Dark Angels Kill Teams

[Interrogator Stobz]

Hi All,

 

I played SIX game of KT in ONE evening, heaps of fun and variety, even broke out the DA ven dread vs chaos dread for a different option, great fun even though I got caned by poor dice :P , BTW any one in TDA will be owned by a vindicare with relentless, ouchouchouch every AP2 round. (we let the Vindy in without an Inq weren't sure about that but fluffy and cool)

 

IMHO Bikes (&ABs) with special weapons own the game (I got owned by some chaos ones, I think our fearless DW ones would do at least as well if not better), especially when one has FnP. No objectives other than kill the enemy so no need to climb stairs FTW.

 

6 Vets(with as many melta guns as poss) in a rhino are hard to stop too, I may try with a razorback next time to see how it goes. The thing i really liked about KT is how something like a rhino looks great and intimidating on a small paddock with individual models as the opponents, makes you appreciate the fear meat sacks have against PA Marines and/or armour.

 

With the victoryconditions being what they are you need plenty of bodies on the table and/or Fearless/Stubborn with high Ld. and the means to stop hard things quick.

 

Loved it, can't wait to do it again, heaps better than 1850 tourney lists once that dog has been flogged ;)

 

Stobz

[Plastic Rat]

How would you field TDA since Kill Team is 200 points and a basic Deathwing unit is 215 points?

 

Also, how does fearless apply to Kill Team? I was thinking about trying bikes, but as far as I understood, fearless has no effect in the game, which means Ravenwing are paying a lot of points for an ability that has no effect.

 

Also, just wondering.. how do vehicles work with leadership tests? You can field 2 landspeeders for 200 points. If you lose one, you need to start taking LD tests... however Landspeeders being vehicles have no leadership value...

 

Just wondering if anyone can answer any of those.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Rat,

 

TDA can be achieved in other codecies, obviously not DW, I didn't mention them.

 

My bad on the LD thing, I was at work and forgot it's only Morale and pinning auto pass.

 

I think vehicles must be destroyed etc. the other option is give them Ld10 and stubborn, discuss with opponent first :wink: .

 

Stobz

[NICS]

i played against gaurd in a game of kill team. i had 3 bikes and a attack bike. i gave the sarge a power weapon and ferious charge the heavy bolter on the attack bike got feel no pain . and i for get the other bike but the guard got owned. were having a little tourny were i play using the kill team rules and i want to run 3 speeders but i was wondering about the leadership rule as they will auto fail. what do you guys think?

[EPK]

So, I played a few games last night. 2 against 5 Eldar Shining Spears and one against Wolves with one Lone Wolf in TDA, and like 5-6 grey hunters (one with plasmagun one with mark of the wolfen). Lost all three actually, but only the first two by being wiped.

 

The first game against the Shining Spears was tough. With my footslogging Vets (list from earlier in thread), we took a couple Eldar with us, but their mobility allowed them to hit from both sides and the power weapons on each were deadly negating wounds.

 

The second game also against the Spears again I took 3 Bikers and attack Bike w/Heavy bolter. I was definitely on more equal footing this in terms of speed and toughness however once the Spears got into you with those power weapons, it was over. To add insult to injury, I rolled a 1, 2 and 3 for Gets Hot!. Thats right, I failed the armor save AND the Feel No Pain I gave him.

 

The third game against the wolves saw my mobility shine as the Grey Hunters and their TDA Lone Wolf were left walking (Lone Wolf had Fleet). I played keep away from his Lone wolf and chipped away at hit Grey Wolves in cover. This game eventually came down to simply who would fail their leadership test first. As some might not know, once you fall to below 50% you have to take one each round AND it goes down each time. I lost on a roll of a 6.

 

Also, considering I was against marines I took the Multimelta instead of the heavy bolter on the Attack bike - seemed to make sense as you target each separately and it negated armor saves (though he was in cover like the whole time with them). By the way, the Lone Wolf is so cheap for this. Though I did manage to wound him via aweful saving throws when I went first in combat, this Lone Wolf is looking at 2+, 3++ saves. Come on now - I simply ignored him, and the one biker he caught worked to draw him away from the others.

 

Mobility is definitely a key factor and I'd say a group of 5 Shining Spears with Exarch may be on of the best kill team units (though they did loose to the same Wolf army above - also due to Ld. tests). Speed, high initiative, and those power weapons are a great combo.

[ODM]

I played a couple of games, one with a tactical squad, one with Ravenwing.

 

The tactical squad was great, dismantling the Eldar we faced. In the end I had 5 men left, he had two getting swamped in CC, and I failed my first leadership test! Brutal.

 

In the second game my RW were doing very well, getting down to the last three Banshees. Then he rolled two sixes to kill my attack bike in CC at the end of my turn (when I should have at least survived the turn), and then rolled a 6 for consolidation, allowing him to catch my Sgt in his next turn.

 

In my shooting turn, my plasma gunner killed himself, even with FNP, leaving one last biker who missed his shots. Then my opponent rolled a six for fleet, allowing a full 18 inch assault and catching the last biker. Crazy turn around. I went from killing 7 with no casualties, and very favorable positioning, to getting wiped out in a turn and a half. WIld.

 

Overall, although I had two losses, they both made very good kill teams.

[EPK]

The 10 man tactical does seem like a good idea for getting the bodies, though I think I would still just use C:SM if I was going to do that.

 

I feel your pain on the feel no pain (pun intended). I did the same thing with my plasma.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Man, I really like the way a couple of bad rolls in small games can completely change the outcome, it's refreshing and takes away the whole "it's the end of the world' attitude that comes across in some players in larger games.

 

The games are so quick that you can just play again. brilliant.

 

I attacked a sole CSM biker with 3 Wyches after shooting the rest of his guys to death, he had FnP and

failed every armour save for about 6 combat turns, eventually killed those Wyches and the rest of my dirty little space elves failed Ld and ran. BAD dirty space elves.

 

Sorry about the non DA stuff here, my DA vets have been doing well armed with a couple of PGs and looking GOOD hunting the fallen.

 

LS

[ODM]

I won my first kill team game using scouts and a storm. Scouts do really rock at kill team. Move through cover and scout and infiltrate for all makes them excellent on heavily terrained boards, and their stat lines make them pretty tough for a lot of what you'll face.

[notmattlythgoe]

what load out did you use with your scouts?

[EPK]

I won my first kill team game using scouts and a storm. Scouts do really rock at kill team. Move through cover and scout and infiltrate for all makes them excellent on heavily terrained boards, and their stat lines make them pretty tough for a lot of what you'll face.

 

Yes, I was also wondering. I suppose your banking on their superior numbers and mobility over their slightly less effective shooting, assaulting and saves (compared to regular marines)?

 

I was thinking something like this -

 

LS Storm

 

8 Scouts total:

HB

PW

3x scouts w/bolters

Scout w/camo cloak

Scout w/camo cloak

Scout w/camo cloak

 

That's still 6 points under the limit to add maybe two more cloaks or meltabombs.

 

Those 3 additional Scouts that couldn't fit in the LS Storm could sit back in cover. I'd probably consider giving them sniper rifles.

 

Oh a side note, thinking about the special ammunition that Sternguard have made me want to use C:SM even more with instead of the DA Vets.

[ODM]

I played again today and beat orks. Scouts again.

 

1st game - vs mech eldar kill team

9 scouts

sgt combi melta - FNP

ML - Tank Hunter

sniper w/camo cloak - Relentless

2 shotgun scouts

4 cc scouts

Landspeeder storm

 

2nd game - vs foot orks

10 scouts

sgt - Feel no Pain

HB - Relentless

2 snipers - 1 Stealth

4 cc scout

2 shotgun scouts

Landspeeder storm

 

I really am starting to like scouts again. They never make my standard 40k lists, but in kill team they rock.

[Darmor]

I've played 3 kill-team games by now. I've used this Company Veterans Kill-Team:

 

6 Veterans

Sgt - PW - Furious Charge

Flamer

ML - Relentless

Plasma Pistol - FNP

Bolter

BP+Chainsword

Rhino

 

They've done just great - managed to win a game versus sneaky Eldars and made a heroical "Last Stand" against Orks. Only one game was lost - again Eldar, but that was my tactical mistake, I had to stick closer to the Rhino and not spread out too much(oh, that Dire Avenger Exarch with 2 shuriken catapults...)

I like this format, I've got tons of fun from these games and had seen a couple of spectacular episodes(like when Veteran with flamer ambushed Striking Scorpions and killed 2 and an Exarch in 1 turn; or when a bunch of Boyz sent my Rhino to the Machine-God and the remaining 4 Veterans were left in crater surrounded by greenskins...). Each roll can change the course of entire game - and that makes each game unpredictable and exciting.

P.S. These Veterans already have names for their glourious deeds :)

[EPK]

6 Veterans

Sgt - PW - Furious Charge

Flamer

ML - Relentless

Plasma Pistol - FNP

Bolter

BP+Chainsword

Rhino

 

I like this list, especially with the inclusion of a Rhino which more or less gives you one more "body" shooting two more shots.

 

And doing the math, this miraculously works out better than using C:SM too (via Sternguard - though I do like the special ammunition). 6 Vets and a Rhino using the DA codex actually comes out to be a whopping 30 points cheaper than the Sternguard (155 vs 185). This gives you more room for upgrades and with a kill team point cap, for Sternguard will only be able to fit in the PW.

 

We are having a little kill team tournament amongst our group and this list has brought me back to using the DA dex. I'm definitely going to try this list or something similar.

 

On a side note, has anyone uses C:SM to field their Death Wing as kill team? Any luck in that department. I was thinking, considering this relies a lot more on shooting that anything in TDA would have to be pretty good as they can take the shots (which in most cases may not be crazy small arms fire considering the limits).

[EPK]

The kill team tournament I mentioned above is actually going to be this weekend.

 

These are the simple rules we came up with -

 

• 5 Rounds: Everyone plays everyone. (there is 6 of us and we will have 3 tables going)

• No changes to list.

•

USR

can be changed each round.

 

Scoring:

0 Point: Lose

1 Point: Win- Have 50% or less of your Team remaining.

2 Points: Win- Have 50% or more of your Team remaining.

+1 Point: Massacred your enemy.

 

Now the Wolf player is going to field the following:

10 Grey Hunters: Meltagun and Plasmagun

Lone Wolf: MOTW and Fenrisian Wolf

 

How the heck do you compete with that? That's 11 power armored units. I was still leaning towards the list above (with rhino) but changing flamer to plasma (we have a possible 3 out 6 PA armies in it).

 

I also thought may be the 3 bikes/AB team could work to out maneuver. But come on, he's going to have 12 models on the table... I hate Space Wolf point cheapness.

[EPK]

Okay. After a bit more debating and working with Sternguard makeups, I think I've decided to take the following for our tourni tomorrow:

 

DA Vets

1. PW - Furious Charge or Preferred enemy

2. ML - Relentless

3. PG - FNP

4. SB

5. SB

6. SB

7. BP/CS + Combat Shield

 

It took much deliberation, but I decided due to the possibility of extremely dense terrain, I'd drop the rhino in lieu of another Vet (could actually fit 2 basic boltgun Vets, but went shooty with SBs instead). I also thought about giving the Rhino "stealth" and a dozer blade so it could actually work with the abundance of terrain but thought it best to save the USRs for Vets themselves for now.

 

Mostly shooty, but I figured I should have at least one more CC geared model, hence the BP/CS. The extra 5 points went to a Combat shield, just give him that slight edge against power weapons.

 

Like I said, I could have went up to 8 Vets, but at the cost of some SB shots, plus, whether it's 7 or 8, you are testing after you loose 4 Vets.

[Ash]

I fielded a vet load out in a rhino, missile launcher, power weapon, plasma pistols, bolter, the rest chainswords and bp's. they cleaned up 5 chaos terminators easily.

I let my mate take that force and brought out my tyranids. Tyranid warrior, hive guard, genestealers and hormagaunts the gaunts and warriors ate the marines when the hive guard smoked their rhino. I see problems for people to deal with the multiple wound tyranid models. Hive guard in cover shooting S8 twice ? virtually no cover saves allowed and no LOS required ? That cracks pretty much anything mech in a 200 point game.

I will look at a few more nid vs vet line ups. A lot of nid models to deal with, still marine power armour is very resiliant in CC.

[EPK]

I actually wound up simply fielding a Tactical squad (PW, PG, ML) for the extra bodies but unfortunately lost all 3 of my games. Albeit I did have some bad rolling - on a few occasions loosing 2 or 3 marines in a row. It was like they were wearing not armor.

 

The big winner however was Necron player who fielded 4 Destroyers - he went undefeated. This is a force to be reckoned with in Kill teams. They can move 12, shoot assault 3 at 36 in. range, and their toughness insured that I was only wounding on 5-6s. Sure you only needed to kill 2 to start them testing, 2 of us couldn't even manage to kill one. They out maneuver, out range and still put out 12 shots. Deadly.

 

On a side note, though my friends really didn't care and would have let me field it, they did say that RAW seem to imply that only one model could use the rhino at a time. Now, sure, you buy the rhino for the group, but once bought they are each individual units. Only on unit can use a transport at a time. Of course it may still be worth it to stick your ML fella in there - and it does have a storm bolter.

[mysideofthemirror]

There was actually a kill team tournament I played in this weekend at a con I attended. Rules included nothing with an armor value and USR's stayed the same in between rounds. Winner was a 4 Necron Destroyer team, that lost a total of 2 destroyers all tournament.

 

Edit: Game Summit EPK?

 

My kill team was a company vet squad, one from each Unforgiven.

1 w/ PF and FNP

1 w/ Heavy Bolter and Slow and Purposeful

1 w/ Combi Plasma and Relentless

1 w/Power Sword

2 w/ Bolter

1/w Chainsword

 

A couple of pictures someone took of my Kill Team at the tournament.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/mysideofthemirror/Unforgiven.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/mysideofthemirror/unforgiven2.jpg

[Ash]

There was actually a kill team tournament I played in this weekend at a con I attended. Rules included nothing with an armor value and USR's stayed the same in between rounds. Winner was a 4 Necron Destroyer team, that lost a total of 2 destroyers all tournament.

 

I know this is DA but there is one group of nasties I think that might be fielded in response

 

 

Maybe bring in the Legion Of The Damned they might not be DA but they turn up in the strangest places and have no love of the Inquisition.

 

You get 5 legionaires ... Power weapon Furious charge, Plasmagun, Infiltrate/Scout and Heavy Bolter, Relentless. 3 plus invun save on all of them ... your thoughts ?

[EPK]

There was actually a kill team tournament I played in this weekend at a con I attended. Rules included nothing with an armor value and USR's stayed the same in between rounds. Winner was a 4 Necron Destroyer team, that lost a total of 2 destroyers all tournament.

 

Edit: Game Summit EPK?

 

Nope, was not me. But that just goes to show you how nasty those Necrons can be.

 

How did you do in the tourni?

 

I had a similar list than just defaulted to the tactical squad for the extra bodies and come mathhammer calculating total number of shots and attacks. Of course when you are rolling 1s and 2s all the time (saves and to hit, lol) theres not much hope.

 

@SemperAstartes - the biggest problem with them would be testing after only loosing 3. The Vet list above is testing at 4 killed and my 10 man tac is testing at 5. The SW player I faced tested at 6. Though the Invul. save could make up for it, but the slow and purposeful worries me.

[Ash]

EPK yes I agree, they are a little slow and the 3+ invun only really benefits this line up against ranged high strength weapons and CC power weapons. They still die like normal marines but you have a high degree of flexibility on load out. They are a project.

The answer to those necrons would be DA on bikes or just a more shooty version of one of the Vets load outs mentioned here.

[mysideofthemirror]

I came in 8th out of 20. I had 2 Massacre's for, and was massacre'd twice in return over 4 rounds. One of the massacres was to guard, which I probably could have avoided by playing better. The other one was to the Necron player. He only lost 2 destroyers all tournament, and I killed one of em. So overall I think the list was pretty strong, although the combi plasma didn't do much for me all tournament. Oh, and the 2 losses were to the guys who came in first and second.

 

The list performed very well at mid to short range, if the heavy bolter got wiped out though, I lost all of my long range firepower. Trying to get into close combat with a necron destroyer that can turbo boost is a pain in the ass.

[EPK]

Yea Semper, I've had some success with bikes due to their maneuverability (mostly avoiding a bunch of wolves and slowly picking them apart), the high cost we pay for them in the DA dex isn't so great though, especially since we are paying for fearless and that is mostly pointless in kill teams. And as for LotD, anything is worth a try, flexibility is always good thing. We scoffed at the guy who said he would only have 4 models on the table, and that turned out to be unstoppable necron destroyers.

 

Well done Mysideofthemirror, maybe I'll give the Vets a try next time. I second the destroyer turbo boosting. I do like the idea of using slow and purposeful to get relentless (albeit at a downside) on a guy that wouldn't be moving much anyway per his long range and saving actual relentless for another. I'll have to remember that.