Crynn Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 I think Ahriman will turn out more like a tigirus based character, not tough but extremely usefull in armies as well as having a full repertoire of offensive spells. And your right i should shh about meph vs nids. shall do from now on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Arjac makes baby Mephiston cry. Am I missing something here? ;) Why would Arjac make Mephiston cry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 I'm pretty sure death leapers power (-d3 ld) does work on mephiston, I'm reading the entry now and it clearly states "Nominate a single enemy character". It does not mention Independant character. I suppose it's a little vague but I would assume that means any named character or hq probably as well as our elite slot chaplins or Sanguinary priests ??? Anyone have any further thoughts on this ? I'd love to be proved wrong since my best mate always plays nids! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Check the debate in the OR I started! Arjac makes baby Mephiston cry. Am I missing something here? :) Why would Arjac make Mephiston cry? Because even if Mephy gets all of his attacks and wounds, it will not be enough to wipe out Arjacs squad. Arjac then gets 5 attacks that hit on 3s wound on 2s with no save and then hits the same time as Arjac. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 I had this thought the other day: Mephiston is to WH40k as Lebron James is to the NBA. When he rocks, he rolls. When he sucks, it can pull your whole list down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Ahriman should get 10 acros the board with a 2+/2++ save, He is 10 times older than Mephi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Check the debate in the OR I started! Arjac makes baby Mephiston cry. Am I missing something here? :) Why would Arjac make Mephiston cry? Because even if Mephy gets all of his attacks and wounds, it will not be enough to wipe out Arjacs squad. Arjac then gets 5 attacks that hit on 3s wound on 2s with no save and then hits the same time as Arjac. Ah, you were talking about a whole squad and Arjac. I thought you meant Mephiston vs Arjac. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Ahriman should get 10 acros the board with a 2+/2++ save, He is 10 times older than Mephi. So by that logic Abby should just make you win straight up unless you have said its one of his Crusades? Mr egypt may have been a capable sorc but not that good its easy to stay alive when you hide... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Ahriman should get 10 acros the board with a 2+/2++ save, He is 10 times older than Mephi. Age does not necessarily reflect power. Look at Dante, he's good but he isn't Mephiston in 500 years good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Not to get off topic (too late) but Arhiman sold himself to Chaos for all that power. Could you imagine what would happen if Mephiston fell? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcm979 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 ... He'd be heavily nerfed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burningblood Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 I meant fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2411960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazard Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 He'd be Mephiston the New Chaos God. The Prince of excess thinks Mephy is too excessive in his awesomeness. The God of Murder thinks Meph is too murderous. The lord of Sorcery is lost inside Mephiston's mind. And Nurgle is offended at him because Chuck Norris' tears cure everything and Meph is the only one that can(and periodicaly does) make him cry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Pickens Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Check the debate in the OR I started! Arjac makes baby Mephiston cry. Am I missing something here? :D Why would Arjac make Mephiston cry? Because even if Mephy gets all of his attacks and wounds, it will not be enough to wipe out Arjacs squad. Arjac then gets 5 attacks that hit on 3s wound on 2s with no save and then hits the same time as Arjac. This assumes Mephs controlling player is stupid, a bad player, or both. I dont know about you guys, but I dont throw him int 500+ pts of wolf guard and expect him to kill them all unsupported... now lets add in the squad Meph shelters behind for cover, and I like my chances against them better. He is a cruise missile for killing single hard targets, or he is a add on to take out something wicked in a combo charge, but he is not suitable for charging into a bunch of hard targets when he doesnt have enough attacks to wipe them out... thats madness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 This assumes Mephs controlling player is stupid, a bad player, or both. I dont know about you guys, but I dont throw him int 500+ pts of wolf guard and expect him to kill them all unsupported... now lets add in the squad Meph shelters behind for cover, and I like my chances against them better. He is a cruise missile for killing single hard targets, or he is a add on to take out something wicked in a combo charge, but he is not suitable for charging into a bunch of hard targets when he doesnt have enough attacks to wipe them out... thats madness. Arjac doesn't have to be in Wolf Guard. He's normally an upgrade for a Grey Hunter squad, meaning he's hiding out amongst the rank and file. 150 point squad, plus Arjac. Not quite 500+. :rolleyes: The benefit us Wolves has is a far, far better "Block-up" series of strategies, in which every one of our squads is supported. For instance, if I knew that Mephy were around, I'd have Arjac (and his Grey Hunter squad) in a position mid-line to counterattack into whatever Mephy decided to assault. Likewise, with other various Wolf armies, Wolves are very, -very- good at controlling jump-packers and other assaulting armies. For instance, while Mephy might be supported, the squad supporting him is suddenly hit by Tempest, meaning they have to Difficult (and Dangerous) terrain into assault. If a halfway-intelligent Wolf player is using this strategy, it will likely put the supporting squad out of charge range, leaving Mephiston to either abandon the charge and suffer rapid-fire plasma and bolter shots for a turn, or risk it and charge into the frontmost Hunter squad, whereupon he is charged on Wolf turn by Arjac's supporting squad. Placing Arjac in the middle of a Block-Up formation will allow him to counter-charge into any assaulting squad, allowing for ease of deployment and tactical maneuverability. Agreed, regardless, in regards to your analysis of Mephy. He can either be very, very good, or be a complete and utter waste of points, depending on both how you use him, and how your opponents respond to him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Its always a chess match with the randomness that dice brings when two good players face off. You have to be willing to take some risks if you want a good shot at winning. I am not a big fan of Mephiston because of all the anti psyker units available, which means he won't always using his full potential in a big fight. To me Arjac is well worth his points but then again I have seen SW players fail two saves before he ever gets to swing back... It happens. I do like Sanguinor though a lot, the 2+/3++ is really nice plus the buff to a sergeant is always a perk. Armies like BA & SW don't really need the special characters though to win but they are fun. 0b :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridlocked Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Mephiston IS Chuck Norris, its the new name he takes in the future to prevent people from realising. And anyone who says Chuck Norris the really the Emperor is wrong, because as we well know the Emperor nearly lost to Horrus; would Chuck Norris lost to THAT guy?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Well seeing is there is no rule for character you would have to divert to the next closest thing which would be independant character as there is nothing that says Meph is in rules is a character. But surely there is an FAQ for this otherwise you could in theory though you never would pick a bare bones tac marine and that just doesnt seem right. It's like the sanguinors randomly choose ability to upgrade a sergant. If you could choose it would be great but the random part implies it should be random and GW wouldnt include the word 'random' if they just ment choose. Like wise, I dont think GW would write the word 'character' if they just ment model or unit, and I realize this means you could target a vehicle but seeing as they dont have a ld value it would do nothing. So thats how my logic/argument stands, I think it has some merrit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 ^ | | | Erm... Lulwat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 This assumes Mephs controlling player is stupid, a bad player, or both. I dont know about you guys, but I dont throw him int 500+ pts of wolf guard and expect him to kill them all unsupported... now lets add in the squad Meph shelters behind for cover, and I like my chances against them better. He is a cruise missile for killing single hard targets, or he is a add on to take out something wicked in a combo charge, but he is not suitable for charging into a bunch of hard targets when he doesnt have enough attacks to wipe them out... thats madness. Arjac doesn't have to be in Wolf Guard. He's normally an upgrade for a Grey Hunter squad, meaning he's hiding out amongst the rank and file. 150 point squad, plus Arjac. Not quite 500+. :rolleyes: The benefit us Wolves has is a far, far better "Block-up" series of strategies, in which every one of our squads is supported. For instance, if I knew that Mephy were around, I'd have Arjac (and his Grey Hunter squad) in a position mid-line to counterattack into whatever Mephy decided to assault. Likewise, with other various Wolf armies, Wolves are very, -very- good at controlling jump-packers and other assaulting armies. For instance, while Mephy might be supported, the squad supporting him is suddenly hit by Tempest, meaning they have to Difficult (and Dangerous) terrain into assault. If a halfway-intelligent Wolf player is using this strategy, it will likely put the supporting squad out of charge range, leaving Mephiston to either abandon the charge and suffer rapid-fire plasma and bolter shots for a turn, or risk it and charge into the frontmost Hunter squad, whereupon he is charged on Wolf turn by Arjac's supporting squad. Placing Arjac in the middle of a Block-Up formation will allow him to counter-charge into any assaulting squad, allowing for ease of deployment and tactical maneuverability. Agreed, regardless, in regards to your analysis of Mephy. He can either be very, very good, or be a complete and utter waste of points, depending on both how you use him, and how your opponents respond to him. this example gets better and better! Now its mephy charges into space wolf squad A and then gets assaulted by spacewolf Squad B with arjac in it. So 2 squads of wolves plus a character vs meph, seriosuly mate think about it. Ok, so lets say your two squads of spacewolves are grey hunters and I just have 1 not 2 squads of assault marines. I charge your first grey hunter squad with meph and assault squad wipe it out pretty easily then use my consolidate move to surround meph. yep looks like your 2 squads plus arjac still cant make combat with meph what now you need a third squad to pull the assault squad from around meph to be able to charge him with arjac and friends? Seriously you assume the controlling BA player is a moron. If I dont want meph to fight Arjac he wont. My speed is too good dmg is too good, really meph is too good. It will take alot for arjac to find meph on the battlefield against a good player. ^| | | Erm... Lulwat? its called rules lawyering, it may not be the most perfect but by definition it's the most correct. If it still boggles your mind, don't stress over it, some people just cant comprehend things if GW cant write it in plane english for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Hoo-kay. I was referring to given strategies against Meph, as he's notoriously easy for Wolves (in particular) to neutralize. That includes counter-assault, no matter what Meph is supported with. He could have five Veteran Assault Squads with him for all I care, and the tactic would be solid in a Block-Up strategy set. This isn't the place to apparently argue strategy against him, though, so I'm not going to. In regards to the "Lulwat"... Your post was completely random and discussed something about random selections, targeting vehicles, et cetera, all of which... Unless I'm being obtuse against my will... had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. And if you feel like getting snarky, I can get snarky; I was requesting clarification in regards to your post, and you insisted upon making it rather personal. I can reciprocate if you wish, but I would prefer you just to look at that post you made and either edit it to make some amount of sense in context to the discussion at hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookielips Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Mephiston is to WH40k as Lebron James is to the NBA.When he rocks, he rolls. When he sucks, it can pull your whole list down. im sig'in this if you don't mind. so true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookielips Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 C On your turn you charge use no psychic powers average 1.5 wounds on the swarmlord after invuns then you have 3 chances to pass your psychic test, easy. On average you should only need 2. *if you use none of meph's 3 power uses, you actually get 4 (FOUR) psychic weapon chances. they (force weapons) have the same effects as power weapons, but also confer to the wielder one ADDITIONAL psychic power, used in close combat... edit: sorry about the double post Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Hoo-kay. I was referring to given strategies against Meph, as he's notoriously easy for Wolves (in particular) to neutralize. That includes counter-assault, no matter what Meph is supported with. He could have five Veteran Assault Squads with him for all I care, and the tactic would be solid in a Block-Up strategy set. This isn't the place to apparently argue strategy against him, though, so I'm not going to. In regards to the "Lulwat"... Your post was completely random and discussed something about random selections, targeting vehicles, et cetera, all of which... Unless I'm being obtuse against my will... had nothing to do with the conversation at hand. And if you feel like getting snarky, I can get snarky; I was requesting clarification in regards to your post, and you insisted upon making it rather personal. I can reciprocate if you wish, but I would prefer you just to look at that post you made and either edit it to make some amount of sense in context to the discussion at hand. If you follow the thread it isnt hard to see that the post was relevant to the death leaper reference that was being discussed above. Sorry for the personal attack but if it's too hard for you to follow the thread then my statement stands. Though it wouldnt have hurt me to quote the post it was in response to so i'll take that slap on the face. In regards to your claim for not discussing tactics against meph, well you kind of already are as soon as you say, "well i do this with arjac and squad backing up this squad yadda yadda". I was merely pointing out how obtuse that scenareo you preseted was. Not that SW cant deal with wolves or that counter assaulting him wont necassarily work, just that the specific example you suggested was not a good way to show how arjac "makes baby Meph cry". I woke up to no milk in the house so thats also a bad start to my day. haha. Sry for my 'snappy' remark however my post was relevant to something in this thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Heh. Aye, after reading, I can see that. My apologies for the quasi-return-snark as well, for had I been reading beyond the track in which I was involved, I would have seen that. No worries! I'm the same way if there's no coffee, so it's fully understandable. Shall we return to our respective corners and take a breather for now? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/198304-mephiston/page/4/#findComment-2412446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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