kalicurealm Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I have a question I've long been thinking about. As we can see in almost all of the art on the net, all of it in the art of the heresy books and read in various Horus Heresy novels the Emperor of Mankind is a figure who towers over space marines, custodians and even terminators. My question to you, Brothers (and sisters?), is this: Is/Was the Emperor a space marine? Did he go through the surgery that the knights of the Order underwent so that they might follow their beloved primarch into the stars? Or is he perhaps able undergo the implants that 'normal' space marines go through by way of his supreme force of will? Or was he perhaps just a collosal figure? I'm interested in your thoughts. Kal P.S. Forgive me if this has been brought up elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kaelgrim Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I imagine he was an impressive, but normal human up until he started the super solder experiments. I think he took the cream of the crop for himself, and kept his body from rejecting things by pure force of will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 No. The Emprah is the reincarnated form of thousands of old humanities most wise shamans and mystics. He is not a a marine, but with his unparalleled psychic and intellectual might, it stands to reason he might be able to perform surgery or genetic work on himself. He is not, however, a product of the chemistry and biology which produced the Astartes and the Primarchs. P.S. forgiven ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalicurealm Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 You misunderstand me, I think, c-wrex. I know how the Emperor came to be (birthwise) chaos entities feeding on dead shaman (early psykers). I'm asking if, for example, he possesses the unique properties of someone who has undergone the transformation of human to astartes. Does he have two hearts? a ribcage that is solid as opposed to seperated? Can he become dizzy or does he have lymans ear? I suppose a better way of asking my question would have been to say this: Is the Emperor an astartes or a human who is 'naturally' larger then an astartes in terminator armour? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 You misunderstand me, I think, c-wrex. I know how the Emperor came to be (birthwise) chaos entities feeding on dead shaman (early psykers).I'm asking if, for example, he possesses the unique properties of someone who has undergone the transformation of human to astartes. Does he have two hearts? a ribcage that is solid as opposed to seperated? Can he become dizzy or does he have lymans ear? I suppose a better way of asking my question would have been to say this: Is the Emperor an astartes or a human who is 'naturally' larger then an astartes in terminator armour? Oh. Well, I think the Emprah is just a standard human, but "powered-up" as it were by his psychic power. I don't think he has any of the Astartes' specialized organs, or suffers from any of the difficulties that affect the bodies of other humans. Plus, I think he's bigger than marines, and some Primarchs like the Russ, but not as big as others, such as Magnus or Angron. Was that closer to the point? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalicurealm Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Sure is ;); Any other thoughts? Anyone? Anyone? Beuler? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kaelgrim Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Its entirely possible that the Emprah was not in fact taller than the Primarchs, considering he is THE MOST POWERFUL PSYKER TO EVER EXIST. He could be a midget using his mind to convince everyone he is huge. And thanks to my own imagination, I am forced to picture a tiny Emperor climbing up Horus' leg to stab him, while convincing Horus he was killing him some other way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Or he could indeed have been a Squat, but later legends have painted him as a big one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 And thanks to my own imagination, I am forced to picture a tiny Emperor climbing up Horus' leg to stab him, while convincing Horus he was killing him some other way. You, sir, are now officially inducted into my pantheon of heroes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokas Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 read the description of the emperor in the thousand sons book. it pretty definitively defines him as being a deity like figure, like his body is simply a vessel for him to be able to appear in reality not just the warp. apparently when he talks you dont even see his face move. he is not a SM because of what i just said and he was around LONG before SM ever were, before the Thunder Warriors even. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2324836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Never believed the Shaman story... it's rather old and even the Red shirts at my LGS don't believe it. To me, the Emperor was a man. Who found his way to Chaos. Then when he got enough power and knowledge gave 'em the finger. And all that history about the Emperor? Remember 1984 by George Orwell? History is written by the victor (and we know the Emperor liked his secrets and half truths as much as he loved telling everyone he believed in somethin else called "light and illumination") Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2325100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrl Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 It's a nice theory but I would have to stick to the old fluff - the old fluff is the best fluff, or atleast the most interesting for me. I don't agree that the Emperor is either human (as in Homo Sapiens) nor Space Marine - last time I checked my parents didn't sacrifice thier souls to create me, so I'm probably not a whatever-the-Emperor-is. I'd say he's essentially a personification of the psychic will of the Shamans who created him and while he might "wear" a material form he is at his core a psychic being (read: what Eldrad and co wishe they were). The old fluff states that he's been around since the dawn of man in one form or another guiding humanity from the shadows until he revealed himself and began the Great Crusade. As it's clear he hasn't always been an 10' shining giant (would tend to stick out in a crowd) he simply adopted a form most suitable to his current role - we think of a semi-divine warlord and picture a classical greek warrior, so we get a classical greek warrior of a scale greater than ourselves. I don't mean that in the same way as the Chaos Gods (e.g. we feel rage and so Khorne is a bestial demon lord), he chose this form for it's impact rather than the collective will of humanity moulding him to his form. Cyrl Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2325123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 What about the Emperor actually being a God, a Order God instead of a Chaos God. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2325141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeden Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 What about the Emperor actually being a God, a Order God instead of a Chaos God. Read Liber Chaotica: There is no Order, only Chaos. All members of the Pantheon are part of the Great Pantheon of Chaos. Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Sigmar, Khaine, Isha, Myrmidia, etc etc. ALL Gods are Gods of Chaos. The difference is is that some Chaos Gods are the Ruinous Powers, and the others are little better than them.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2325145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalicurealm Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share Posted March 19, 2010 Hmm.. I remember in the tales of the heresy book that while the Emperor is speaking with the old priest (whom he saved earlier in his life) he hid his true form... The thing however, is this. even though his body was merely a vessel for his will (just as ours are for ours). Wouldn't the Emperor want to buff up his body? I mean, psychic or not, we've all had our psykers killed by a bolt pistol or something else equally strange. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2325253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane of Angels Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I think that the old fluff revealed too much and went off on a tangent with the whole star child thing. The way I see it the Emperor is a man but the most powerful psyker of the human race far beyond regular psykers. I don't think that he is a god and he is mortal because Horus saved his life when an ork was strangling him. His size is an issue that seems to change from artist to artist. If he is a regular human size then his powers no doubt augment his abilities considerably because he best Russ in single combat. If he is Primarch sized then he must be able to mask his true form using his powers to have existed in secrecy up until the age of strife and the unification wars. I don't think that he's augmented in the same way as marines though because I don't think that he'd need to be. The Primarchs were made from his own genetic material and the marines are watered down versions of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2325296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgertron Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I seem to recall some one GW side saying that what is printed as cannon is such (so yeah, I guess this means some of weird and wonderful stuff in RoC is still valid..), but it can just be an opinion. After all, most fluff is written from an Imperial point of view.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I'd say he's essentially a personification of the psychic will of the Shamans who created himIn which case he couldn’t really have also been around since the dawn of man. Or did the shamen exist before the dawn of man? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kaelgrim Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I believe they stated that he was born in like 3000 BC? (I know it involved the number 3) in Anatoly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Haha! So the God–Emperor is Turkish? :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalicurealm Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 There are several references to his physical prowess mentioned in books and primarch stories. 1) Besting russ 2) picking up a salamander that was larger then vulkans 3) pulling vulcan up 4) the custodian assassin story in tales of the heresy etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Haha! So the God–Emperor is Turkish? :) No. But Turks may share a common ancestry with the shamans that made him. The 'ethnicity' of the shamans was not, to my knowledge, ever stated. It may be that the shamans were from all over... which I consider likely, considering their number. reason for edit: added quote. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 And it all leads to an interesting discussion of "My dads better than your dad... Becuse my dad created racial genocide.." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2326859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Haha! So the God–Emperor is Turkish? :rolleyes: No. But Turks may share a common ancestry with the shamans that made him. The 'ethnicity' of the shamans was not, to my knowledge, ever stated. It may be that the shamans were from all over... which I consider likely, considering their number. reason for edit: added quote. And Turks aren't from Anatoly. They were nomads that arrived in that region sometime before the/in the beggining of the Middle Ages. And shamanism is the oldest form of religion in the history of humanity - it can even be considered the proto-religion - so saying that he was created by shamans at the "dawn of time" is not necessarily wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2327085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 And shamanism is the oldest form of religion in the history of humanity - it can even be considered the proto-religion - so saying that he was created by shamans at the "dawn of time" is not necessarily wrong. Weeeellllllllll....technically Solar worship is the oldest form of worship, and shamanism is a type of religion on its own, like monotheism is. In any case, shamanism was at its height at the very earliest of human civilizations, so that "dawn of time" bit you put is probably right. Sorry, I nitpick on theology. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/195257-is-the-emperor-a-space-marine/#findComment-2327378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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