Dark Angels Kill Teams

[Darmor]

Battle Missions are here at last and with all those new standart missions comes Kill Team.

I'm pretty excited with this special mission and going to play some with my friends.

What do you think about this kind of game? Has anybody already played Kill Team using Unforgiven? What can we, Dark Angels, field on a table?

I already have a couple ideas about this and i'm interested in thoughts of my Battle-Brothers :)

P.S. Dark Angels Kill Team can be a great base for maybe a short story or two... What can be actually a better goal for such squad than hunting the Fallen? :)

[Bartali]

Yet to play a game of kill team myself, but I think Vets are the no brainer choice in our codex. Good stat line, and have the most options

[EPK]

This brings to mind ODM's Vet squad which consists of members of the each successor chapter -

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...t&p=2291263

 

The Unforgiven Kill team, recruited from the best of the chapters.

[YoungWolf7]

They finally brought back Kill Team? That's what got me to start collecting 40K in the first place. I wanted a small skirmish level game with individual models, not big squads. Now look at me. :lol:

[Plastic Rat]

Wait a second... YoungWolf7? THE YoungWolf7 from Warmachine fame? *passes out*

 

EDIT: *wakes up* Ok, what the hell made you go looking at 40k for a skirmish game after Warmachine? Also, what made you go to Dark Angels?

[YoungWolf7]

Found the rules online. :cry:

 

200 point limit.

0-1 Elite

0-2 Troops

0-1 Fast Attack

 

The 200 point ceiling rules out DW squads as they start @ 215. (Unless of course both players decide to adjust the points limit to 225~250.)

 

A 5~6 man Vet squad all tooled up would be effective.

 

It would allow a unit I've been toying with:

• 1 Techmarine w/ servo harness, bolt pistol, power weapon
  
• 2 Servitors w/ Plasma Cannon
  
• 1 Servitor w/ Heavy Bolter
  

195 points

 

You could squeeze a 4th Servitor w/ HB or MM in if you drop the servo harness.

 

Other options:

5 man Assault Squad

• Sarge w/ PP & PW, melta bombs
  
• 2 PP/Chain
  
• 2 BP/Chain
  

195 points

 

You could push it with this:

Ravenwing Attack Squadron

• 1 Sarge w/ BP/PW
  
• 2 Bikers w/ flamer (could bump one to melta if needed)
  
• 1 Attack Bike w/ HB (or MM)
  

195 points. (200 w/ melta)

 

You could really push it with this:

Ravenwing Support Squadron

• 3 Land Speeders w/ HB (or MM)
  

195 points

 

Although I feel that goes against the spirit of Kill Team personally.

 

10 man Scout Squad

• 1 Sarge w/ BP/PW
  
• 4 Scouts w/ Sniper Rifle
  
• 3 Scouts w/ Shotgun
  
• 1 Scout w/ ML
  

200 points

 

Your baseline 10 man Tactical squad is 165 points, leaving 35 to play with for upgrades. You could do worse I suppose.

 

This might actually get me to field Scouts! :D

[YoungWolf7]

Wait a second... YoungWolf7? THE YoungWolf7 from Warmachine fame? *passes out*

 

EDIT: *wakes up* Ok, what the hell made you go looking at 40k for a skirmish game after Warmachine? Also, what made you go to Dark Angels?

Yeah, that's me.

 

Kill Team was the gateway drug. I've always liked the look and fluff of the DA. Couple that with lots of behind the scenes drama in the WM scene and here I am.

[Dudds]

I've played a few and it's been pretty fun, and my squad's done surprisingly well. I took a Vet squad that came to 200 pts on the mark.

 

1 SB/PF

3 SB/PW

1 Meltagun

 

Unless my maths has been wrong all this time :P

 

P.S, Is the limit for 2 troop choices in KT games not 600pts?

[YoungWolf7]

As I read it it has a hard cap of 200 points no matter what you field. You're just limited by the force org slots. For example, I can't squeeze a Dread and min Scout squad in as that's 2 Elite slots. (Limit is 1.)

[breng77]

Well, I actually played a game today using 3 bikers and an attack bike and won pretty handily. The movement that it gave me really let me dictate terms to my opponent. I would say that flamers are not all that useful in KT simply because units do not have to maintain coherency so unless your opponent really groups up it is tough to hit them more than once, in which case I found myself favoring my twin linked bolter. The other thing in KT is that you get to give some of your troops USR, so those choices can make games tactically interesting.

[YoungWolf7]

Not having tried it I'm only speculating, but I would think that the flamer would actually be an advantage as it ignores cover saves. There should be tons of terrain and plenty of cover to get behind in a KT scenario. That's the only downside I see to bikers as they just can't work their way deep into cover.

[publius]

I played a few kill team games. My initial impressions are, first that it's a lot of fun. Also the game dynamic changes a lot, as kill team games focus more on the shooting phase, whereas the standard 40k game is pretty assault focused. Consider that at 200 points most assault troops don't have transports and will thus have to walk to their enemy. Plus, individual models can target other individual models, meaning you can snipe special troops.

 

Its pretty balanced though, I took a 5-man terminator squad (sadly our Deathwing squads base price is too high, so I had to proxy them with Wolfguard rules), and won about as much as I lost.

 

Anyways I haven't tried it out yet, but I suspect that our best unit for kill teams is the lowly tactical squad, not veteran squads. Remember that for veterans you're paying 33% more per model for an extra attack, and each tactical marine can shoot just as well. Veterans may be worth it for the extra upgrade options, though it may be pretty army specific and again at 200 points its harder to choose special weapons that are good against all types of enemies.

 

The kill team I'd like to try, but haven't gotten around to yet, is this 10 man tactical squad:

 

---

10 Marines

Sgt. with Plasma Pistol

Flamer, Plasma Cannon, and 7 boltguns

 

---

I'm debating between this, and swapping the PC/flamer out for a heavy bolter and a plasmagun. I also suspect that as you can only target individual models, template weapons are a bit more useful, but I haven't tested this enough to be sure. At this level I suspect that the missile launcher is pretty good and very versatile, and versatile wargear is useful in this point range.

 

I'm also happy because this is the first time I can use the really awesome Sergeant with the plasma pistol from the 3rd edition DA tactical squad box, which I haven't used for ages.

(see http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/...Id=prod1140230)

[breng77]

I agree with you that shooting is much more important. I am not sure where I stand on templates though, because if an opponent spreads out their models (which they can easily do) they are less reliable (other than the flamer) than normal marine shooting. I also find I am not a big fan of plasma in Kill team (maybe that is just because I tend to kill my self as often or more often than anyone else) I just think when you could lose the game for being at 1/2 or less models, the risk of blowing one up is just not worth the reward (again though I cannot make 3+ armor saves or the 4+ feel no pain I put on my plasma gunner). I think the missile launcher has great value at this point cost as it is likely to instant kill any 2 wound models on the table and most armies will not have many 2+ armor saves. (I think the most you can get is 5 termis and that would be their whole kill team)

[publius]

True enough. I would put "Feel no Pain" on one of my plasma-wielding guys, at the least.

 

Speaking of special rules, putting relentless on heavy weapons wielders seems like win. Either that or stealth, considering that he'll probably be camped somewhere, and would also be a high profile target.

 

(For those who haven't seen it, you get 3 universal special rules you can give to three models. Each one must be different)

[Commander Sasha]

Don't forget that posting explicit rules can get Bolter&Chainsword in trouble, guys!

 

My son (DA) and I played Kill team for the first time, and I let him use a bare-bones DW, as we figured it's a C:SM equivalent.

I used my Skaven counts-as-Nids, so it became Space Hulk without the corridors!

I stuck to the 200 point limit, if I hadn't, 15 points would have only given me 2 more clanrats/hormagants, so not game-winning anyway.

 

Great game, 25 minutes from first to last dice roll.

 

If only Battle Missions had more small games: was looking forward to 5ed versions of Combat patrol, Arena of Death, Mano-a-mano, deathrace, 40K in 40 minutes, etc.

[Bartali]

Anyways I haven't tried it out yet, but I suspect that our best unit for kill teams is the lowly tactical squad, not veteran squads. Remember that for veterans you're paying 33% more per model for an extra attack, and each tactical marine can shoot just as well. Veterans may be worth it for the extra upgrade options, though it may be pretty army specific and again at 200 points its harder to choose special weapons that are good against all types of enemies.

 

The problem with fielding a 10 man Tac squad is that they cost more and have less special rules than every other marine chapter out there. That's fine if you're stubborn :huh: but you will be starting at a disadvantage.

[breng77]

My big problem with a heavy weapons trooper is that unless you give him relentless there is just so much cover on the field the unit becomes useless.

[publius]

Anyways I haven't tried it out yet, but I suspect that our best unit for kill teams is the lowly tactical squad, not veteran squads. Remember that for veterans you're paying 33% more per model for an extra attack, and each tactical marine can shoot just as well. Veterans may be worth it for the extra upgrade options, though it may be pretty army specific and again at 200 points its harder to choose special weapons that are good against all types of enemies.

 

The problem with fielding a 10 man Tac squad is that they cost more and have less special rules than every other marine chapter out there. That's fine if you're stubborn :D but you will be starting at a disadvantage.

 

To be honest, I actually compared the various tactical squad builds I was considering and found that on average the Codex: Space Marines Tactical squad was 5-10 points cheaper than the Dark Angels equivalent. The only special rule we're lacking is Combat Tactics, which is significantly less useful in a Kill Team.

 

As such there's a slight advantage to using Codex marines, but only slight. Its with things like Dreadnoughts where the price difference between the codexes starts to hurt.

 

I still feel the above holds pretty true/ If one wants to make use of the Veteran squads it is viable, but the focus should be on making use of the extra special weapons, and/or getting your troops into close combat.

[Commander Sasha]

My big problem with a heavy weapons trooper is that unless you give him relentless there is just so much cover on the field the unit becomes useless.

Err, so give him relentless! Powerfist Sgt gets fleet for the thumpin', one more specialist to choose!

 

The variation we tried today which was fun was:

All unit entries can half half the number of men, rounding up, for a suitable equivalent price; ie, 2 man biker teams, 3 Dw etc. Opened up a few more choices. :tu:

[EPK]

Anyone else had any luck with particular units? I was thinking of taking the 3 Bikers + AB for my first Kill team match I'm playing tonight.

 

I know people say the flamer is less useful, but considering negating cover saves, even if I kill one unit at a time, it's worth it in a game this size. Wouldn't you say?

 

However, bikes can not go up levels of buildings can they? That could cause a problem.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

I really don't play that kind of game competitively, but I had huge fun with a unit of 6 veterans.

Relentless HB guy, Fleet Thunderhammer/SB, Furious Charge Power Weapon / BP, Plasma gun, 2 Bolters :)

[FerociousBeast]

Relentless heavy bolter sounds fun all on its own. "I ain't got time to bleed!"

you know what I'm talking about...

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Oh yeah. Exactly that. Also, he has a mean swing with that thing, with 2 base attacks :D

[EPK]

I like it!

 

I may have to confront 4 Wolfguards in TDA, how would you combat that? I toss in more plasma - though I'd probably be killing myself. Here is what he was thinking -

 

TDA, assault cannon, PW, and Feel No Pain.

TDA, Wolf Claw, and Stormbolter.

TDA, PW, Stormbolter, and Preferred Enemy.

TDA: Thunderhammer, Storm Shield, and Fleet.

 

EDIT - Though not sure how they would fair against the above, here is another Vet load out based on an earlier post

 

HB, relentless

PF, fleet

PW, furious charge

PG

SB x3

 

I figured the PF can do basically the same as the TH, so I could save some points and add a third SB. I like not worrying about rapid fire range.

[ODM]

I have my first DA kill team game tomorrow. I played the other day with some guard and really liked the format. I'm not sure if I want scouts, tacticals, vets or some other combination. I was thinking of using the marine codex and playing scouts and a storm. Might be brittle, but has the right feel of an elite unit inserted behind enemy lines, if you know what I mean.

 

Have to keep thinking it through.