Wraiths of Darkness

[Captain Juan Juarez]

They are heretics.. If they don't follow the Emperor that makes them heretics!

They don't worship Chaos.

 

Look I'll run this through with you guys after I finish the Beliefs and Recruitment sections.

 

Worship of Chaos has nothing to do with heresy.. It's just the most common cause.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Chaos doesn't have nothing to do with heresy. That's not quite right. Anyone turning from the Emperor and his teachings (aka any part of the Imperium in general) is called a heretic. Since Chaos manipulates people through their fears, hopes and ambitions it is the leading cause of heresy in the Imperium.

 

It is also the original definition for heresy. Remember that during the Great Crusade the Imperium was not a religiously run institution as it is today. It was a secular, scientifically based society lead by the Emperor himself who decried religion. There was no 'heresy' until the Horus Heresy.

 

Though coming back on-topic I do agree. The Wraiths are heretics in the Imperium's eyes, and those are the only ones who apply the 'heretic' label. The Wraiths have turned from the Emperor and his servants and are therefore branded traitors and heretics, whether they worship chaos or not is a moot point. They simply are heretics. You can't squirm around in trying to define them as something you don't think they are because you don't agree with the definition of heresy in the context of 40k.

[Shinzaren]

Regardless of what they are branded as by the Imperium, and they would be branded Heretics, your boys aid Chaos. They might not worship Chaos, but by selling your swords to the highest bidder, who is Chaos, you are aiding them against the Imperium. You might only be trying to survive from day to day, but the Imperium will see you as aiding the Great Enemy. Don't try and make them misunderstood good guys. They're everything the Imperium considers an enemy. Work that angle. They decry Chaos, but they are themselves cast outs. They have no place, and everyday is a brutal fight doing whatever is necessary to survive. They're evil only in that they have very loose morals on how to survive. :)

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I wasn't trying ot squirm around them being heretics, I was merely making an observation that they aren't the standard heretics who worship Chaos - they worship nothing at all.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Sorry guys, haven't been able to put time into the Wraiths lately... I'll see if I can fix that soon. Don't get your hopes up though.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I have returned!

 

However briefly... I am writing the beliefs now.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Beliefs

 

The Wraiths of Darkness believe in the Chaos Gods, and they believe the Emperor is a name for a technology that creates the Astrominicon. However, the Wraiths do not worship the Chaos Gods, seeing the fate of those who have turned to Chaos. This rule has been broken once, and nearly forced the Wraiths to destruction.

 

Thus, the Wraiths have raised a corps of elite Librarians who moniter the Summoning they are attached to, similar in role to a Chaplain. Each of these individual Librarians is tasked with seeking out an apprentice, so that when they fall, the apprentice may replace them. Linking with the rest of the warband quickly is only availible psychicly, and thus the Librarians are chosen only when the rest of the Librarians, most importantly the Phantom Lord, have given their leave to accept him into the brotherhood.

 

The Wraiths do believe in earning their place through a mix of natural ability and experience. They also condemn killing your superior to earn a quick promotion, in an effort to keep Chaos from invading the system. This is but one example of the many shields the Wraiths have put around themselves from Chaos, for no other Gods can truly sway the Wraiths, and the Wraiths know they must remain their own masters to prevent their eventual destruction.

 

This may prove to be their undoing, as without support from the Chaos Gods the Wraiths have much less in the ways of prosecuting their own wars, and breaking free of their eternal cycle of being hired by the next rising warband.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Dark Apostle Thirst

[Leonaides]

If they are hired, then they have the choice of not acceptign teh hire. If they are press-ganged into it then they have no choice and will end up dead. This bit:

and breaking free of their eternal cycle of being hired by the next rising warband.

does not make sense.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I saw the reply on the Liber index, and went "Oh crap! Leonides commented!" ;)

 

If they are hired, then they have the choice of not acceptign teh hire. If they are press-ganged into it then they have no choice and will end up dead. This bit:

and breaking free of their eternal cycle of being hired by the next rising warband.

does not make sense.

Yes, but they 1) need the resources and 2) need to uphold their reputation, and if they turned down the highest bidders, well, it wouldn't end too well.

[Leonaides]

But you know I'm only querying stuff so you can make it better... B)

But why do they need the resources? To make more kit and equip more recruits.

Why do they need to make more kit and equip more recruits? Because they keep getting killed fighting other peoples wars.

Why do they keep fighting other peoples wars? Because they need the payment/resources.

But why do they need the resources?...

 

See what i'm getting at here? What do they lose by not trying to ammass as much resources? They stay smaller. They stay smaller, then less of a target. They dont fight other peoples wars, so they dont lose as many marines. They dont lose as many marines so they need less resources. They need a carrot to aim at. They will never be anything other than a small fish on a glaactic scale - if they even start getting too big the Imperium will find them and squash them straight back down again, even if some suspicious Chaos Lord doesnt do it... Are they trying to survive? Or are they simply trying to produce quasi-chaos marines for other Warbands to use as meat shields? What purpose would they have in prosecuting theri own wars? Do they war to refuel their ships? Do they war to retake theri homeworld? (a bad idea by the way, as that just gives the Imperium a nice "We're here!" sign) What motivates these guys now that they are no longer fighting for the Emperor? Chaos fight for jealously, anger, or hatred. But your guys dont have that (if they do its not really something you've mentioned so much). So waht stops these guys from simply packing it in, heading out to some backwater planet in teh middle of nowheresville and pretending to be a bunch of Ogryn? That'd be a far better survival mechanism from what they currently have...

 

One day we'll get this damned chapter sorted...

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I think a familiar Night Lord, by the name of Talos, answers a similar question asked by the current Warmaster, it being thus -

 

"Because I have nothing else. I was born to fight, and forged in the fires of war. I am astartes. I fight because it is right that we fight. The Emperor abandoned the Great Crusade, and demanded that humanity pave the way for his ascension to Godhood. I don't expect to topple him form his Golden throne, but such hubris, such evil must always be opposed."

 

Huh. Now that I've read it again, that doesn't seem the answer I want to give for these guys. Maybe something more like this -

 

"Because we will never find peace. We are too proud to run for freedom, but too weak to gain the power to earn our freedom. In a sense, we have already earned survival, for none have attacked us since we fled the Black Legion, but yet we have nearly died to protect that. Even if we did somehow slice a corner of our galaxy so that we would remain at peace, how long would that last?"

 

Hmm. Not sure. I may have to rewrite that mission statement.

[Leonaides]

So I have suceeded in helping then. To make sure you're writing the things you think you're writing, and that what you're writing is actually what you want to write.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

So I have suceeded in helping then. To make sure you're writing the things you think you're writing, and that what you're writing is actually what you want to write.

Of course, of course... ^_^

 

You do remember that infamous qoute about bowling balls and people at the Liber though ;) :D

[Ace Debonair]

So I have suceeded in helping then. To make sure you're writing the things you think you're writing, and that what you're writing is actually what you want to write.

Of course, of course... :(

 

You do remember that infamous qoute about bowling balls and people at the Liber though :lol: :D

 

If it wasn't my quote that (I think) you mean I'd chime in with "You mean the one that hints at the eventual evolution of stronger faces?" ;)

 

Is this any good as a re-worded 'mission statement' for your chapter?

 

"Because we will never find peace. To seek freedom by fleeing is beneath us. We are survivors. Ever since we fled the rage of the Black Legion we have balanced on the knife's edge between life and death. And even if we did somehow claim a corner of the galaxy so that we would remain at peace, how long would that last?"

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

So I have suceeded in helping then. To make sure you're writing the things you think you're writing, and that what you're writing is actually what you want to write.

Of course, of course... ^_^

 

You do remember that infamous qoute about bowling balls and people at the Liber though :rolleyes: :D

 

If it wasn't my quote that (I think) you mean I'd chime in with "You mean the one that hints at the eventual evolution of stronger faces?" ;)

 

Is this any good as a re-worded 'mission statement' for your chapter?

 

"Because we will never find peace. To seek freedom by fleeing is beneath us. We are survivors. Ever since we fled the rage of the Black Legion we have balanced on the knife's edge between life and death. And even if we did somehow claim a corner of the galaxy so that we would remain at peace, how long would that last?"

That's not quite it either. They have nothing else but to survive, and doing it by disguising themselves as Ogryns just wouldn't cut it.

 

They have ambition, but it isn't to rule the galaxy, or to carve themselves a mini empire for peace... They don't want to have to hide! That's it!

 

"We fight because one day, we will have earned our place in the galaxy as something more. Something that is feared and revered, something that is held as above that which others cannot acheive. To be those who can walk among the beasts of Chaos and not be attacked, to be those who would make even the Imperium pause before making war. To be unhounded by the alien, the mutant, the heretic, because we earned it, and they cannot even raise a weapon against us."

 

Perfect! That's going in the IT.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

As for 'mercenary but not chaos' how about involving the services of radical mechanicus factions?

 

Even the Dark Mechanicus, while being chaos worshipers somewhat would probably be more than willing to hire the Wraiths for use in finding tech, or keeping something out of wider AdMech hands without having to get directly involved.

 

Just a random thought, though I don't know if it's already come up or not. I'm tired and I haven't the will to go back through ten pages of posts to find out.

 

Plenty of Xenos would be willing to pay for their services too. Widen your scope a little and you make your lack of chaos worship a bit more feasible.

 

:Edit:

 

Also on the mission statement I think a better one for Mercenaries is: "Because we can."

 

As a Mercenary you are essentially amoral. Fighting for honour, loyalty, duty are equally pointless to fighting for vengeance, hatred and blind ambition. If they want to survive and be untouchable just go outside the boundries of the galaxy.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Grey Hunter Ydalir

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Working with the Dark Mechanicus would take part of their secrecy, and therefore, their power away.

 

They don't mind being hired by Chaos, but they don't serve Chaos. Subtle difference.

 

I picked that one for the Wraiths, because, well, it fit. Anything else seems like second rate simply because that was the feel for the Wraiths when I started messing with them, way back when I did the joke thread (this thread, now that I think of it).

 

EDIT : Ooh, I thought you meant having Dark Mechanicus as part of the Wraiths. My bad.

 

They are probably hired by the Dark Mechanicus all the time. They have tones of resources, after all.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Dark Apostle Thirst

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Recruitment

 

The Wraiths have three methods of recruitment. The most common one is for the senior members of the Summonings to stop on each populated world they pass briefly, stopping only to take the few worthy in a matter of hours, en route towards whatever target they have been hired to remove. This ensures a fairly steady stream of recruits with minimal loss of resources and time.

 

These recruits are sent to the strike cruiser Dark Truth, where they are trained by the few chosen by the Phantom Lord specificly for that purpose. They undergo a year of training and implantation, and are sent back to the Summoning that needs them the most. The only exception are the psychic recruits, as they are trained by the Librarian who found them unless directly ordered otherwise by the Phantom Lord.

 

The second most common method is that of capture. This is often favored by the Librarians of the Wraiths, who are direct links to the Phantom Lord's will. Those captured are usually taken one at time, bound, and taken to the Thunderhawk. Once aboard the Wraiths vessel, they are held until they are broken and absorbed into the warband. This generally happens to only two or three astartes per conflict, depending on the size of the conflict, and as most conflicts are with loyal or traitor guard, the traditional way of getting recruits brings in far more than this method. This is only compounded by the fact that most Loyalists would rather die than give in, and they often manage to.

 

The third and final method is much like the second, only on a larger scale. If the Summoning is desperate enough, they may attempt to capture a small warband to replenish their numbers. Otherwise, this manner of recruits is usually ordered by the Phantom Lord in an attempt to create another Summoning by swelling the numbers of one so that it may be split into two slightly under-strength Summonings. This has the possibility of ending disastrously, with one or both Summonings having their recruits rebelling and eventually forcing the other Summonings to destroy them.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Dark Apostle Thirst

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

'kicks back'

 

So, nothing I need to fix on beliefs or recruitment? I'm going to add beliefs to the main page in a second, I would like that reviewed to see if it all fits together.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I'm thinking the Wraiths theme song should be "I stand alone" by Godsmack. Any comments on this, or the above, would be appreciated.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Quintiple post :cuss C'mon, guys, even if you have nothing to say, tell me you don't think it can be improved so I can add it to the first post.

[Leonaides]

The second most common method is that of capture. This is often favored by the Librarians of the Wraiths, who are direct links to the Phantom Lord's will, and those captured are held until they are broken and absorbed into the warband. This generally happens to only five or six astartes per conflict, and as most conflicts are with loyal or traitor guard, the traditional way of getting recruits brings in far more than this method.

 

The third and final method is much like the second, only on a larger scale. If the Summoning is desperate enough, they may attempt to capture a small warband to replenish their numbers. Otherwise, this manner of recruits is usually ordered by the Phantom Lord in an attempt to create another Summoning by swelling the numbers of one so that it may be split into two slightly under-strength Summonings. This has the possibility of ending disastrously, with one or both Summonings having their recruits rebelling and eventually forcing the other Summonings to destroy them.

 

Erm, I'd suggest that these get put the other way around, and I really really doubt that you'll manage to turn 5 or 6 astartes after every battle you have against them. You might be lucky to turn 1 or 2 in every 5-10 battles. You underestimate the mental fortitude of loyalist astartes, and the depth of hatred they have for their traitor brethren here I feel.

 

Your third method is probably the most common way for chaos marine warbands to get more numerous - read the short story about IW guy going to a competition held by Huron Blackheart in which every entrant bets their lives, and the leadership of their warbands for the chance to gain control of every warband entered for example. Its trial by combat of course... On a more general scale, 2 warbands might fight, one leader dies and the losing side might have some marines captured. Those marines have a choice, swear fealty to their captors or be killed. Both they and their captors know the value of a fully trained/gorwn marine so its a worthwhile exchange, and for some warbands/traitor marines, their word is all they have. they still have a sense of honour after all. Sometimes...

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Erm, meant capture, spirit away, then break. Usually one at a time, at least for the capture. I'll edit that to clarify.

 

Summonings, generally only being a company strong plus support (which is often two techmarines and a few vehicles) generally don't have the option of just absorbing small warbands. Understrength, this just makes it all the more difficult, which why they only attempt it when desperate.

 

The main problem with the capturing of astartes (especially chaos marines) is that you can't trust them, as you pointed out. They would have to be broken, and ironicly this is easier to do with Loyalists than Chaos Marines, simply because Chaos Marines have dealt with so much more spirit breaking stuff than Loyalists have, mostly because they hang out in a place that defies sanity. Loyalists have a bubble of belief around themselves, pop that bubble and they need something else to guide them. Enter Wraith Librarian.

 

I may have to flesh that out a little more.

 

Also, the little Motivation section wasn't too bad?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Loyalists have a bubble of belief around themselves, pop that bubble and they need something else to guide them. Enter Wraith Librarian.

 

I think you're making it out to be a lot simpler than it is. Breaking a fundamentalist for any cause is a hard task. Any Astartes with absolute conviction in his mission and reason for being will be neigh unbreakable.

 

If it was so straightforward the members of the less scrupulous chaos warbands would be doing it all the time to keep their numbers up.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Loyalists have a bubble of belief around themselves, pop that bubble and they need something else to guide them. Enter Wraith Librarian.

 

I think you're making it out to be a lot simpler than it is. Breaking a fundamentalist for any cause is a hard task. Any Astartes with absolute conviction in his mission and reason for being will be neigh unbreakable.

 

If it was so straightforward the members of the less scrupulous chaos warbands would be doing it all the time to keep their numbers up.

Of course I'm making it simpler than it really is. It's still true, though, as far as I'm concerned, and most Chaos marines would rather slaughter Loyalists than convert them, so... ;)

 

Also, I do think you are slightly overestimating them. If it were so hard, there wouldn't be Chaos marines.

 

Again, I'll clarify and expand later.

 

How about the motivation section on page 1? How is the IT as a whole?