Abnett Confirms Legion Question

[Octavulg]

In this case, it's because the concept of a secret twin really is stupid. Not least because, IIRC, it's implied the Emperor doesn't know about Omegon. And that apparently the other Primarchs don't.

 

Like Aurelius said - it's a soap-opera plot twist. 40K does not need more stupid ideas.

[BrotherLoki]

I like the idea the Emperor doesn't know about Omegon, and in my opinion it makes sense. For all his precognitive ability he has a passive blind spot where the Primarchs are concerned. They just don't seem to show up on his radar when he's looking into the future etc.

[Octavulg]

If you buy the HH fluff, weren't the Primarch incubators lost at a point where the Primarchs inside were already past the whole "tiny accumulation of cells" stage?

 

If so, then that means it would have been pretty obvious that one incubator had twins.

[malika666]

If you buy the HH fluff, weren't the Primarch incubators lost at a point where the Primarchs inside were already past the whole "tiny accumulation of cells" stage?

 

If so, then that means it would have been pretty obvious that one incubator had twins.

 

No, the split could have happened when the incubator was in the Warp, similar to how Sanguinius got his wings and how Magnus turned into a red giant...

[Walter Payton]

*Charges Brother Captain Alecto with a Thunder Hammer*

 

Your first mistake

 

*Block's Thunder Hammer with Daemon Weapon, then calls over Kol Badar...

[Inquisitor Fox]

In this case, it's because the concept of a secret twin really is stupid. Not least because, IIRC, it's implied the Emperor doesn't know about Omegon. And that apparently the other Primarchs don't.

I like the idea the Emperor doesn't know about Omegon, and in my opinion it makes sense. For all his precognitive ability he has a passive blind spot where the Primarchs are concerned. They just don't seem to show up on his radar when he's looking into the future etc.

Have people considered that in the Star Child/Illuminati/Sensei fluff it specifies that the Emperor cannot detect the Sensei by psychic abilities? Wouldn't therefore it make some sense that as the Sensei are literal children of the Emperor, that his genetic pseudo-children, the Primarchs, would also have some measure of this same ability that the Sensei have? It's quite possible GW is sticking closer to their fluff than otherwise indicated...

[Ashe Darke]

While it's not been exclusively said as far as I know, I'm pretty sure they're shying away from the whole Sensei aspect of the fluff so I don't know how relevant it is.

 

The Emperor is not as awesome and observant as most people make him out to be. Sure he was all powerful etc etc but it doesn't mean he can never do wrong and that he will never make a mistake.

[husi2100]

isnt there some captain of alpha legion, i dont remember his name, that acts as alpharius when both alph and omg dont have time?

so if he was alpharius/omegon (or is omegeon) at the time when the great smurf "kill" him, both of the primarchs could still be alive.

[Brother Aristeo]

In this case, it's because the concept of a secret twin really is stupid.

About as stupid as a collar with a beakie helm, Octavulg? Hope you don't have to look down to shoot anything... because you can't. :P I have to give you a hard time since that's my Primarch you're talking about. ;)

 

Seriously though, I thought the whole twin thing was a bit weird when I first read it, but the fact that it originated as an obscure piece of Rogue Trader fluff is awesome. It definitely makes the idea more original as opposed to some kind of soap opera twist. Besides, I think the twin thing is going to play a big factor in how things play out for the Alpha Legion during the Heresy and afterwards.

 

The warp transit theory seems to be the best for explaining how they ended up as twins. How else would the Emperor not be aware? Sometimes I wonder if they're not like flip sides of the same coin, sort of like when Kirk got split in two after a transporter accident on classic Star trek.

 

And speaking of why the secret is kept hidden, I think the other Primarchs would have been seriously threatened by the thought of twin Primarchs.

[Octavulg]

As someone else said...even in Rogue Trader, the idea wasn't good enough. If it wasn't a good enough idea in Rogue Trader, it is a terrible idea.

 

Also, I can move my torso. Necks are for weaker Marines.

[Aurelius Rex]

It is clear that there are people who disliked the concept of the twin idea and those who embraced it, and that neither side is going to convince the other. ;)

 

Both sides have stated their preference and knowing it, I will respect it, even if I may not agree with it... Maturely agreeing to disagree. :D

[Verythrax Draconis]

Maturely agreeing to disagree. :)

 

A Chesterton acolyte? *claps* :P

[Corsair]

I like the idea that the twins are literally half a primarch each, including each half being less powerful in a standup fight when compared to their older brothers.

 

This could also explain why they were able to blend in easier with their marines; half a primarch blends in easier (power-wise, people would probably notice a set of overly large legs running around kicking xenos), and not being quite so all-powerful would also explain the emphasis on stealth and a lack of dependence by the Alpha Legion on their primarch when it comes to arse-kicking.

 

In short, I like this idea (and Legion itself), because it gives the Alpha Legion more character than 'they infiltrate stuff and have weird looking highlights on their armour'

[Ashe Darke]

I bet when Alpharius first boarded the Vengeful Spirit and made his way onto the bridge, Omegon was sneaking up to Horus from behind, but when they saw each other and realised what was going on they went in for a Horus sandwich hug.

 

It was deemed a bit 'funny' and so left out of Imperial records which stated that just Alpharius turned up as he wasn't the one trying to hug a guy from behind.

[Badhaggis]

but it could be they guy on the ship wasn't even alpherius! im joking, dont hit me with a codex :)

[Ubermensch Commander]

It is clear that there are people who disliked the concept of the twin idea and those who embraced it, and that neither side is going to convince the other. :)

 

Both sides have stated their preference and knowing it, I will respect it, even if I may not agree with it... Maturely agreeing to disagree. :D

 

This. I agree with Rex and Octavulg. Inane idea. But oh well. Cannot please everyone. Just have to disagree.

[IronWinds]

Who ever said the Emp didn't know about Omegon? And even if someone did say... wouldn't it be like the AL to lie about it. Maybe he knew the cells split and there were twins. If he didn't notice then I imagine he would notice when he found Alpharius... or that the marines from Terra would inform him. He probably saw the advantages they would have because of it. He might have even done it on purpose but just never revealed it to his other sons. If you are going to make a twin primarch for anyone it should be Alpharius. Two Angrons... no thats bad, Two Magnus... might create a new Eye of Terror, Two Fulgrims.. you can't both be the most handsome, Two Horus... so which one is Warmaster? But with Alpharius it makes a little sense. I don't mind it.

[Candleshoes]

isnt there some captain of alpha legion, i dont remember his name, that acts as alpharius when both alph and omg dont have time?

so if he was alpharius/omegon (or is omegeon) at the time when the great smurf "kill" him, both of the primarchs could still be alive.

 

His name was Captain Sheed Ranko of the Alpha Legion's Lernaen Terminator Squad. He is the Golden armoured "Alpharius" that Roboute Guilliman beheads. Sheed was the same height as his Primarchs.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It is clear that there are people who disliked the concept of the twin idea and those who embraced it, and that neither side is going to convince the other. :)

 

Both sides have stated their preference and knowing it, I will respect it, even if I may not agree with it... Maturely agreeing to disagree. :)

:D I don't agree to disagree! :) I disagree! Die! Die!! DIE!!! *Swings black sword at pc exponent*

[Dràyhèn]

isnt there some captain of alpha legion, i dont remember his name, that acts as alpharius when both alph and omg dont have time?

so if he was alpharius/omegon (or is omegeon) at the time when the great smurf "kill" him, both of the primarchs could still be alive.

 

His name was Captain Sheed Ranko of the Alpha Legion's Lernaen Terminator Squad. He is the Golden armoured "Alpharius" that Roboute Guilliman beheads. Sheed was the same height as his Primarchs.

Where you picked that? Wasn't in Legion - at least I didn't notice?

Nevermind, now I remember.

[Legatus]

isnt there some captain of alpha legion, i dont remember his name, that acts as alpharius when both alph and omg dont have time?

so if he was alpharius/omegon (or is omegeon) at the time when the great smurf "kill" him, both of the primarchs could still be alive.

His name was Captain Sheed Ranko of the Alpha Legion's Lernaen Terminator Squad. He is the Golden armoured "Alpharius" that Roboute Guilliman beheads. Sheed was the same height as his Primarchs.

- Before Guilliman fought against the alleged "Alpharius", said Alpharius swatted aside numerous Ultramarines like nothing.

 

- After they fought, the Ultramarines fended off the rest of the Alpha Legion involved in that encounter and then took the time to burn the bodie.

 

- At the time the Index Astartes was written there was no concept of twin Primarchs or Legionnaires that looked like their primarch, so when the Index Astartes' author wrote "Alpharius" he did indeed intend it to be the Primarch.

 

Thus, if the battle on Eskrador did happen (the whole account is questionable), then it was Alpharius that was killed in the duel with Guilliman. Unless that bit was specifically retconed in "Legion".

[Candleshoes]

isnt there some captain of alpha legion, i dont remember his name, that acts as alpharius when both alph and omg dont have time?

so if he was alpharius/omegon (or is omegeon) at the time when the great smurf "kill" him, both of the primarchs could still be alive.

His name was Captain Sheed Ranko of the Alpha Legion's Lernaen Terminator Squad. He is the Golden armoured "Alpharius" that Roboute Guilliman beheads. Sheed was the same height as his Primarchs.

- Before Guilliman fought against the alleged "Alpharius", said Alpharius swatted aside numerous Ultramarines like nothing.

 

- After they fought, the Ultramarines fended off the rest of the Alpha Legion involved in that encounter and then took the time to burn the bodie.

 

- At the time the Index Astartes was written there was no concept of twin Primarchs or Legionnaires that looked like their primarch, so when the Index Astartes' author wrote "Alpharius" he did indeed intend it to be the Primarch.

 

Thus, if the battle on Eskrador did happen (the whole account is questionable), then it was Alpharius that was killed in the duel with Guilliman. Unless that bit was specifically retconed in "Legion".

 

 

I follow your logic to a point.

 

But when you take into consideration that the article was written for the purpose of showing one thing, how far and how large the Alpha Legion can operate their deception, they essentially removed their Primarch from the Imperium's minds. The article wasn't written as a grande story of post-heresy combat between primarchs, and if people read it like that, their daft.

 

Where I lose your train of thought is how you conclude that if the event happened (which in all likelyhood, the 2 legions did clash on the planet) why it had to be Alpharius who placed himself in a decoy situation, wearing golden plate, and allowed himself be killed in one stroke? Twin or not, Sheed Ranko or not, this smellys like dead fish. Even if the specifics such as twin primarchs, or identical marines weren't known at the time (which they were by GW and seen as assumed, watch the video at post 1) this is still an article written for and by a legion who lives and breathes secrets and lies.

 

Taking stated falseities at face value is a bad idea, and by the looks of it, the Imperium allowed a Primarch(s) to just vanish.

[Aurelius Rex]

@Candleshoes - That aside, where did you get the information about Sheed? It may not have been your intention, but it came over as though you were stating a fact rather than basing it on supposition and extrapolation. Can you give us your source for this so we can judge for ourselves? :)

[Brother Aristeo]

In the Index Astartes article, Alpharius was referenced as being taller without armour than the power armoured Luna Wolves. The idea that being half a Primarch made one of the twins any smaller in stature than the other Primarchs is a misconception. I personally think the reason Alpharius was so adept at recruiting operatives was so THEY could infiltrate where he could not, like instances where blending in with regular humans was necessary (probably quite often).

 

It is specifically stated in Legion that nobody outside the Alpha Legion knows that Alpharius and Omegon are twins. This would strongly suggest that the Emperor does not know. This would further suggest that since the Emperor does not know, something caused the Primarch to split in two (possibly warp transit, although this is speculation).

 

Sheed Ranko was a great stand-in for the Primarch due to his great size, but he was still smaller (this is pointed out in Legion by Chayne). Since Alpharius said he couldn't make it to Ullanor, I think it was Sheed who was sent in his place (speculation). I've never seen anything that definitively stated that sheed Ranko wore the golden armour or that he was killed by Guilliman. The picture of Alpharius in golden armour was done awhile ago by John Blanche before there was ever a description of what Alpharius looked like, so chalk it up to creative license. Alpharius is said to look a lot like Horus.

[shatter]

With His genetic tinkering, I'm comfortable believing he made them as is. Anything that claims He doesn't know is because He said He didn't or an assumption was made. The Emperor is quite capable of telling falsehood: Alpharius and Omegon are the forked tongued facets of Himself.

 

If I were the twins, I'd get myself 'killed' too.