Mephiston

[DetholicHawk]

Rune Priests can cancel any power within 24" on 4+, unless they use Njal Stormcaller who does it on a 3+.

[Decoy]

Jaws can only be -targeted- on a model outside CC, to my knowledge. However, there are a few crafty Wolves who will meet Mephy, and only Mephy (and any squad he's with) out in front of his main battle line, allowing for a Jaws shot from either flank. The line is targeted on a model outside CC, but Jaws can be shot into CC.

 

Furthermore, page 42 of the rulebook: "Models struck by a T-hammer and not killed will be struck reeling, reducing their initiative value to 1 until the end of the next player's turn."

 

It's a favored tactic of dropping Mephy for me; horridly effective, and allows for a plethora of countercharge options, even if he's well-supported by other squads. Dakkadakka folks refer to Lash as "Fzorgle", but in my mind, nothing says "Fzorgle" like instagibbing a high-I character with a Jaws, with Thunderhammer support.

[Morticon]

..t in my mind, nothing says "Fzorgle" like instagibbing a high-I character with a Jaws, with Thunderhammer support.

 

You've only got only got a 10% chance of that happening though...so..good luck.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

JAWS works on the unmodified initiative so Mephiston would still need to roll a 6 to go away.

 

0b :D

[Morticon]

JAWS works on the unmodified initiative so Mephiston would still need to roll a 6 to go away.

 

0b :D

 

And with the hood in play, you're looking at a statistical average of around 10% :P

[Decoy]

That's what I get for speaking without looking at the Wolf dex. And for some reason, I can't seem to find mine, either... Hm.

 

Well, if Jaws works on unmodified, then I guess that throws that particular tactic out the window. I'll have to dig through Dakka again, as there was a general consensus on their YMDC forum that that tactic works, but I can't remember the details. I'll slip back in here if I can find it. If not, then I'm horridly, horridly wrong!

[Morticon]

Mnn - sorry just read the TH stuff - thats interesting. I'll reserve judgement on it until I check out all the rules.

 

Seems like it could be viable- though, incredibly difficult to pull off.

[Decoy]

Seeing as all of Dakka's points had to do with Arjac and a -thrown- thunderhammer, not the use of the Thunderhammer itself, I will simply follow up with this.

 

Page 8, under Characteristic Tests, do not use unmodified stats. Nor does Jaws, to my remembrance, if only because my opponents that I've used that against have agreed; I'd call anyone who has a Wolf dex to check it out.

 

If so, then Mephy is running at I5 and can get Fzorgled (if his hood doesn't work) on a 2+. (Mort, what's the percentage on your Hood shutting out a Jaws? Genuinely curious.)

 

If NOT, however, and I'm horridly, embarassingly wrong, then Mephy scoffs at the Carnifex-sized fissure and finishes eating the T-hammer bearer.

 

Also, less on the "difficult to pull off", I think. I'm reasonably sure you could just aim Jaws at some guy behind Mephy (Also, confirmed; Jaws does not target, meaning that the line can cross through close combat, just not through Wolf models).

 

Definately tricky, but not overly difficult.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would be careful about taking rulings on YMDC as gospel. Certainly when Arjac throws his hammer it does not drop the initiative & this was the consensus over there.

 

0b ^_^

[Decoy]

Oh, I don't keep YMDC rulings as gospel, but they're oftentimes an excellent place to look for appropriate rules references and where they can be located.

 

I'm not too fond of the Dakkaboys as a general rule, but I can't deny that it's one of the better sources for rules interpretations by RAW.

[JamesI]

Honestly, I'm not sure if Thunderhammer's reduction of initiative applies to Jaws, but my instinct is that it does. If Mephy gets hit with a thunderhammer, he's at risk of Jaws seems to be accurate.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

It looks like a Thunder Hammer would definitely reduce Mephy's Initiative to 1, but would the thrown hammer do the same?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No, it works differently when used as a ranged attack.

 

0b :D

[Roland Durendal]

Mephy is def scary in CC, but there are simple ways to make sur ehe doesn't turn your army into a bloody mess, first and foremost being just shoot him...alot. THe more saves he's forced to make, the more likely he'll fail some.

 

As for one way my Wolves would handle him...rush him with a TH/SS LW who has a Fen Wolf in tow. And have my TWM WL hanging around nearby with his 2 TWC bodyguard. Once Mehpy is down to I1...that 19-24" charge range comes in and my Lord and crew come in to clean up Meph.

 

LW FTW - reroll hits on Meph, no insta-gibbing, have a wolf to take a wound (or 2 wolves if you have the points). Probably one of the cheaper, and more effective ways, of tying up Meph in CC. Even more so if you have a RP nearby to shut down his powers.

[Godhead]

Thats alot of hoping things work for jaws and a TH combo. I'd prefer to throw a speed bump at him setting up an ap1/2 barrage once he clears combat, and light up mephi's ass with some lascanon/plasma gun love and see whats left then. No need to compare WS, no worries about str 10 wreckage,no psychic hood rolls to be won, and he has to pop my transport to get my troops out who have either a mg/pg inside which fires on him again in the following round. Plus as a bonus, should my runepriest still be around and close enough, then Mephy may very well not have str to hit my tanks, so it could get sticky for him.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Its up to the player to protect Mephiston from a bad matchup in close combat. Space Wolves obviously have quite a few good counters.

 

0b <_<

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Its up to the player to protect Mephiston from a bad matchup in close combat. Space Wolves obviously have quite a few good counters.

 

0b :tu:

The one and only time I have faced Mephiston,It was actually a 9 man GH squad (the RP leading it got Periled to death trying to maintain Tempests wrath when Mephy was within 24 inches...blech) And that came from having the right Grey Hunter survive long enough to pop some Power fist love on him. Granted..Dealing with Mephiston gave the BA player more then long enough to swarm in and wipe me.

 

As for Arjac's throwing bit,I think I remember somewhere in the FAQ about it behaving as a Thunder hammer even when used at Range...I will check on that.

[JamesI]

Its up to the player to protect Mephiston from a bad matchup in close combat. Space Wolves obviously have quite a few good counters.

 

0b :tu:

The one and only time I have faced Mephiston,It was actually a 9 man GH squad (the RP leading it got Periled to death trying to maintain Tempests wrath when Mephy was within 24 inches...blech) And that came from having the right Grey Hunter survive long enough to pop some Power fist love on him. Granted..Dealing with Mephiston gave the BA player more then long enough to swarm in and wipe me.

 

As for Arjac's throwing bit,I think I remember somewhere in the FAQ about it behaving as a Thunder hammer even when used at Range...I will check on that.

Unless the FAQ has been updated, it doesn't say anything about still using Thunder Hammer rules when thrown.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That's correct.

 

0b :tu:

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Its up to the player to protect Mephiston from a bad matchup in close combat. Space Wolves obviously have quite a few good counters.

 

0b ;)

The one and only time I have faced Mephiston,It was actually a 9 man GH squad (the RP leading it got Periled to death trying to maintain Tempests wrath when Mephy was within 24 inches...blech) And that came from having the right Grey Hunter survive long enough to pop some Power fist love on him. Granted..Dealing with Mephiston gave the BA player more then long enough to swarm in and wipe me.

 

As for Arjac's throwing bit,I think I remember somewhere in the FAQ about it behaving as a Thunder hammer even when used at Range...I will check on that.

Tempest's Wrath, assuming that's the one that makes all Jump Infantry, Skimmers, etc. make dangers & difficult tests, wouldn't affect Mephiston.

It affects unit types, and Mephiston isn't Jump Infantry. Just like Jump Pack marines can't avoid it by moving like Infantry (6"), Meph can't change his unit type from infantry to ---.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Its up to the player to protect Mephiston from a bad matchup in close combat. Space Wolves obviously have quite a few good counters.

 

0b ;)

The one and only time I have faced Mephiston,It was actually a 9 man GH squad (the RP leading it got Periled to death trying to maintain Tempests wrath when Mephy was within 24 inches...blech) And that came from having the right Grey Hunter survive long enough to pop some Power fist love on him. Granted..Dealing with Mephiston gave the BA player more then long enough to swarm in and wipe me.

 

As for Arjac's throwing bit,I think I remember somewhere in the FAQ about it behaving as a Thunder hammer even when used at Range...I will check on that.

Tempest's Wrath, assuming that's the one that makes all Jump Infantry, Skimmers, etc. make dangers & difficult tests, wouldn't affect Mephiston.

It affects unit types, and Mephiston isn't Jump Infantry. Just like Jump Pack marines can't avoid it by moving like Infantry (6"), Meph can't change his unit type from infantry to ---.

I didn't say it would affect Mephiston. I said the RP got Periled from trying to cast it repeatedly thanks to Meph being within 24 inches and that damn psychic hood shutting it down. Not to mention my opponent trying to claim "I am walking so it doesn't affect my entire jump pack equipped army" but thats another story. As for the Arjac question,by the 2009 FAQ there is no mention of it still being counted as a Thunder Hammer when used at Range..It is entirely possible that I completely misinterpreted how it was supposed to be. In the description it says he can chuck his thunder hammer at people and it teleports back to his hand so that was probably the source of that confusion.

[Crynn]

For those people who believe that meph looses to the swarmlord you are very VERY wrong. If you are talking a straight duel meph will win about 70+% of the time. if the swarm lord has a bodyguard then its different but thats like saying meph has assault termies with him so here's why he wins.

A he will get the charge even without using wings due to fleet.

B in the nids turn before you charge in their assault phase you cast unleash rage which lasts a full turn not a player turn

C On your turn you charge use no psychic powers average 1.5 wounds on the swarmlord after invuns then you have 3 chances to pass your psychic test, easy. On average you should only need 2.

Granted this all circumstantial but that goes both ways. In a duel Meph will win

[Hazard]

For those people who believe that meph looses to the swarmlord you are very VERY wrong. If you are talking a straight duel meph will win about 70+% of the time. if the swarm lord has a bodyguard then its different but thats like saying meph has assault termies with him so here's why he wins.

A he will get the charge even without using wings due to fleet.

B in the nids turn before you charge in their assault phase you cast unleash rage which lasts a full turn not a player turn

C On your turn you charge use no psychic powers average 1.5 wounds on the swarmlord after invuns then you have 3 chances to pass your psychic test, easy. On average you should only need 2.

Granted this all circumstantial but that goes both ways. In a duel Meph will win

 

Quiet! Don't let the Nid players hear this! :)

 

People get so obsessed with Rage + Sword combo that they forget that charging Meph can simply put out 6 S6 powre weapon attacks get one unsaved wound and attempt the ID with his 3 force powers per turn.

[Spacefrisian]

Daemonprince with Mark of Khorne an Blessing of the blood god, and kfarn (if is charging and lucky) will eat Mephiston.

 

 

I wonder what they will do with Ahriman.

[Whitefireinferno]

Beat him to death horribly? Old Ahriman is just bad this time round having to roll for test and such and if he is there the prime candidate for ant LD mods like Dantes thing or death leaper and his whole no way to counter other powers quite sad but funny The whole Go Team Sorcery is kinda gimped now that everyone has made leaps and bounds in their Psyker levels.