (but importantly they didn't strive for perfection as a goal unlike the EC) the human or Marine. I was torn between this and his aspect as a creator - master of the forge, the Emperor is supposed to have been pivotal in the creation of the original STC's afterall, but I felt that it was less an aspect of personality and more a measure of intelligence or learning. Corax was the liberator of his people before his Unification with the Emperor, he acted to defend the lower classes and this formed his motivation. That said he's probably also the Emperor's little Ninja - we've all got one inside right? :( Mortarion is hatred - he unified and freed the people of his planet but only out of a sense of hatred for his adoptive father, some argue that he felt the Emperor abused his motivation to force his acceptance - he set Mortarion the challenge knowing he could not succeed. EDIT: Khan and Ferrus could be his looking to the past and to the future, respectively. And Corax could be...eh. I got nothing. I quite like these two versions however when we think of the past from the Emperor's perspective the two are actually reversed - Ferrus Manus represents the previous Golden Age and Khan could represent the barbarous future under a fractious Imperium, I also find it hard to think of Khan on his bike as anything but cyber-punk, not really the picture of a Mongol horseman. Cyrl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Horus is charisma. It's said to exaustion in the HH. In the second book they say it clearly, mentioning that each primarch have a trait of the emperor, and Horus having the charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIV Deathlord Posted April 17, 2010 Share Posted April 17, 2010 It's funny, no one seems to have included the Emperor's weakness in any of the Primarchs. Maybe that's why one of the Primarchs has died. I know that representing his weakness seems silly, but it is part of his personality. And by being the Emperor's weak side, that's probably how one of the Primarchs died (maybe too weak to resist the temptations of chaos :) ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 It's funny, no one seems to have included the Emperor's weakness in any of the Primarchs. Maybe that's why one of the Primarchs has died. I know that representing his weakness seems silly, but it is part of his personality. And by being the Emperor's weak side, that's probably how one of the Primarchs died (maybe too weak to resist the temptations of chaos ;) ?) Ahhhh that actually throws an interesting spin on things - the two missing Primarchs were slapped out of existance because they highlighted weaknesses of the Emperor, not strengths (even though all those strengths were shown to have weaknesses individually...oh look I've given myself a headache). With shielding the Big E's weaknesses in mind, I'm thinking there was very good reason for expunging Primarch Butterballius of the Doughnut Warriors and Justus Timbrelaek of the Boyband Legion; imagine what Chaos could do with knowledge like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorinoFan Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 As an additional idea of what the Lion is, he could be the Emperors naivety of character. As an aside I thought the Primarchs are able to be determined by the 20 constellations of the 20 constellation zodiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Just my 2 pence; Sanguinius is purity but it is stated by Horus that he has all of the Emperors aspects within him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 One has to be female to represent the Emperors feminine side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torgaddon666 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Fair point. We have the following Horus is ambition. Lorgar is faith. Jonson is arrogance. Russ is impulsiveness. the 'b Vulkan is compassion. Sanguinius is purity. Fulgrim is perfectionism. Perturabo is loyalty. Magnus is his thirst for knowledge. Angron is his aggression. Dorn is his tenacity. Guilliman is control or structure. Curze is his cynicism. Alpharius is his suspicion. Khan is unification. Ferrus Manus is the ruthlessnes. Mortarion is hatred. Corax is freedom. I have to diasagree that Robute is control. He is more structured because it says in the nex C:SM that Guillman had 'Best organised mind of the primarchs.' Dorn is truthfulness because 'He could never tell a lie.' The two that are missing are control and loyalty. Then again has anyone thought that we have nineteen legions except we never thought the Emperor to be a primarch, because the Custodes are made from his flesh as are the blood angles from Sanguinious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Augustine Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I could be very wrong so stop me if I am, but I thought that it specifically stated that the Custodes were not Space Marines and were simply like Space Marines. Kind of like Luther and the other Knights of Caliban who were too old to receive gene-seed, but on a whole 'nother level. Also it states that the Emperor created 20 Primarchs and 2 of them have been wiped from the record books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monstra Sumus Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I've always been under the impression the Custodes were like mini-primarchs, you know, being immortal and all that jazz~ I mean hell Valdor is over ten thousand years old. A touch of fate had a hand in the Primarchs landing on human populated worlds, not human ruled, but human populated. I like to think the idea that they were never found and their Legions assimilated into the others or that when the Emperor found them before he found Horus they had not reached the measure of potential he expected and either destroyed them or just completely ignored their existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 In Soul Hunter its stated that the Emperor found all TWENTY of his Primarchs. So, unless this is terrible editing, two whole legions along with their primarchs were lost or wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 a brief timeline of the primarchs: -the Big E gets the idea of making 20 primarchs ... -he succeeds in making 20 primarchs, but the chaos gods scatter them throughout the galaxy -the great crusade, the Emperor united with ALL of his sons -some big huge event happens that causes two primarchs to be wiped from imperial records. This event was not a civil war, as in the horus heresy novels, it was stated that astartes vs astartes was unthinkable. Whatever it was, it was more serious than Horus turning against his father, or less successful. -the horus heresy, "fully half" of the primarchs turn against the emperor. Is this 9 or 10 primarchs though? -the 41 millenium, no one knows who the two unknown legions are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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