Nature of the Hersey and rethinking the state of the union

[Marshall Riese]

So I just finished reading Thousand Sons and again came back to some reasoning I came upon while reading others in the series. Now, before I go on, I will state that for the most part all the major players are being made out to be tragic heroes in the classic sense not the arch villains we have been lead to believe.

 

Magnus - Had been charged with the task of guiding humanity to the next step of evolution by the Emperor, but not given clear left and rights of arc for his task. And as stated many times throughout the book that this was his goal all along.

 

Alpharius - Loyal but uses questionable methods (as the legions go) to get the job done. Willing to sacrifice his self and his legion in order to preserve the Emperor's vision.

 

Fulgrim - Sinfully egotistical, but that's not something we didn't know. His fall is actually orchestrated through a daemon weapon which finally posses him. I won't be surprised if Erebrus planted the weapon for Fulgrim to find.

 

Horus - As we find out, he wasn't the first choice of the Chaos Gods. And wasn't truly turned, again a possession in order to accomplish the task.

 

Mortarion - He just seems to be as evil as we have been lead to believe.

 

So as for the "traitor" primarchs they are turning out for the most part to not be who we were lead to believe. By executing this shift in attitudes and motivation it also makes one question everything we believe of the 41st millennium.

 

Discuss......

[SGT. Tomas]

I've been seeing that too

they are the heroes fallen from grace

like the gods showing their human sides in the old tales

how else might perseptions be changed by the series??

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

havent really changed my beliefs all that much to be honest:

 

fulgrim falling to a daemonic sword was weak in my opinion.

magnus being turned into a bigger tragic hero was expected.

horus is loyal until a single bad dream breaks him. always thought he was weak.

alpharius always fought on many levels, never failing to have a backup plan or 5. the twin thing was a trip though

 

i am completely convinced that as this series goes on we ae going to find more out that everything is a shade of gray in the grimdark of 40k.

 

WLK

[Inquisitor Engel]

I think you'll see a couple of real bastards yet.

 

Perturabo I don't think has any real tragic edge to him. He got bitter for his Legion being assigned to garrison duty. His bitterness led to hatred and he likely turned of his own accord. He had no legitimate reason to turn other than to spite his father. He'll be a right spoiled brat (or he damn well should be).

 

Curze I think will remain rather tragic, though with a significantly perverse and evil twist - though he sees the future and is deeply depressed about the inevitability of betraying his father, he sees his methods as brutally correct and the RIGHT WAY to do things. If it worked on Nostromo, it should work everywhere. The glimpse into his character in "The Dark King" is chilling and uncompromising. I wouldn't be surprised if he was turned by one of the other Primarchs in the second wave like Lorgar (meh) or Perturabo (I think this would be more interesting).

 

I think Angron will ultimately play out as the first to throw his lot in with Horus much more for personal gain that by trickery or tragedy. I hope Gav's plans (via the thoughts of Corax) for Angron's motives pan out - someone who chose this side because of the freedom it offered, the chance to be a dog unleashed and remove the restrictions placed on him by the Emperor to become THE warrior and his Legion become warriors the universe would never forget thanks to the FREEDOM ostensibly offered by Horus.

 

I would like to say that I think Mortarion was really the only one that Horus CONVINCED. He was clearly told something with Angron, but I don't see The Red Angel having a particularly well-spoken discussion about the merits of Chaos versus the Emperor... Mortarion though... I think he was given an actual reason, a vision of what Horus saw... He had almost no reason to turn against the Emperor.

[Lord_Caerolion]

In my opinion, both Angron and Mortarion were always subconsciously looking to rebel. Both of them felt incredibly resentful towards the Emperor, both of them not wanting to have participated in the Crusade. Angron felt that the Emperor stole his honorable death from him, dying alongside his troops, while Mortarion felt that the Emperor cheated in their deal as to whether Mortarion would join him or not.

 

As for Horus, it wasn't just "one bad dream" that turned him, it was a very traumatising "vision" of the "future" that came at a time when he was doubting his role in the Great Crusade, and beginning to feel resentment towards the Emperor for leaving this massive burden to him, and then leaving. Horus already felt abandoned, it wouldn't take much to turn that to feeling betrayed.

 

As for Curze, he never turned to Chaos. Both LotN and Soul Hunter agree on this. He turned on the Emperor, and only joined Horus because the enemy of your enemy is your friend. He turned himself into the Emperors pet monster, and was repayed with censorship. Everything he had given up (even martyred, you could say) for the Emperor was being disregarded, and he hated the fact that after everything he had done for the Emperor, he was being tossed aside once his usefulness was complete.

[Rain]

The traitor primarchs have always been tragic heroes, the whole heresy has a bit of a Macbeth vibe (with Lorgar being Lady Macbeth I guess ;)). If anything the books have cheapened some of it for me. As WLK said, Fulgrim falling due to demonic possession just smacked of easy plot device so as to not come up with a better reason the Children of the Emperor would turn against him.

 

Also I like that the guy with the Imperial Fist avatar thinks Perturabo was just a spoiled brat, very fitting. Of course while the Imperial Fists were being lauded for their sycophantic antics and their second rate siegecraft, Perturabo was being thrown into unwinnable meat grinders with a fragmented and decentralized legion and still managed to conquer enough planets that it took the entire Imperium quite a few years to scour the Iron Warriors from their space, and they lost a lot of planets in the process.

 

Perturabo was treated like crap by the Emperor, the only person that showed him any real respect was Horus so it's really not shocking that when Horus turned he turned with him.

 

As for Mortarion and Angron, yes, the Emperor soured his relationship with them as soon as he found them though ironically enough in both cases he did this by saving their lives.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Also I like that the guy with the Imperial Fist avatar thinks Perturabo was just a spoiled brat, very fitting. Of course while the Imperial Fists were being lauded for their sycophantic antics and their second rate siegecraft, Perturabo was being thrown into unwinnable meat grinders with a fragmented and decentralized legion and still managed to conquer enough planets that it took the entire Imperium quite a few years to scour the Iron Warriors from their space, and they lost a lot of planets in the process.

 

Irony. I love it.

 

WLK

[Legatus]

Well, the traitor Primarchs are still evil minions of the dark gods now, so all it does is make their fall a little more tragic than just them being a-holes, doesn't it?

 

 

Perturabo was being thrown into unwinnable meat grinders with a fragmented and decentralized legion and still managed to conquer enough planets that it took the entire Imperium quite a few years to scour the Iron Warriors from their space

Well, it took the Ultramarines. With a little help from the Imperial Fists. ;)

 

 

Perturabo was treated like crap by the Emperor, the only person that showed him any real respect was Horus so it's really not shocking that when Horus turned he turned with him.

That't not exactly how the Index Astartes articles portray the situation...

 

"The Iron Warriors' indisputable success then led to them being 'typecast' to the extent that they became an automatic choice for a siege or garrison mission. But all troops need time for rest and reorganisation if they are to be at their best. Clearly some authority chose to keep the Iron Warriors in action despite the harm it was doing. The Emperor may have been deliberately testing Perturabo's faith but, given that Horus, as Warmaster, had control over the precise conduct of many campaigns, it is more likely that he was responsible."

Index Astartes Iron Warriors

 

The Luna Wolves background seems to reinforce that.

 

"In the Aartuo, Keskastine and Androv Systems, the Luna Wolves are known to have moved swiftly on to planet after planet as soon as the local armies had been subdued. The Ultramarines and the Iron Warriors, who were fighting alongside Horus's Legion at this time, were repeatedly left to mop up any final pockets of resistance and establish garrisons on the conquered worlds. The Luna Wolves' officiers apparently refused point blank to assign any troops to these duties, insisting that every man was required for the ongoing crusade. Further rebellion flared up on a number of the planets after the Luna Wolves had left, and it is believed that the Ultramarines' Primarch Robute Guilliman subsequently had words with Horus on the matter."

Index Astartes Luna Wolves

 

At least for a bit the Ultramarines seem to have been in a similar situation to the Iron Warriors (probably not quite as bad in those instances, the Ultramarines were not known for a lot of garrison duty after all), but it is interresting how differently the two Primarchs coped with the situation. Perhaps you could say that Perturabo's fall was a bit tragic as he was misled by Horus to think that the Emperor was responsible for his misery.

[Dark Mechanicum]

My views on the Traitor Primarchs

 

Lorgar: We shall soon see but as the first to fall, his entire vision of the emperor is shattered and he is told to stop by the one being he believes to be a god. I hope The First Heretic shows the inner workings of the Word Bearers. It shall be interesting.

 

Horus: The Favored Son, he is granted the title of Warmaster and told to continue the Crusade in the Emperors name. Unfortunatly the Council of Terra decides to start trying to collect tithes and rein in the Astartes from what they do best. Swift Brutal War. With so much on his shoulders, Horus starts to doubt and then Erebus comes in and starts the whole path down. The future vision is what happened AFTER the Heresy but Horus doesn't know that. His fall is a long series of events that just screw him over.

 

Fulgrim: Influenced by the sword pulled at the Laern campaign, you have the fact that EVERYBODY not just Fulgrim was affected by the Laern Temple, a place i'm going to guess is just full of the warp presence of Slannesh, so he isn't weak per say. Just had the influence of a greater daemon of Slannesh always whispering in your head from the beginning.

 

Angron: Always resentful to the Emperor and the leash around his neck, so the freedom to do what he does best which is kill many people. That is my belief on why Angron changed.

 

Alpharius:

The twist of the Alpha Legion joining Horus to save the Imperium is an interesting one

I hope we see more behind why they go traitor that that one book.

 

Curze: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Plain and Simple. Already turned against the Hypocripsy of the Imperium BEFORE Horus turns traitor and decides to join up with Horus to fight back against those who do not see the vision that Curze has always known. Fear is what keeps people in line.

 

Mortarion: All we know is that he talked with Horus, that is all. The IA article mentions: That Horus promised Mortarion that the old order would fall and a new one where Humanity never had to fear the creatures of old night again. We shall hopefully see what happens with the Death Guard.

 

Peturabo: The Primarch forced to split his legion into many splinters just to garrison planets and do nerve wracking siege work with no reprive. Out of all the traitor legions, the Iron Warriors were the ones pushed to madness through the act of not caring. Even their own homeworld rejected them and fell to rebellion before the heresy itself.

 

Magnus: The Primarch who used his gift of being a psyker to try and help the imperium and to have the curiosity to match. Told to not practice that which is natural to him and to not be curious. Shunned by his brothers and brought to censure by them. I can see him going to Horus because the Imperium already tried to kill him.

 

Just my two cents on it and my ideas.

[Inquisitor Engel]

Also I like that the guy with the Imperial Fist avatar thinks Perturabo was just a spoiled brat, very fitting. Of course while the Imperial Fists were being lauded for their sycophantic antics and their second rate siegecraft, Perturabo was being thrown into unwinnable meat grinders with a fragmented and decentralized legion and still managed to conquer enough planets that it took the entire Imperium quite a few years to scour the Iron Warriors from their space, and they lost a lot of planets in the process.

 

Spoiled was the wrong word I think, I was using it more to explain how I see him acting (like a kid who normally gets his way when a parent suddenly puts their foot down - not that he EVER got what he wanted, but the "I'm TOO GOOD FOR THIS" reaction and mentality) than him actually being spoiled. Over time the effect of not being listened to and complaints falling on deaf ears just turns to total bitterness and spite.

 

Yes, Perturabo got the short end of the stick indeed, but I don't think he's one of the "tragic" traitor Primarchs, just one of the ones who didn't like his role in things or his duty.

[Legionator]

All of the primarchs those fell to Chaos were mistaken, they were tested and failed. Would Rogal Dorn have fallen to Chaos if he had been in same situation with Perturabo? Do you think loyal primarchs were lucky, they didn't have any excuse for treason? I think all of the primarchs were tested in Horus Heresy, some of them failed, some of them succeed. Therefore, when I look at Traitors, I don't see any tragic hero, but only losers. These losers can be regretful now. All those who wander in darkness seek the light. But when they reach the light, they avert their eyes from the blinding glare.

[Ashur]

I think Angron will ultimately play out as the first to throw his lot in with Horus much more for personal gain that by trickery or tragedy. I hope Gav's plans (via the thoughts of Corax) for Angron's motives pan out - someone who chose this side because of the freedom it offered, the chance to be a dog unleashed and remove the restrictions placed on him by the Emperor to become THE warrior and his Legion become warriors the universe would never forget thanks to the FREEDOM ostensibly offered by Horus.

 

Could you explain me this mention to Corax ?

[jb85]

Also I like that the guy with the Imperial Fist avatar thinks Perturabo was just a spoiled brat, very fitting. Of course while the Imperial Fists were being lauded for their sycophantic antics and their second rate siegecraft, Perturabo was being thrown into unwinnable meat grinders with a fragmented and decentralized legion and still managed to conquer enough planets that it took the entire Imperium quite a few years to scour the Iron Warriors from their space, and they lost a lot of planets in the process.

 

Spoiled was the wrong word I think, I was using it more to explain how I see him acting (like a kid who normally gets his way when a parent suddenly puts their foot down - not that he EVER got what he wanted, but the "I'm TOO GOOD FOR THIS" reaction and mentality) than him actually being spoiled. Over time the effect of not being listened to and complaints falling on deaf ears just turns to total bitterness and spite.

 

Yes, Perturabo got the short end of the stick indeed, but I don't think he's one of the "tragic" traitor Primarchs, just one of the ones who didn't like his role in things or his duty.

 

Perturabo would have probably been better off if he had been spoilt. It was his diligence that was his downfall, if he had resisted the frequent calls for his legion to act as garrison troops and to be scattered over multiple campaigns, then the rot may never have set in.

[Dark Mechanicum]

I think Angron will ultimately play out as the first to throw his lot in with Horus much more for personal gain that by trickery or tragedy. I hope Gav's plans (via the thoughts of Corax) for Angron's motives pan out - someone who chose this side because of the freedom it offered, the chance to be a dog unleashed and remove the restrictions placed on him by the Emperor to become THE warrior and his Legion become warriors the universe would never forget thanks to the FREEDOM ostensibly offered by Horus.

 

Could you explain me this mention to Corax ?

 

Ravens Flight the audio book.

[Lord_Caerolion]

All of the primarchs those fell to Chaos were mistaken, they were tested and failed. Would Rogal Dorn have fallen to Chaos if he had been in same situation with Perturabo? Do you think loyal primarchs were lucky, they didn't have any excuse for treason? I think all of the primarchs were tested in Horus Heresy, some of them failed, some of them succeed. Therefore, when I look at Traitors, I don't see any tragic hero, but only losers. These losers can be regretful now. All those who wander in darkness seek the light. But when they reach the light, they avert their eyes from the blinding glare.

 

Wait, so you think that, for example, if Sanguinius had been raised in the same way as Angron, and had the same things happen, then Sanguinius wouldn't have fallen?

 

I think anyone would snap if they had what happened to Perturabo happen to them. In many ways, Perturabo fell because he was too obedient. He never questioned his orders, never refused a task, even when it meant that the weight of responsibility became too great. Other Legions were "rebellious" enough to refuse to do something, like the Raven Guard refusing to fight alongside Horus, but Perturabo never did, and it became his downfall.

He became bitter about how he was treated, and then his homeworld rebelled against him. Can you imagine how that would have felt, to be the only Legion whose home-world actually rejected the Imperium (not counting Nostromo, as that was still technically Imperial)? I find it hard to think that anyone wouldn't snap under those conditions.

 

The same can be said about any of the other Primarchs. To be fair, Mortarion had the weakest excuse for initially turning, but all the others have valid reasons.

 

Lets go through them:

Horus: the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders, he begins to resent the Emperor 'abandoning' him to this task. Presented with a vision that plays on his worst fears, it's only too easy for his mind to accept it as truth.

Night Haunter: turns himself into the Emperors tame monster, sacrificing his humanity so the Emperor can conquer the galaxy. In return, he's censured for his actions. His greatest sacrifice is repaid by betrayal.

Magnus: a combination of arrogance and curiosity, and deals done trying to better humanity came to turn on him.

Angron: Try telling me that having someone steal you from your honoured brethren at the night of your glorious last stand, leaving them to die hopelessly without you, and that you won't come to absolutely hate that persons guts, and give anything to see them dead, like you had to watch your men die.

Lorgar: The equivalent of Jesus returning, and telling the Pope that he's wasted his life, and this whole "church" and everything he's done is an absolute waste of time, and that none of the Bible's true.

Fulgrim: Possessed, plain and simple. You try making the "right" decision with a daemon of seduction and temptation whispering to you night and day.

Mortarion: Always hated how the Emperor "cheated" in their deal as to whether Mortarion joined or not. With 200 years to brood, resentment turns to hatred pretty easily.

Alpharius: Explained perfectly in Legion, the ultimate pragmatist.

[Rain]

Lorgar: The equivalent of Jesus returning, and telling the Pope that he's wasted his life, and this whole "church" and everything he's done is an absolute waste of time, and that

 

The most hilarious thing I've seen on this board in a while. "So uh, Ben can I call you Ben? Well I will anyway, so you know this whole organized worship of me, it's creepy man, oh and what's with the hats?" :P

 

What I will never understand about Angron was why that toolshed of an Emperor didn't just send the Terran World Eaters (along with himself) down onto the planet to help their primarch and his army slaughter their former slavers. Then he would have seen the Emperor as a brother in arms and not someone that denied him his martial duty to his men.

[A D-B]

Lorgar: The equivalent of Jesus returning, and telling the Pope that he's wasted his life, and this whole "church" and everything he's done is an absolute waste of time, and that none of the Bible's true.

 

See, you get it.

[Dark Mechanicum]

That's it, I'm making a Lorgar model look like the Pope....I just have to now...the compulsion to do that.

 

Funniest thing I've ever read in a long time.

 

You know ADB, making me want the rest of the year to just flash by till First Heretic isn't fair...its going to be fun.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That's it, I'm making a Lorgar model look like the Pope....I just have to now...the compulsion to do that.

 

Funniest thing I've ever read in a long time.

 

You know ADB, making me want the rest of the year to just flash by till First Heretic isn't fair...its going to be fun.

 

Funny as it may sound, it's exactly what happened, and imagine the psychological aftermath of that happening. It's why I've never understood people saying that Lorgar's an idiot, and that he should have just gotten over it. These people gloss over the fact that Lorgar came from a heavily religious world, and that Lorgar proclaimed the arrival of their Messiah, and then suddenly he appeared! The big golden God came down from the sky, promising salvation for everyone, and then told his most fanatical priest that said priest was actually his son, and was to join him on his glorious Great Crusade to free the galaxy!

 

Suddenly, God turns around and says he isn't a God, that you're stupid for ever thinking it, he hates the temples you've built, you aren't supposed to be converting people, and your life in general up until this point has been a complete waste, so go be a good Primarch and stick to the faithless killing and ridding the galaxy of religion, would you? This, right there, has got to be one of the biggest d#&k moves the Emperor, no, anyone, could have made, ever. I mean, what happened to Angron was bad, and the Emperor was the definition of the word "tool" when he did that, but Lorgar worshipped the crap the Emperor stepped in, let alone the ground he stood on. There is no possible worse thing you could have done to him.

 

Strangely enough, I can't see anybody ever, no matter how "tough" they are, being able to just move on from that. Crisis of faith are bad enough when they're normal, so imagine how bad it is when its God himself telling you you're a jerk for worshipping him. Everything that had ever given Lorgar some structure in his life, everything he had ever based his personality and identity around, was torn away from him, by his God. He desperately needed something to give his life that lost meaning and structure again, and then along came Kor Phaeron/Erebus, mentioning the Old Gods of Colchis.

 

In a way, you could say that Lorgar's fault wasn't a 'sin', like Wrath or Greed, but an over-arching need for higher meaning in life. He just couldn't exist without it, and he turned to the closest source he could when it was first denied to him.

 

...Dammit, now I have the strong urge to do a Heresy-era Word Bearer army... Hopefully the wait for First Heretic won't be too long, so I can see how you've shown the reaction of Lorgar, A D-B. Hopefully it'll shut up those people who don't understand just how bad it would have been.

[Dark Mechanicum]

Oh, I definetly get how evil it is and how much a dick the emperor is for doing it. Its one of those things that makes me look at the other primarchs and just shake my head. I'm still surprised the Lion stayed loyal or if he just waited to see who won. Fits his nature and all that. But I cant wait for the First Heretic on that as well just to see that moment when the emperor tells him: Dude, i'm no god. And as my son you are failling me.

 

I just cant wait for that moment and to see the horror of being bitchslapped by your own genefather.

[Legatus]

I dunno...

 

 

Night Haunter: turns himself into the Emperors tame monster, sacrificing his humanity so the Emperor can conquer the galaxy. In return, he's censured for his actions. His greatest sacrifice is repaid by betrayal.

The Emperor did not ask him to do that. Night Haunter himself decided that it was the best approach, based on his former life on Nostramo. And if we are to believe the Index Astartes, Night Haunter finally snapped after a dispute with some of his brothers, after which a council of primarchs decided how to proceed with him. He then goes on a rampage, destroying Nostramo and starting to arbitrarrily massacre whole worlds without any reason. That is the point where the Emperor is notified and decides he has to intervene.

 

 

Angron: Try telling me that having someone steal you from your honoured brethren at the night of your glorious last stand, leaving them to die hopelessly without you, and that you won't come to absolutely hate that persons guts, and give anything to see them dead, like you had to watch your men die.

That Angron was not allowed to die at the side of his brothers was no doubt a severe blow to his honor. However, after that a whole new and much bigger picture was revealed to him. There was a whole galaxy, not just his world, and he was given command over a Legion of bred warriors, to go conquer worlds in the name of the mightiest of all leaders. He might have never truly forgiven him for taking him away from his brothers and letting him die with them. But at some point he should have gotten over it.

 

 

Lorgar: The equivalent of Jesus returning, and telling the Pope that he's wasted his life, and this whole "church" and everything he's done is an absolute waste of time, and that none of the Bible's true.

As the (true!) messiah appears and tells him that he has misinterpreted his will and is mistaken, of course the reacton of any religious person would not be to adjust, but to rave and turn on his former messiah. He is still the messiah, but it is so much easier to blame others than to admit his own mistakes of such magnitude. That is the natural reaction one would expect from a human being. That still means that the messiah is the messiah, and the religious person is still the jerk in this.

 

 

Mortarion: Always hated how the Emperor "cheated" in their deal as to whether Mortarion joined or not. With 200 years to brood, resentment turns to hatred pretty easily.

Similar story as with Angron. After decades or even centuries of a new life not as part of a suppressed lower class of one world but as the leader of a mighty force to conquer the galaxy he should have more or less gotten over that. Again the Emperor saved the Primarchs life, but again the Primarch saw that as a blow to his honor. I guess in both of these cases the Emperor could have supported them with his armies instead (or in the case of Mortarion, who wanted no help, perhaps at least suppüly them with equipment). But perhaps in both of these cases it was predetermined since 2nd Edition that the Primarchs would eventually betray the Emperor, so they needed a bit of an incentive. Meh.

 

 

Alpharius: Explained perfectly in Legion, the ultimate pragmatist.

...or the urge to prove his own worth to his brothers. By defeating them in battle. depending on whether you prefer the Index Astartes (and the 2nd, 3rd and 3.5 Edition Codices) or the Horus Heresy novel.

[Legionator]

Wait, so you think that, for example, if Sanguinius had been raised in the same way as Angron, and had the same things happen, then Sanguinius wouldn't have fallen?

 

I think anyone would snap if they had what happened to Perturabo happen to them. In many ways, Perturabo fell because he was too obedient. He never questioned his orders, never refused a task, even when it meant that the weight of responsibility became too great. Other Legions were "rebellious" enough to refuse to do something, like the Raven Guard refusing to fight alongside Horus, but Perturabo never did, and it became his downfall.

He became bitter about how he was treated, and then his homeworld rebelled against him. Can you imagine how that would have felt, to be the only Legion whose home-world actually rejected the Imperium (not counting Nostromo, as that was still technically Imperial)? I find it hard to think that anyone wouldn't snap under those conditions.

 

Yes I think that Sanguinius wouldn't have fallen. Angron used the "honor" to disguise his weakness. He blamed Emperor for stealing his very precious death along with his brothers in arms. But we saw his sense of honor, he betrayed his men in Istvaan 3, he satisfied his blood thirsty with condemned and betrayed marines of Raven Guard in Istvaan 5, he massacred numberless civilians after Heresy. I wonder how a son of the Emperor can be so vile? Being a gladiator or using implants can't be an exuse for Angron's ingloriousness.

Despite his brother, Sanguinius was a byword for honor. He could betray the Emperor because the Emperor had chosen Horus instead of Sanguinius, but he didn't. He resisted to the hordes of chaos in Siege of Terra. When he encountered Horus, he was wounded and exhausted. His death was a certanity, he could join the Arch Traitor and he could justify himself, he could say "Emperor forsake me, then I have joined Horus for saving my legion". But he chose a heroic death. Like Sanguinius, all of the loyal primarchs have excuses or opportunities for treason, but they managed to remain loyal.

I don't agree with you about Perturabo issue. Perturabo suffered from some tragical incidents but that can't make treason an obligation. During Heresy, Corax suffered much more pain than Perturabo, but he didn't think to be a traitor.

 

Note: My English is not very well so, I can make some mistakes or cause some misunderstandings.

[Kodanshi]

Horus: …Presented with a vision that plays on his worst fears, it's only too easy for his mind to accept it as truth.

 

And, indeed, it WAS the truth. But what Horus didn’t realise was it was a vision of the future that would result from his turning against the Emperor.

[Dark Mechanicum]

With Angron, you are referencing everything post heresy after he has already turned against the Emperor. To Angron and where he was raised all he had was his honor. Nothing else, he earned the trust and brotherhood of ALL the gladiators on that planet. Not an easy feat I would bet. When its the last fight for them all, the Fight to end all fights for this group. To finally put it to the highborns and let them be awash in blood for their treatment of the gladiators. Their commander is then taken from them and all are killed without honor. Yea, he should just be happy about a bigger picture when for him, everything was on that one planet that held what he held dear.

[BrotherAtrox]

Wasn't Angron in one of the Tales of Heresy short stories?

 

Wasn't he pants-on-head maniac?