Mephiston

[Morticon]

Thats very counter-intuitive and seems so obviously against the intent, but...doesnt seem to be whats written.

 

oh well.

[Spacefrisian]

Mort I think he means the whole "Blah blah 2++ against force weapons and Psy powers" since it doesnot say whether the force weapons are just the ID effect or all attacks made since mephy is using a force weapon. I say he only gets the 2++ against the ID effect of the Force weapon since its only Psyker like when he is doing his your gonna die power.

The problem with this is Skulltaker is immune to the instant kill as a demon. The 2++ against force weapons is useless unless it applies to wounds caused by forceweapons.

 

 

So Mephiston uses his plasmapistol to strike in youre oppinion? And not his Forceweapon so you can ignore the 2++ vs force weapons thingy.

[Morticon]

So Mephiston uses his plasmapistol to strike in youre oppinion? And not his Forceweapon so you can ignore the 2++ vs force weapons thingy.

 

No, what he's saying is he still uses his forceweapon, the difference is that he can only use the 2++ against the Force Weapons Instant Death ability - the Force Weapon isnt a psychic attack - the Force Weapon Instant Death power is.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Mort, I agree that it doesn't seem RAI but it hasn't been errata'd either way yet.. and that seems to be RAW, or do you see a hole in my logic?

[Morticon]

Mort, I agree that it doesn't seem RAI but it hasn't been errata'd either way yet.. and that seems to be RAW, or do you see a hole in my logic?

 

Not at all matey -im reluctantly agreeing with you :D

 

I think thats the way it should be played cause thats how its written.

Just sucks for our jumpers :P .

I will however take solace in the fact that since our Jump Packers, whether walking or running into terrain will take DT tests, Mephiston doesnt take those DT tests .

So, that "dirty feeling" does disappear! B)

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Yeah, I felt pretty good about that too.. until I realized that they're negating his powers on a 3 or 4+!

[JamesI]

Jump Infantry walking in terrain do not take dangerous terrain test (the Space wolf psychic power is an exception as it hits Jump Infantry no matter how they move)

 

If Mephiston flies into terrain, he takes the test. If Mephiston is in the range of the Wolf power, he does not test no matter how he moves.

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Jump Infantry walking in terrain do not take dangerous terrain test (the Space wolf psychic power is an exception as it hits Jump Infantry no matter how they move)

 

If Mephiston flies into terrain, he takes the test. If Mephiston is in the range of the Wolf power, he does not test no matter how he moves.

Reason I asked is because this came up with a Blood Angels player at my local store. He initially avoided having his jump troops avoiding the test by walking. And saying that it only counted as for Mephiston. I had found that he had handled it wrong on the first issue,I wanted to try and find out if he handled it wrong on the second one as well. And as for the 4+ countering...You guys do that with your Psychic hood too.

[JamesI]

Jump Infantry walking in terrain do not take dangerous terrain test (the Space wolf psychic power is an exception as it hits Jump Infantry no matter how they move)

 

If Mephiston flies into terrain, he takes the test. If Mephiston is in the range of the Wolf power, he does not test no matter how he moves.

Reason I asked is because this came up with a Blood Angels player at my local store. He initially avoided having his jump troops avoiding the test by walking. And saying that it only counted as for Mephiston. I had found that he had handled it wrong on the first issue,I wanted to try and find out if he handled it wrong on the second one as well. And as for the 4+ countering...You guys do that with your Psychic hood too.

Our hoods aren't quite as good as we have to beat the opponents roll (Leadership +d6, ties go to our opponent)

 

Jump infantry are still jump infantry if they walk (so they are affected by Tempest's wrath and immune to Jaws). Mephiston is Infantry whether he casts Wings or not (immune to Tempest's Wrath but vulnerable to Jaws)

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Jump Infantry walking in terrain do not take dangerous terrain test (the Space wolf psychic power is an exception as it hits Jump Infantry no matter how they move)

 

If Mephiston flies into terrain, he takes the test. If Mephiston is in the range of the Wolf power, he does not test no matter how he moves.

Reason I asked is because this came up with a Blood Angels player at my local store. He initially avoided having his jump troops avoiding the test by walking. And saying that it only counted as for Mephiston. I had found that he had handled it wrong on the first issue,I wanted to try and find out if he handled it wrong on the second one as well. And as for the 4+ countering...You guys do that with your Psychic hood too.

Our hoods aren't quite as good as we have to beat the opponents roll (Leadership +d6, ties go to our opponent)

 

Jump infantry are still jump infantry if they walk (so they are affected by Tempest's wrath and immune to Jaws). Mephiston is Infantry whether he casts Wings or not (immune to Tempest's Wrath but vulnerable to Jaws)

ties go to the Psyker casting? Well yet another example of this Player 'forgetting' rules whenever they would work against him. Ok so our Psyker defense works slightly better,Now that I know how the BA one is supposed to work. Yeah...technically vulnerable to Jaws,but it doesn't tend to work that way that often. Unless you can get Meph to charge you and get a hit with a TH on him.

[JamesI]

Jump Infantry walking in terrain do not take dangerous terrain test (the Space wolf psychic power is an exception as it hits Jump Infantry no matter how they move)

 

If Mephiston flies into terrain, he takes the test. If Mephiston is in the range of the Wolf power, he does not test no matter how he moves.

Reason I asked is because this came up with a Blood Angels player at my local store. He initially avoided having his jump troops avoiding the test by walking. And saying that it only counted as for Mephiston. I had found that he had handled it wrong on the first issue,I wanted to try and find out if he handled it wrong on the second one as well. And as for the 4+ countering...You guys do that with your Psychic hood too.

Our hoods aren't quite as good as we have to beat the opponents roll (Leadership +d6, ties go to our opponent)

 

Jump infantry are still jump infantry if they walk (so they are affected by Tempest's wrath and immune to Jaws). Mephiston is Infantry whether he casts Wings or not (immune to Tempest's Wrath but vulnerable to Jaws)

ties go to the Psyker casting? Well yet another example of this Player 'forgetting' rules whenever they would work against him. Ok so our Psyker defense works slightly better,Now that I know how the BA one is supposed to work. Yeah...technically vulnerable to Jaws,but it doesn't tend to work that way that often. Unless you can get Meph to charge you and get a hit with a TH on him.

True, Mephiston won't die often to Jaws, but it can happen.

[Crynn]

MORT, I ask for your wisdom on this one. I believe that skulltaker or at least a khorne greater daemon can get an ability that gives it a 2++ against any force wepon attack.

 

A. Is this the case?

 

B. can you show me any justification by RAW rules that would say that against mephistons attacks that the respective khorne unit would be denied this 2++ save?

 

Thanks

[Morticon]

MORT, I ask for your wisdom on this one. I believe that skulltaker or at least a khorne greater daemon can get an ability that gives it a 2++ against any force wepon attack.

 

A. Is this the case?

 

B. can you show me any justification by RAW rules that would say that against mephistons attacks that the respective khorne unit would be denied this 2++ save?

 

Thanks

 

 

I think this was covered already, bro. But, also- dont default to my opinion. There may be people with more experience/better ideas on this than I, so- guys if you know- feel free to weigh in here.

 

I'm working on the assumption that the 2++ is against all psychic powers that effect the bearer of the save.

 

A: This is not true from a Force Weapon attack. (Based on: pg 50 "They have the same effects as power weapons.." )

It is however true that he will get a 2++ from the Force Weapon's psychic power that cases instant death. (Based on Pg50: They..also confer to the wielder one additional psychic power, used in close combat). Which incidentally he doesnt need since he's immune to Instant Death.

 

B: As above.

 

The FW is a power weapon but with an added psychic ability. The 2++ save (im assuming) ignores all psychic abilities - it doesnt ignore power weapon attacks.

 

There are also some that would argue to use this against our Librarian's Sword of Sanguinius power- which is also nonsense. Its a power that effects our librarian, not the bearer of the save.

 

If this was the case, then any attacks at all from a psyker could be arguable as using the 2++. And anything that effects the army at all would be arguable to a 2++. Thats just not the case.

 

 

Hope that helps.

[banis]

The Blessing of the blood god gives a 2+inv save vs wounds caused by psychic powers and force weapons.

I would argue, and you can be sure the daemon player will. That he gets a 2+ save vs Mephiston.

It is true that it says under force weapon that it has the effect of a power weapon. But that is not the same as saying that it is a power weapon.

 

The RAW is pretty clear IMHO. 2+ save vs any wounds caused by force weapons.

Saying that it only works vs the instant death power would be going into RAI, and that would not make sense since the daemon is immune to the instant death effect anyways.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

If the thing says 2+ vs. Force Weapons, then it's a 2+ vs. Force Weapons. No question about it.

[DetholicHawk]

"The Daemon has a 2+ invulnerable save against any wounds caused by psychic powers or force weapons"

 

Any wounds. Pretty clear.

[Morticon]

"The Daemon has a 2+ invulnerable save against any wounds caused by psychic powers or force weapons"

 

Any wounds. Pretty clear.

 

 

If thats the rule, then its signed, sealed and delivered lads.

[Amsoly]

Sigh. Old khorne rules which made them the only demons not rocked by force weapons. Yet now they are worthless against them now. Wonderful

 

on a side not: Mephiston is most likely a descendant of David Bowie.

 

Discuss.

[Spacefrisian]

I like it when we get on the same page on the Blessing of the Bloodgod, always handy having the dex at hand. (like i always have)

[Crynn]

thanks for clarrifacation on that one guys, it would seem my nightmares are true, poor mephy, he aint killing no blood thirster now, pitty you cant just run into combat and whip them with his plasma pistol

[teeef]

330

 

Damn- that also means ive been playing jump infantry wrong for years now.

 

If you walk into DT, youre still liable for dangerous tests. Kinda sucky.

Actually I think this is wrong.

 

"Jump Infantry can use their jump packs (or equivalent) and move up to 12" in the Movement phase. This is optional and they can choose to move as normal infantry if they wish."

 

So, RAW you can move as normal infantry if you wish.

 

"When using jump packs, they can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

 

You cannot pull the "However" sentence out of the book on its own and make the claim that even when moving as normal infantry they would take the test because that would be incorrect grammar.

 

The sentence begins with "However,…." The comma is important because "however" used in this way is a conjunctive adverb. So even though it is in a separate sentence it is, by the rules of grammar, modifying the preceding sentence. Simply, this means that the "however" sentence only applies or has meaning "When using jump packs…" and cannot stand alone.

 

Like a lot of 40K you can always argue over the meaning of a sentence by taking it out of context but in this case it is incorrect grammatically and further that is really distorting the paragraph as a whole – taking weight off the first part and moving it to the last. If you are moving as normal infantry you follow the rules of normal infantry.

 

This does not clear up the arguments about wings and/or librarian wing-like powers as those models are neither using jump packs nor moving jump infantry models.

[SamaNagol]

Do Chaos Lords with Wings have to test for difficult terrain?

[Firedrake28]

Do Chaos Lords with Wings have to test for difficult terrain?

 

 

They do according to the INAT3.3, though I suppose that can mean very little to some.

[Knyx]

So, whats to stop you from just casting Sword of Sang on Meph for Strength 10, giving Meph base Strength 10. Which neither targets the Daemon nor does any Psychic wounds to them. and saying "Mephiston chooses to use his Plasma Pistol for every attack" ?

In the same way a Libby Dread would choose to use its Claw or Force Weapon, and in choosing the claw gives up the ability to use the soul explode for that attack.

 

Its really unnecessary to try to explode things when you can generally kill them outright anyways.

[Crynn]

330

 

Damn- that also means ive been playing jump infantry wrong for years now.

 

If you walk into DT, youre still liable for dangerous tests. Kinda sucky.

Actually I think this is wrong.

 

"Jump Infantry can use their jump packs (or equivalent) and move up to 12" in the Movement phase. This is optional and they can choose to move as normal infantry if they wish."

 

So, RAW you can move as normal infantry if you wish.

 

"When using jump packs, they can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

 

You cannot pull the "However" sentence out of the book on its own and make the claim that even when moving as normal infantry they would take the test because that would be incorrect grammar.

 

The sentence begins with "However,…." The comma is important because "however" used in this way is a conjunctive adverb. So even though it is in a separate sentence it is, by the rules of grammar, modifying the preceding sentence. Simply, this means that the "however" sentence only applies or has meaning "When using jump packs…" and cannot stand alone.

 

Like a lot of 40K you can always argue over the meaning of a sentence by taking it out of context but in this case it is incorrect grammatically and further that is really distorting the paragraph as a whole – taking weight off the first part and moving it to the last. If you are moving as normal infantry you follow the rules of normal infantry.

 

This does not clear up the arguments about wings and/or librarian wing-like powers as those models are neither using jump packs nor moving jump infantry models.

 

Ok checked and doubled checked the wording and you ude of the english language and you are indeed correct. By RAW definition that is exactly how it should be played and while there is always room to say "this is what the designers meant" RAW is the only way that rules cannot be argued and is fair, which is why i play it down to the 'T', no arguements that way. Fantastic post TEEEF, keep it up.